Where did you do your research?
An average joe in a E46 M3 is 7:35 bridge to gantry. E36 328 is 8:24. These are not records just average joe records.
Laptimes
I think if you surf this site you will find faster times than you are quoting.

 

Where did you do your research?
An average joe in a E46 M3 is 7:35 bridge to gantry. E36 328 is 8:24. These are not records just average joe records.
Laptimes
I think if you surf this site you will find faster times than you are quoting.

I didnt research E39 M5's times, just other sporty cars, their times and then equivalent newer cars and their times.

Yes, you are right, all out "fastest" E39 M5 Nurburgring times are much fatser than 8:28, but the particular conversation I talked about was based on a single/same source for lap times of both cars.

The point I tried to make was that the Lap times are too dependent on the available street tires at the time and times set 10 years apart wiull surely be affected by better tires.

 

The Cobalt does weight a considerable amount less than the M5, most likely 800-1000 lbs.
Excessive weight at the track is definitely not fun.

I'm curiously to know how much faster jrhaile's track M5 is over a stock M5 around a track.
He car does weigh about 800 lb less.

 

I think the stock brake pads may have prevented a faster time. There is a clip where Jeremy Clarkson asks Sarbine schmit if she can lap the ring taxi (E39 M5) around the ring in 8:15, to which she replied "Faster!". Of note, is the fact the ring taxis has upgraded Pagid yellow brake pads which presumably will shave significant time off the Norscheliffe's (sp) 168 (iirc) turns.

On 2nd thought, let's just ask Blue Thunder for an out lap!

 

Not sure but Here is a four passenger run in 2002 the camera fell but I think we see the Gantry at 927 and the bridge was 47 so that makes it an 840 and there was a couple of slow spots and this is just a taxi run.
If you want to win arguments get better info than the other guy.
Classic Sabine video from 2002

 

Click the link and read the page. 5th entry

 

Desmo -

I've noticed for a long time that slalom tests and track runs done by magazines are completely based upon tire choice. When Michelin PS2s were first coming out and getting sold on uprated models, all sorts of cars from Boxster S' to Cadillac CTS' were setting absolutely blazing standards in slalom, braking test, and certain track times. Huge differences from competitors and what not. And it almost always came down to tire choice.

That is why a well driven modern-tire-shod e30, e36, 911sc, and so many other cars are still totally competitive. It's only partly that those cars were so good for their time. Mostly it's because it comes down to tires and the ability of the driver to use them.

I say this and I'm not a track hound at all. It's purely observational. I would love to see a magazine take a bunch of classic cars, stick sets of Michelin Super Sports on them, and put them against modern equivalents.

 

Great vid, thanks Sailor

 

I think Desmo should sell his M5 and buy a Cobalt for faster lap times...............

 

lololol

 

put the Michelin PSS and racing pads on it and you'll shave at least 15-20 seconds

 

In my world there really only is BTG . I am from NA. That is what is special about there, lap times can be done and compared on any track.
I searched the cobalt time, the time quoted was a close resemblance of a BTG time.

 

In my world there really only is BTG . I am from NA. That is what is special about there, lap times can be done and compared on any track.
I searched the cobalt time, the time quoted was a close resemblance of a BTG time.

I have no idea what you are going on about in the bold sentence.

BTG laps on the Nurburgring are a shorter version of the track, excluding most of the
end straight, and as a rule of thumb you can add 20 seconds to a BTG lap to get a "full lap" time.

 

I have no idea how it was bold either all I did was type. Probably when I fixed my spelling. I understand the difference, although I thought the time difference was bigger. None the less the times quoted were not supported and differed greatly on the site I chose to reference. The time quoted appeared to be a BTG for the Cobalt and maybe a full lap for the M5. Which is probably why he lost the argument.

 

Sailor, if you look at the M3 lap time and the E36 328i lap times you'll see that the hp and weight figures differ from a standard car somewhat.

The E46 M3 is running Bilstein suspension, performance friction pads,no interior and running Hankook Slicks.

The E36 328i is already 30hp over stock, Toyo R888 tyres, standard exhaust, big bore throttle body with modified inlet manifold, induction kit, GAZ coilover suspension, rollcage, stripped, buckets, harnesses and these are guys over here in the UK who are very good at pedalling and track day regulars. I know them well from a UK forum over here. Do not confuse this with a standard car it is far far from that and weighs considerably less to boot.

BTG times are always affected compared to benched public full laps. As blue thunder said you miss out a lot of the main straight with a BTG.

Some interesting facts about BTG:

• The distance between the gantry and the bridge is almost exactly 1 mile, 1660mtrs.
• It takes a top-end sportscar less than 25 seconds to cover this distance. Most normal cars with a 120mph top speed over 30 seconds.
• A BTG lap isn't just 25 or 30 seconds shorter, as the standing start from the entrance on the main straight adds another 5-6 seconds back on the time for most cars.
• The straight is very bumpy, and is uphill all the way to the bridge.
• Top speed is attained into the dip AFTER the bridge on a flying lap
• On a BTG lap top speed is attained before Schwedenkreuz or in the Foxhole (for lower power cars)

As an original point to the OP though, perhaps tyre tech is playing a large part, but i find in arguments such as this you are simply skewing the information to suit your argument. Yes the E39 COULD be considered as faster all things equal including tyres, but then again, we could then use that counterargument against all lap times gleaned there over th last decade, throwing even more confusion into the mix regarding whats actually faster

 

I think you are right on about the M5 and tires. A perfectly healthy stock M5 with nothing changed other than sticky modern street rubber is going to do WAY better than what was around in 1998. Think if your street tire choices included Yokohama Parada's and Pirelli P7000's. Laughable!

 

8:17

The E39 ring taxi with different brake pads.

 

Found the link, scroll down to questions #5, #20 and #27. Fwiw, I use Pagid Yellow race pads for track and they take me 1 to 2 seconds deeper into the main braking zone on a 1 minute course.

http://www.m5board.com/vbulletin/most-memorable-threads/39033-answers-sabine-ring-taxi-driver.html

 

Hey nice find bimmerule!

This is the video they were talking about, an internet classic. I've watched it too many times to count

edit: the Porsche is a 996.1 GT3 NOT a 911 S (360hp)

<iframe width="960" height="720" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/MaC-0m3141g" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

I love this video! Have often wondered whether it was the late, great, Colin McRae driving the Porsche. Certainly sounds like him, does anyone know???

 

^^ I have never tracked my car but god that looks like SO much fun!

I love how watching the suspension kick, you can tell he is riding the edge of his grip