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Insight into BMW's failed auto dimming mirrors

48K views 72 replies 46 participants last post by  gsfent  
#1 ·
If your mirror has failed you can contact us at sales@radar-mirror.com to arrange for repair. Please mention you saw it on the M5Board.

We've been integrating radar and laser displays for M5board members for a few years now and within the last couple of months began offering a service to repair the BMW mirrors that are so prone to failing. We've learned a few things over the last few weeks and wanted to pass on some insights about why the mirrors fail and some tips to hopefully limit the damage if your mirror suffers the same fate.

How Auto Dimming Mirrors work

An auto dimming mirror is comprised of two pieces of glass that are sealed together along the edges, a conductive gel is then injected and completely fills the area between the two pieces of glass and then sealed at the injection point. The back of the glass is coated with a silver mirror coating and under normal (non dimming) conditions the gel is completely invisible and transparent. The mirror housing contains an electronic circuit board with photosensors that measure ambient light, one facing toward the front of the car and one facing out the rear window. The forward facing sensor tells the mirror whether it's day or night and enables or disables the auto dimming function accordingly. At night when the rear facing sensor detects light the electronic circuit board will begin applying very low levels of voltage to each piece of glass and the conductive gel will begin to darken - effectively reducing the amount of light that hits the mirror coating and eliminating glare.

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Why the mirrors fail

The vast majority of the mirrors that have experienced failure were produced between the late 90's and mid 2000's by the Magna Donelly Corporation, the supplier at the time for BMW's rear view mirrors. What happens is the seal along the edge of the glass is breached due to a failure in the material and air will begin to make it's way inside and produce the bubble we're all familiar with. Whether the liquid inside the mirror will begin to leak or how long it takes depends largely on where the breach occurred.. if the breach is on the upper side of the mirror it may take a while for any liquid to make it to the bottom of the case and begin to leak out. If the breach is on the lower portion of the mirror the liquid will escape much more rapidly and since it's directly hitting the bottom of the case you may see it leak the same day the seal is breached. There's a popular misconception that the mirrors first fail and then begin to leak over time and this isn't always the case. Once the seal fails the liquid is escaping and simply following the laws of gravity.

What to do if your mirror fails

Remove the mirror from your windshield as soon as possible and get it out of the car, it's best to place the mirror face down on a flat surface. Instructions for removing your mirror HERE. If there is any visible signs of the liquid leaking from the mirror clean it off right away and wrap the mirror with an absorbent towel to avoid or limit damage to the case. Many of the mirrors we receive have some visible damage to the case caused the the liquid and in some examples the damage occurred during shipping to our facility as the mirror gets moved around every which way and causes the liquid to spill faster. If there is any sign of the liquid leaking from your mirror prior to shipment you may wrap the seam of the case with a few layers of paper towels and then wrap with tape. Here are some pictures of mirrors that experienced damage to the case during shipment.

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#2 ·
Very nice write up and description of a common failure to our cars.
I have been meaning to contact someone at radar-mirror to take care of my rear view which has had the bubble since LAST summer. I need to send it in before it gets very hot here in SoCal so I do not risk the liquid spilling out. If I were to send a mirror out on say, a Thursday from Southern California, when would I expect it fixed and returned?
 
#5 ·
Can you repair the wing mirrors too as one of mine looks like it has a bubble.
 
#22 ·
My mirror has been stuck in UK customs since the 26th. :grrrr:

Scott turned it round very quickly but the civil service strike in the UK has not helped it getting back to me.
Did Customs charge you anything Richard?

Scott, Can I take the mirror (glass) out and ship that to you? That way I can fix a mirror of some sort to the plastic housing whilst it's with you?

Steve
 
#10 · (Edited)
Does your repair replace anything on the customer's mirror beyond the gel (e.g. glass)?

Does your repair improve on the factory/original (e.g. better gel, better sealing)?

For those of us without this problem (yet), can you comment as to whether there is a "right" or "wrong" way to grab/adjust the mirror?

Is the factory gel also corrosive to human skin?

Thanks.
 
#13 ·
Does your repair replace anything on the customer's mirror beyond the gel (e.g. glass)?

Does your repair improve on the factory/original (e.g. better gel, better sealing)?

For those of us without this problem (yet), can you comment as to whether there is a "right" or "wrong" way to grab/adjust the mirror?

Is the factory gel also corrosive to human skin?

Thanks.
At the moment we just replace the glass - in most cases this is all that's needed. We're working on acquiring extra cases so we can replace them if needed but that is going to take some time. The replacement glass we use is produced by a different company and *shouldn't* experience failure. If anyone has an issue with a mirror we repaired ship it back and we'll fix it for free for as long as you own the car. Grabbing the mirror should have no effect on what happens to the glass.. the only factor we know contributes to the failure is having the car sit outside in very hot temperatures. My guess is you probably don't want the gel on your skin.

Can we have both the auto dim and radar output in the same mirror. I live where detectors are not suppose to be?
Yes! If your mirror has failed and you want to upgrade to a mirror with a display we will apply the cost of the repair toward an integrated display.
 
#15 ·
email sent and I just removed my mirror... no sign of leaking but the bubble covers almost the entire mirror
 
#21 ·
Sorry we can't repair the side mirrors.

Mine does not have any bubbles, but it does not appear to dim at night. How can I verify if it's working and not just my eyes?
There's an easy way to test the mirror to see if it's working, there's a hole on the back of the mirror that gives access to a light sensor. Make sure the ignition is ON. Cover the hole to block any light from entering and then shine a light at the sensor on the front of the mirror (bottom center). You should see the mirror immediately darken. Make sure you also check the fuse that powers the mirror and make sure it isn't blown.
 
#20 · (Edited)
Mine does not have any bubbles, but it does not appear to dim at night. How can I verify if it's working and not just my eyes?
 
#52 · (Edited)
There's an easy way to test the mirror to see if it's working, there's a hole on the back of the mirror that gives access to a light sensor. Make sure the ignition is ON. Cover the hole to block any light from entering and then shine a light at the sensor on the front of the mirror (bottom center). You should see the mirror immediately darken. Make sure you also check the fuse that powers the mirror and make sure it isn't blown.
I might be your next customer. After reading this thread for the 1st time last night I was comparing my side mirror to my rearview driving home last night. Side mirror seems darker. I was using my cellphone screen (white) in the parking garage before I left trying to trick it (rearview) into darkening. No go. I may have tested it wrong though. Will retry soon.

But, you mention a fuse. Do you (or anyone) know which fuse it is? Also, do you (or anyone) know how the side-mirrors know to dim? Do they all run off the rearviews sensors? If they do I'm assuming the rearview can fail, but still pass the signals onto the side mirrors. Am i correct there?
I have no bubbles in my rearview. Didn't know they could fail without the bubble.

P.S. If anyone has a fully operational US passenger-side OEM mirror for a reasonable price please PM me.
 
#23 ·
Yes, customs did charge me 'something'! Basically import duty on the new parts (ValentineOne remote display and controls) and VAT on everything, plus a handling charge, the total was about ÂŁ120 (I can find the exact figure if you want).

The replacement mirror works very well, I think it dims a little quicker than the OEM version and gets a little darker, but that's not a bad thing. The concealed display from the ValentineOne is excellent and totally removes any sign that the ValentineOne is installed - my absolute number one pet hate is wires and stuff attached to the dash and/or windscreen. I've currently only got it connected up to the torch (flash light) supply in the glove box, together with the remote control box. I'm going to install the controls in the dash somewhere probably in the cup holder strip above the lighter socket, or if it won't fit I'll re-use the TM controls that I removed, and free up the space used in the glove box when I get a little spare time.
 
#28 · (Edited)
Rear view mirror fixed!

I just had my rear view mirror fixed by Radar-Mirror.com. This is a wonderful service they provide and I highly recommend having Scott fix your rear view mirror if it has "melted." The cost is very reasonalbe ($99 includes shipping) and the turn around time is incredibly fast. Thank you very much for your all of your help.:goldcup:

The Green Beast
 
#29 ·
I know it's a little late, but a big :thumbsup: to RaceMX-M3 for a great service. I now have an A1 functioning Rear View Mirror.

Turn around was excellent, and saved me a fortune on buying a new one!

Also another big :thumbsup: to RichardP1 for helping me out in the interim!

Thanks Guys.

Steve
 
#34 ·
Works pretty well Alex.

It detects active Gatsos from about 3/4 mile away both front and rear, so gives plenty of warning.

With the V1 turned off you'd never know it was there. The rear head rests house the main detector unit

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The mirror contains the remote display embedded on the right for the UK, normally it would be on the left. The small button to the right of the red alarm light is is the mute button on the remote display.

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I mounted the remote control in the blank space to the right of the cup holders, I detached the controller from the main board and re-connected it up with wires, I think there were 10 wires in total, Scott now provides this service as well.

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When you turn the V1 on the display lights up in the mirror

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This then disappears and just leaves the letter 'U' in the display which indicates that the V1 has been set to Europe mode.

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The background of the U display is not as bright as it shows in the photo, all you can see if the U itself, however IMO it would be better if the display was totally off or just displayed the . to indicate that it was active. I e-mailed Valentine Research and asked if it would be possible to add such a feature, they said that they would ask the software team but I never heard anything more.

The mirror still dims just as the original did, although I'd say it gets darker slightly sooner, you can see it start dipping as soon as the light starts to go even if there is no bright light source behind, but when it's fully dark it only dims when there is a bright light source behind.

The only minor problem I had was that the main control knob on the V1 was being pressed in by the padding in the head rest, this causes the V1 to enter setup mode on power up, so I stuck a piece of fuel hose over the controller to prevent this happening.

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#36 ·
Email sent. :)
 
#38 ·
The Valentine One was ÂŁ399.99.
Replacement dimming glass, remote display and install on the right was $499.
Remote control for the V1 was $49
Install of the V1 in the rear head rest was $50 (usual price $100).
Shipping to the US was about ÂŁ25.
Shipping back from the US was $40
Customs stung me for about ÂŁ120.

So total of ÂŁ544.99 and $638.

The ÂŁ->$ exchange rate at the time was 1.59683 so $638 was ÂŁ399.54, giving a grand total of ÂŁ944.53.

I also replaced all three rear head rests as the leather on the back was dry and cracked from being in the sun, but that's not strictly an expense of doing this, it's just me being fussy, so I'll not include that!