[nebpor]

Cyrus, did you map the chip, THEN add the airbox, or was the chip mapped with the airbox on the car?

I know you know this, asking for the benefit of others - if you've substancially changed the induction I'd expect you to be able to map with quite a bit more fuel once it was on

 

[Cyrus]

Cyrus, did you map the chip, THEN add the airbox, or was the chip mapped with the airbox on the car?

I know you know this, asking for the benefit of others - if you've substancially changed the induction I'd expect you to be able to map with quite a bit more fuel once it was on

The chip is just something I had and decided to fit it. No mapping has been done to suit yet.

The chips ignition map is probably one of the best out there but still way out from optimal for most load sites.

I am just waiting for my Dastek Uni-Q to arrive and then I will live remap the car properly for fuel and timing for approx 260-300 load sites. This will take me around 8 hours. I'll post the dyno results but this will only give the results for 28 of those load sites! To really appreciate how the car drives after tha changes you'll need to come and drive it. A properly live mapped car is very impressive.....especially S38's, S14's and S50 engines.

 

[Cyrus]

Did you post the wrong graph there Cyrus? That one reads Flywheel power.

Here was my latest graph for my 3.6 with S38B38 cam gears, EAT chip and Eisenmann rear box, 192rwkW (257rwhp):

No, that's the right graph. I can quite easily post the correlating wheel power and wheel torque graphs also. They will show the exact same gains.

Just for reference my car started with 274 rwhp and ended up with 283 rwhp.

To get 257 rwhp from a 3.6 is pretty damn good! That's approximately 310-320bhp at the crank.

More importantly the shape of your graph is very good. A nice full power delivery. I would expect your car to be pretty quick on the road with a nice delivery under full load.

 

[nebpor]

The chip is just something I had and decided to fit it. No mapping has been done to suit yet.

The chips ignition map is probably one of the best out there but still way out from optimal for most load sites.

I am just waiting for my Dastek Uni-Q to arrive and then I will live remap the car properly for fuel and timing for approx 260-300 load sites. This will take me around 8 hours. I'll post the dyno results but this will only give the results for 28 of those load sites! To really appreciate how the car drives after tha changes you'll need to come and drive it. A properly live mapped car is very impressive.....especially S38's, S14's and S50 engines.

What's the Uni-Q? Is that a newer version of the Unichip? Ran a Unichip for years in my highly-modified Honda engine before moving to a "proper" DTA S40 ECU with closed-loop wideband, so I know all about how good a proper live mapped car can be :hihi:

You might want to invest in a proper ECU at some point - for closed loop you just get the ignition timing right then set targets for lambda and the ECU will sort the fuelling out itself, makes it far more efficient overall and saves a wad of part-throttle fuel!

Good luck with it all - I wish I was tinkering with mine, but it's hard enough keeping up with all the important jobs that don't involve engine tuning :applause:

 

[Cyrus]

Nebpor,

I have a good amount of experience with after market ECU's and have a car with MBE management (which is similar if not better than DTA).

On a car with a fairly good ECU like the S38 there is really no gain to be had with after market management. The standard ECU fuels for 14.7 AFR on part load which is pretty much what I would have fuelled for with after market management.

Anyone can bolt on an DTA or MBE, that's easy. Anyone can create a half decent base map. However, mapping the ECU properly to the same level as BMW is nigh on impossible. On the last car I mapped on after market management I found myself doing exactly what a manufacturer would have done. I had to wait for different conditions to arise and then see if the car still ran smoothly. Cold starts and smooth running under different temperatures is not easy to do properly. Then, different altitudes is the hardest part. You have to physically go to different places to see if any of the compensation maps need adjusting.

You finally end up with a car that basically does not run as consistently as one with a standard ECU.

The standard ECU has more than enough resolution so you can't really gain anything there either.

Aftermarket allows you to have different engine setup strategies such as running without MAF but my experimentation clearly showed me there is no gain from losing the MAF on it's own.

After market management is used in two scenarios generally:

1) Where the tuner cannot tune the standard ECU
2) The engines is so vastly modified that the standard ECU just is not good enough (rarely!)

The Uni-Q is the new generation of Unichip made by Dastek. It is completely different to the old stuff. I had a chance to get the old one but was never overly impressed. The new one however caught my eye so I decided to take it on and it's the best decision I have ever made.

Cars can retain their standard ECU and along with it all of massive amount of development given to the mapping and be live mapped.

You can convert a MAF based car to run pure AlphaN or MAP sensor so FI conversions are not a problem. There is almost more resolution than most standard ECU's so that's not a problem either.

Best thing....you can have upto 5 switchable maps. You can use that for almost anything! You can have a map for every gear if you wire in switches to the gear shifter (this is massive over kill), you can have a standard map, tuned map, maps with different boost levels and loads of other differently configured maps. You can have a wife map too which limits rpms to 3000rpm and take out all of the power!:7:

I have already done trials on E46 M3's and E39 M5's and it's excellent.

 

[WMWNWMN]

That carbon airbox will be so loud on an S38 engine that would think it would be pretty much impossible to run the car as a daily driver.

not true, the car is a complete gentleman while cruising.

under load, only my friends 280hp 2.5L S14 w/ carbon airbox makes a better noise. the sound is simply orgasmic.

my tired old beast with 278,xxxkm on the clock dyno'd 335hp at maiti racing (the porsche place that always wins the 24 hour race) and 348hp after the airbox and quick tune.

I want to fit cams and a custom mapped chip as well as a good tune someday. that'd be fun.


but again i can drive the car to work everyday and it's not obnoxious at all.

 

[Cyrus]

WMWM...

That is surprising!

I would have thought the S38 would have been louder than an S14 with an airbox.

The dyno figures are not so impressive given the amount of work done though.

I have seen +10 BHP from a quick tune on an S38 with just some changes to the ignition map.

My little carbon intake muffler is effing loud and gains 3 bhp.

There may well be loads more power to come from you engine with that airbox though. Have you kept the MAF?
If not, how has the ECU been configured to run without one?

Schrick cams - join the club, I want a set too but I have concerns about future valve clearance adjustment problems they cause.

 

[nebpor]

You're once again focussing on peak power gains - it's the rest of the curve that affects the real world - what is the difference in overall area apart from the 10BHP at peak? :hihi:

For the record I'd love a carbon airbox, with some mad cams and standalone ECU, but it's easier (although almost as expensive) to do this on my Honda so I do it there instead!

 

[WMWNWMN]

WMWM...

That is surprising!

I would have thought the S38 would have been louder than an S14 with an airbox.

The dyno figures are not so impressive given the amount of work done though.

I have seen +10 BHP from a quick tune on an S38 with just some changes to the ignition map.

My little carbon intake muffler is effing loud and gains 3 bhp.

There may well be loads more power to come from you engine with that airbox though. Have you kept the MAF?
If not, how has the ECU been configured to run without one?

Schrick cams - join the club, I want a set too but I have concerns about future valve clearance adjustment problems they cause.

There are bigger gaps in time between when a value opens on the s14, so u can hear the engine gulp more than on s38. I think its louder than a csl, which is cool, but definetly not louder than a built s14. i never saw the dyno plot, but the car is definetly more fun 2 drive with the box. I should have more pics after this weekend once i get the brakes sorted...

 

[Lantz]

And if you can please post a video, you car is sick and you have the best colour

Lantz

 

[DiegoR]

Hello,

I would like to get a performance chip, I might need to source one from europe, but I'm not sure which is a proven chip, I just want the engine more happy overall and I'm not looking for the last drop of power.

In the other hand, how exactly does work the resonance flap in the intake box? And what's the porpouse of it? It acts just for the noise of the engine breathing at high RPM's or it does work like a variable intake runner to gain lower end torque? Also, someone said you check if it's really working if you rev up the engine past 4K rpm while the hood is open to let you watch it of corse and other says no matter what you do it won't actuate until you put "some load" i.e. drive the car?

Finally, which doesn't have to do anything with this thread, what does the "air pump" these engines has? Create some kind of pressure or just vaccum? What's the porpouse? I hear it being activated every time I start the engine when is cold.

Thanks

 

[mottati]

In the other hand, how exactly does work the resonance flap in the intake box? And what's the porpouse of it? It acts just for the noise of the engine breathing at high RPM's or it does work like a variable intake runner to gain lower end torque? Also, someone said you check if it's really working if you rev up the engine past 4K rpm while the hood is open to let you watch it of corse and other says no matter what you do it won't actuate until you put "some load" i.e. drive the car?

Finally, which doesn't have to do anything with this thread, what does the "air pump" these engines has? Create some kind of pressure or just vaccum? What's the porpouse? I hear it being activated every time I start the engine when is cold.

Thanks

the air pump is an emissions control device. It pumps air into the exhaust during a cold start, combined with the rich cold start mixture, this gets the catalyst up to temp more quickly.

The resonance flap enhances mid range torque, on a 3.8, there is no observable self test (a 3.6 runs a test procedure on each cold star, so you can see that it functions). There are threads about how it works and what controls it. In short, to test it, smear a dab of grease on the 'stop' go out for a WOT run and see if you see a mark in the grease where the little cam hit the stop. Not sure if it will do it's thing just revving without load and the hood up. I believe there is a thread about this with pictures if you run a 'resonance flap' search.