Only 3 and throw a main timing chain tensioner at it if you have not. Most likely no more rattle on start. Pointless anyway. The rattle comes from oil completely draining out of the vanos piston, solenoids are your best bet to prevent this, the oil from the accum takes to long to get there to prevent the rattle.

 

Thanks as always Sailor, though upon further inspection something interesting: my vanos covers seem to have the 4 set screws in front of the solenoids, but I thought this only came on later Vanos versions? Maybe not true though. In any case, I'll def. do the timing chain tensioner first, and then may move on to the solenoids.

 

Oh, and any general preferences on which solenoid seal kit to get?

Beisan Systems - Products
or
https://drvanos.com/collections/s62-v8-m5-z8-vanos/products/m5-o-ring-upgrade-kit
or
other?

 

Other, just get the 2 drings (not a typo they are D shaped and only available at your dealer) per noid and the paper gasket for the cover. Yes you should have the 4 grub screws in your covers by 01/2000, think it was 10 or 11 1999 the change was made.
If you keep the boards in the same place and keep each of the noids in the same location you do not need to touch the grub screws. If you do want to loosen them, take the covers off bake them in the oven at 400 for 20 - 30 mins put then in a vise and use an impact to remove/Loosen them.

 

thanks

 

So the BMW d-rings appear to be equally expensive as the aftermarket viton o-rings; given that the price is a wash, which is 'better'?

 

The BMW D-rings are IMHO the best for the solenoids. For the plunger seals and other o-rings, we generally use Beisan, though Dr. Vanos is substantially the same and we have used its products as well.

--Peter

 

The stock vulcanize to the bore. This is likely better, but it also means you need to replace when they do vulcanize, if removed. Drings also will not be as likely to roll or twist during installation. Not sure there has been anything conclusive about which is better, but my preference is for none rolling because it is a very tight fit.

 

I can speak towards the accumulator upgrade.
I did this on my 2000, and it literally did nothing to help the startup/idle rattle.
I bought all new parts (I think the total was close to $400). Every part of this job is a royal pain, both the accumulator removal/install and fishing the wires to the ECU.

 

Damn, that sucks to hear. I just ordered all of the parts to retrofit new accumulator. Mine is 09/2000, no rattle when cold but very annoying startup rattle when warm.

What's the production date of your car? Maybe you need DME update to activate the function?

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Accum won't fix that. Possible board maintenance will, but in all likelihood you have a pintle in a noid not sealing correctly. Just from experience, sometimes it is just crud so cleaning the noids really well may cure that.

 

I did Vanos solenoid maintenance back in May when I bought the car.

What I gathered from older Vanos accumulator threads is that chances are 50/50 that new accum does the trick. I remember Vantaam5 posts saying that new Vanos spring plates almost always cure the startup rattle.
I have no running issues but I'm planning to overhaul Vanos next winter when I don't drive the car that much.

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The issue with the rattle has always been a lack of oil in the front of the piston in the cars I have worked on. There might be other reasons but that is all I have ever seen. No oil means the piston taps on the cover. If your solenoids don't leak then there will be oil, if they leak there will be none. The oil is the cushion so the piston can't tap on the cover. Even if you have done the maintenance that does not mean that there is not a leaking noid at it's pintle.
Personally I have put 4 accums in for people and none has done anything. If I sort through the noids and put all the ones that leak on the inlet side no more diesel rattle, or very minimal. If I replace all the leaky noids then there is never a rattle. My car gets the boards pulled as soon as I hear a rattle more than once and I always find something. I am in the unusual situation of having more than a few spare noids and diodes around from when I was fixing these boards for people.

 

We are talking just about few seconds startup rattle when the engine is warm, right?
That's the only rattle I'm experiencing at the moment. When it sits overnight and the engine is cold, there's no startup rattle and at idle it sounds normal. Just like every S62 I've heard so far.

My first 05/2000 had the same symptoms, the 2nd 05/2001 had none of this.

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Yep, when the oil is warm it will leak out easier. The reason I know this or discovered it, was when I did boards for people I ended up putting them in my car to test. It was a pain that is why I stopped. My car came with dirty boards I figured out the cleaning/repair procedure and put them back in an all I had on the second warm start was a slight rattle. Thought that was normal. Once I started putting other boards in my car to test I found out it was not normal. Some boards no rattle some different rattles including cold. Any that rattled I knew I had more work to do.
Rattle is a board issue, and the accum was a bandaid fix by BMW that never really worked, fixing the boards works but sometimes that means replacing one or more noids. The noids where never designed for this much work, they are ABS noids. The pintle seal area gets hammered and when there is crud getting hammered often a small leak is created once the crud is removed. It truly is unimportant but the rattle bugs people, it does no harm.

 

Thanks for sharing your experience.

I know that it's harmless, even says that in the BMW service bulletin for the new accumulator but when you park and restart the car later, the racket is unbearable. Funny thing is that it doesn't always happen but rather sometimes.

I already bought parts for the new accum install so I'm committed at this point. I'm curious to experience it firsthand and new parts won't hurt anything else than my wallet.

When I run DIS Vanos test, the bank 2 passes every time while bank 1 fails either at inlet advance or exhaust advance by 0.1-0.2 deg.

I pulled bank 1 solenoids again last week and gave them a good clean to see if it will make any difference. The brake cleaner was shooting out nicely on all 4 solenoids and I used air compressor 115 psi to blow them out. The clicking while opening and closing sounds good to me across the board. Didn't make any difference and test results were the same.

I can try swapping solenoids from bank 2 to bank 1 but this likely has something to do with timing and not solenoids. I have no codes and the car is running perfectly so I'm not gonna chase a problem where there isn't one. DIS test is sensitive anyway and I can try your advice to hold the rpms higher and it might pass but I didn't try this yet.

I'm slowly doing research and collecting notes to overhaul Vanos units next winter, install updated spring plates and check cam timing. Car is at 111k miles and I think it would benefit from this.

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Yeh that small amount is nothing to worry about. Have you replaced your lower timing chain tensioner?

 

I did back in May when I got the car. One of the first things I always replace on an M5. 4 new CPS as well.

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While we're on this topic, is this ~5 degrees of exhaust leak test deviation anything to worry about? This is with freshly rinsed-out solenoids with new seals :/

 

It is enough to make me clean it again and then I would move it to the inlet side and run the test again. Leaky outlets will cause vanos rattle on startup. 5 is significant but not a game breaker.

 

Thanks Sailor, I'll go ahead and do another flush on the bank 2 solenoids, but I don't think I want to mess around with swapping stuff with bank 1 as it passed with great numbers, so don't want to mess with that one! FWIW my hot-start rattle has disappeared after the first solenoid maintenance, so clearly was worth doing. In other good news while I was messing around in DIS, I decided to clear the adaptations, reset the throttle mapping, and balance the idle; holy crap what a difference! Throttle response is immensely crisper and I've also noticed a significant improvement in the torque curve. Now I wish I knew what was 'off' previously that was dragging things down, but oh well, she's a totally different car now and I sure hope she stays that way!

 

More good news, pulled the bank 2 solenoids here this morning and sure enough seemed like there was something stopping up the most-outboard noid. Got it flushed and back on the car, reran test and now passes! Still 3 degrees off, but if that passes the test, good enough for me!

 

Nice. Cleaning the noids will itself give noticeable performance improvement.

 

I have a similar question to this one. Should I start a new thread or add to this one?

I have had a fairly quiet dieseling sound for awhile (when I bought the car there were only clicking noises), but after letting the car sit for a couple of weeks the noise is painfully loud. It doesn't go away when the car is warm, and it hasn't cooled down enough for me to try it cold. It sounds like it is coming from the vanos or maybe the top of the timing chain on bank 1 (right side, passenger side in US). It is almost certainly VANOS-related, from what I have read.

Should I buy the $200 drvanos O-ring upgrade kit, or are more parts needed? The car has > 230K miles so I don't mind doing this as Step 1 in the diagnostic process.

Is there anything I should try that doesn't require buying parts or removing the intake manifold (I really don't want to torque down dozens of bolts twice) ?

 

I have no idea what is in a Dr Vanos kit, but it has way more than you need to start with. All you need to start is a set of Drings and this thread.https://www.m5board.com/vbulletin/e...lletin/e39-m5-e52-z8-discussion/202759-vanos-solenoid-maintenance_full-diy.html
Don't mess with the pistons and other parts until you know the noids are all perfect and doing their jobs.

 

I have no idea what is in a Dr Vanos kit

Just a set of D rings and a gasket.

Thanks, I'll get the rings ordered and test the solenoids while I wait for shipping.

Mark

 

For $200 outrageous. He normally does not sell Drings only the dealers do. He normally had vitron orings, the Drings are better.

 

It does seem a little steep! What is the best source for these parts?

Thanks again,
Mark