Well explained buddy, and good research !

I really was in no doubt whatsoever ! It just did'nt add up (5W-30 et al) in my opinion.

I also think SEVERAL members who simply ignore "Oil Threads" are of our and BMW's thinking too !

Long Live TWS !

 

Thanks for the effort - kinda confirms what has been suggested in those fun oil threads...

T W S cherrsagai

BUT - oil threads, tragically, will never end... :1zhelp: h: :crying: ouich

 

yeah. Cheers for that. Nice to see someone at the dealers with a healthy interest too for a change. Thats settled it then 10 60, as per always!!!

 

Castrol TWS 10W60

Godo reasearch, thank you!

 

I knew it. Glad I've been using 10-60 since new

 

+1.

 

So does this REALLY mean there will be no more oil threads now that it is settled? My money is on seeing another one by the end of the week?

 

Then reply with this thread.

In a corteous manner :grinyes:

 

I just got my M5 some 6 weeks ago and the former owner religiously went by BMW recommendation (10-60). As will I. Thank you for hound dogging this oil question for all of us!

 

Hey Gustav, how about making this a sticky? I mean, it would be fairly accessible. Oh and make it bold and bigger type (nothing less than 72 points).

 

:grinyes: 72 points!

 

excellent thread.

+1 on sticky.

 

Nice work and thanks! Finally an oil thread with some interesting information.

A few things still seem strange. First, it is odd that BMW would change S62 oil recs due to market pressures as most (? all) other recent M cars (presumably subject to the same marketing pressures) use TWS. Second, as has been well-documented on the board, BMW-spec Castrol 5-30 is not the same as regular Castrol 5-30 (the BMW-spec acting more like a 0-40 oil as I recall). So, consumers still can't just stop anywhere and get the recommended 5-30 oil.

None the less, thanks for doing the leg work and posting. Interesting to see how unclear this is even deep within BMW!

 

Good work Sherlock!

 

Gustav, Positive intentions meant in my post thinking we finally have the answer. Much thanks to 100% Cocoa for his diligence in researching this! Thanks again for sharing what you found.

 

Rant Disclaimer!

Its these same market pressures that are going to produce Mpowered SUVs. Will the next M3 be a hybrid with 20 cupholders and a flip down rear TV for the kids in the back seat? Its the people that buy Mcars as status symbols and not for their driving capabilities that ruin it for the rest of us. I want to vomit every time I see an Mcar rolling around on cheap all-season tires, or on 20"+ rimzzzz. They are also the same people who use regular gas in their Mcars and get their oil changed at jiffylube with generic oil.

End Rant.


Excellent research BTW. Im glad we could get some concrete history on the issue.

 

Thanks for your effort and time for adding another input.Despite all the oil threads i still use 10W-60, i wonder what Douglas's reaction will be? Once again this doesn't prove anything 100% but i think the scales are on the side of TWS 10W-60.

 

OK...so let me get this straight.

Due to customer complaints the engineers were called upon to do "something" to stop the M5 from using so much oil. Oil that had to be gotten at a dealership. The solution was a "secret" piston ring redesign in the middle of the production run. Once complete the engineers still continued to call TWS the oil of choice. In other words tighter rings (for oil consumption) had no effect on their firm recommendation to use TWS for the rest of the motor.

Also during this time of complaints the marketing dept. was looking for a way to make it easier for owners to get the "right" oil without having to visit a dealership. Once the redesign took place the marketing dept. realized newer M's used less oil so it could be recommended to use a thinner oil like 5W-30? So the oil consumption "fix" was used as an opportunity to expand the ease with which owners could get oil for topping up (which they no longer needed by the way) by expanding their options to 5W-30?

That's kinda what I'm seeing...does that sound right?

If that's about right I guess TWS really is and has been the oil of choice all along. Two separate issues were combined making it look as if you have the newer rings then suddenly the rest of your motor (which never changed) no longer needs TWS.

Seems the marketing dept. used the redesign as a chance to switch the recommendation to a lighter oil in newer M's knowing the tighter rings are stopping consumption (this gets most "I don't wanna go to the dealership" complainers off their backs), but in reality was it a case of the barn door being closed after the horses had gotten out? Because after all the redesign did pretty much fix the consumption problem...did it not? If you have new rings and are no longer consuming there's no need to tell people they can use 5W-30 for topping up...they shouldn't even need topping up at all.

Right?

 

Erm, from all my conversations with Alex, followed by his email, that's pretty much it, yes. :M5thumbs: I never quite figured why they were so funny about the ring change documentation though, or the general cagey-ness of the whole situation. Maybe they just really did lose the paperwork and were embarassed?!

 

I think they switched to 5w30 when BMW started paying for maintenance. Hence the Marketing decision to state all BMWs can use the 5w30.....I dont think it has anything to do with making oil more available.

The piston ring redesign isnt rocket science. They just tightened up the tolerances in the engine.

 

I think they switched to 5w30 when BMW started paying for maintenance. Hence the Marketing decision to state all BMWs can use the 5w30.....I dont think it has anything to do with making oil more available.

+1 imho I just dont see bmw really caring if the recommended oil is easily available or if i have to get it from them as much of an issue. Atleast thats the impression I have always gotten in dealings with them. Yes I do run tws.

 

As I posted recently on another oil thread, it would be really interesting to see pictures of removed Vanos Adjustment Units, for a refurb for example (from members running 5W-30 and TWS alike) to see if they looked as "fouled up", or not as "fouled up", as the ones in the pictures in the link below :

Z8's Oil is Castrol TWS 10-60 - BMW Z8 Board

An excerpt :

"BMW Z8 Club recommendation on CASTROL TWS 10W-60

In Europe several Z8 owners have had an engine failure because of both cooling problems AND problems because the wrong oil and additives were used.
You can easily see the difference in using BMW recommended oil on the attached picture of the VANOS units which ran about 60.000 miles. The unit on top got only CASTROL TWS 10W-60, which has a special recommendation from BMW AG, the unit below ran with BMW 5-30 oil.

At a BMW Z8 Club event in Munich the gentleman who designed the motor at BMW told the Club directly he would only recommend to use the CASTROL TWS 10W-60 in our motor.

There has been some confusion about this because BMW NA issued oil recommendations for the thinner oil 5-30 oil when the car was released. All these early 'official' BMW NA notices are should be disregarded, Castrol TWS 10-60 is the ONLY oil to put into our cars."

Thanks

Kumaran

 

I think we're getting enough information where a reasonable and prudent person could conclude that maybe we better use use the BMW recommended oil. I know oil threads can be frustrating and boring to some people, but it is the most important thing we could possibly be talking about. A short analogy...I have two BMW bikes (K-1200LTC and R-1150GS), and there are endless threads on.....OIL! And people are challenging BMW information on what they should use. They're trying to save 50 cents a quart by buying oil from a cheap major retail chain. Or, they say it's easier to use car oil in lieu of motorcycle oil, and brag that they haven't had any problem....yet! Of course, it's a free world and people can put olive oil in their engines if they want. For me, I'm not going to second-guess the factory that makes the some of the best and most reliable 2-and-4 wheeled vehicles in the world. I know BMW doesn't do everything right, and they even refuse to step up and admit it when they screw up some things, but for this peanut-brain to not use their recommended oil, for me at least, it just isn't going to happen. Whether I take my M5 to the dealer or to my indy, I trust they will use the OEM recommended oil, and I'll sleep soundly at night knowing that. But, far be it from me to tell anyone else what to do. Ciao!

 

If you use the oil specified by BMW for a March 2000 on E39 M5, then in all probability you'll be using the WRONG oil!

 

So.......do not follow the manufacturer's recommendations?

 

RichardP.....what oil would you recommend for an E39 2000 M5? Thanks.

 

I just looked at the production date of my 2000 M5, and it was on November 1, 1999. What oil to use?

 

Frankly I just dont buy it. I doubt there has ever been even 1 M5 that was damaged by the owner putting in the specified oil!

If anyone can present some evidence of damage I would be very interested

 

See the first post of this thread!

TWS.

BMW will say you should use Castrol SLX Professional Longtec 5W-30for a post March 2000 car.

 

actually bmw say you need to use an ll01 for cars post march 2000, there is a long list of oils that are compatible with this, as I am sure you know.

That is not however what i saying above, so i'll clarify: I dont belive that using any oil other than TWS will cause any damage whatsoever, as long as you stay within the recomended viscosity. I would be very happy to change my mind if someone can provide mit with even a shred of feasible evidence which shows the contrary

 

Gentlemen, at my age sometimes things become fuzzy, but going back to the opening thread of this conversation, in paragraph 3, does it not state that the factory says "...it is 10W60 or nothing, regardless of the pre or post 2000 year..."?

 

perhaps or maybe perhaps not, i know what it says in the TIS and in the operating manual of my car....