[mattmartindrift]

it will have pistons and rods

total waste without touching on the engine's weak point.

 

[turbotoaster]

sorry to bring this topic back up, but theres a few questions i wanted to ask.

after owning a 650bhp/1000kg rx7 i decided it was time to get something more comfortable, but still have the ability to see silly fast(just this time with satnav and leather seats)

Hence i thought the M5 would make the perfect machine, surely a 4.9ltr engine would make some big numbers with a bit of boost and still be comfy.

Anyway after looking around it seems everyone is supercharging theres, fair enough i thought, lets look at the power they are making and see if the costs are justified.

Well $7000 and your only making 550bhp, thats not much power at all, the car has been out for 13yrs, surely there must be some people out there making some decent power.

So from what i can see, your looking at $7k for a supercharger, then you will need to plumb in a intercooler and meth so you can run decent boost(allow $2k) then another $3k on manifolds and your looking at maybe 650bhp, but then nobody has gone that far which again suprises me as id always try to cool any compressed air going into an engine.

There seems to be a guy over here in europe who has turbod and intercooled this s62 with a gt4088, and also one with a gt42 but cant seem to find anymore info on it.


I know on this thread people have hinted about the liners not liking the boost.....yet people supercharge them so im unsure of their meaning?

Also they say tuning will be an issue, if you can tune a supercharged one then a turbo is just as easy aslong as you have a reliable wastegate control.



I suppose the question im asking is why hasnt anyone turbod an S62 engine but a few have supercharged.

I looked at it and thought im not spending $3000 on a set of manifolds for 30bhp, for that money ill have a set of manifolds with turbos, pipework and intercooler(and thats in the UK where fabrication is expensive)

Evolve is only a few hours drive away so they can do the tuning(i can tune powerfc from rotary days but im prepared to admit id expect the bmw ecu to be alot more complex) and its just a case of getting some larger fuel injectors, pump and maybe FPR.

You may think a newbie is asking all these questions but I just want to understand what im missing here.

Since I want alot more power and dont think the supercharger way is for me and I build a turbo kit, will this suddenly opens peoples eyes or will I come across some fundental failing in the s62/m5 engine bay that has prevented all attempts in the past

 

[Bimmerbear]

People on here are just content with their lowly superchargers that max out and never make over 700 wheel. Once someone enlightens them with a big power turbo car that makes more power on less boost, things will change.

 

[JChurch]

People on here are just content with their lowly superchargers that max out and never make over 700 wheel. Once someone enlightens them with a big power turbo car that makes more power on less boost, things will change.

Surely you have it in development since it's so easy to do right?

 

[areout]

there is no (reliable, or any for that matter) turbo kit for M5 E39 on the market, and there is a VERY good reason why

furthermore 550-600 crank hp is quite enough for this luxobarge, a little bit faster than new $100K F10, why would you even want more? north of 600 hp also brings traction problems of all sorts and if you want the thing to grip the road you may spend ever more money on chassis than on engine alone...

 

[dan.]

first sensible reply so far well said,infact very well said.

 

[JohnAnthony]

 

[areout]

Cool. It started.

 

[aww-shiet]

I doubt that setup will work long. Your forcing hot air into the engine. The only way it would somehow work is if you have constant ice cold meth getting shot in there. I cant wait to get back in the m5 game and start this project

 

[mattmartindrift]

I doubt that setup will work long. Your forcing hot air into the engine. The only way it would somehow work is if you have constant ice cold meth getting shot in there.....

Depends on the size and boost levels from the turbos. Superchargers get away with this just fine.

 

[tradin1]

On second thought, i'm not even going to bother.

 

[Bimmerbear]

there is no (reliable, or any for that matter) turbo kit for M5 E39 on the market, and there is a VERY good reason why

furthermore 550-600 crank hp is quite enough for this luxobarge, a little bit faster than new $100K F10, why would you even want more? north of 600 hp also brings traction problems of all sorts and if you want the thing to grip the road you may spend ever more money on chassis than on engine alone...

What's the reason? Technically, the hardest part is the tuning. If some guy in the Ukraine can do it on a stock ECU, there has to be a tuner in the US competent enough to do it. The only reason a company like ESS hasn't done it is that it's not profitable given the R&D costs. That's why HPF abandoned the idea. There aren't enough M5 guys who want a turbo to make it something marketable.

 

[tacoma330ci]

To me the issue is one of packaging and cost, and capacity of a stock internals s62 for power... If someone can create slick manifolds and package and route twin turbos, piping, intercooler etc... in a cost effective and efficient manner that's part of the equation. The rest is how to get a stock internals s62 to handle the power potential of twin turbos... This type of setup seems appropriate for sleeved and built S62's running aftermarket ecu's that are easily setup to manage turbo setups. Not saying a talented tuner like evolve couldn't tune the siemens ecu for this, just that a pectel or equivalent is much better suited to it.

When you include the sleeved and forged s62, manifolds, turbos tuning etc... Its easy to see from an economic standpoint why SCing had won out so far.

If someone can come up with a turbo kit that I can track I'm all ears and likely dollars, until then I'll keep my SCer and my 600bhp...

 

[Bimmerbear]

On second thought, i'm not even going to bother.

Oh come on O great one. Please tell us why boost from a supercharger equals power and boost from a turbo equals boom.

 

[tacoma330ci]

Boost from a sc is linear with rpm, boost from a turbo is all the boost once it spools... Its different...

 

[herrubermensch]

Would be great to see a fully built (sleeved and B&B'd) S62 with twin variable geometry turbos in the "v" and managed by a Pectel SQ6M. That would rock.

--Peter

 

[tradin1]

Would be great to see a fully built (sleeved and B&B'd) S62 with twin variable geometry turbos in the "v" and managed by a Pectel SQ6M. That would rock.

--Peter

I wish we had a guy who was willling(or crazy) enough to try that...a lawyer in ny ny comes to mind...

 

[Bimmerbear]

Boost from a sc is linear with rpm, boost from a turbo is all the boost once it spools... Its different...

Well of course it's different, but a turbo you'd put on an M5 wouldn't go from 0 to 8 psi instantly. It would still take a little time to spool. Are you trying to say that the engine couldn't handle the boost earlier in the RPM band?

A supercharged M5 gets peak boost at redline. A twin turbo M5 with the right sized turbos would get that same boost by 3000 RPM at the very latest. If they ran a straight line race, the turbo car would win because it simply makes more power earlier. It's all about the area under that curve. Given all other conditions are constant, per pound of boost, a turbo will always make more power than a supercharger simply due to efficiency.

 

[tradin1]

Well of course it's different, but a turbo you'd put on an M5 wouldn't go from 0 to 8 psi instantly. It would still take a little time to spool. Are you trying to say that the engine couldn't handle the boost earlier in the RPM band?

A supercharged M5 gets peak boost at redline. A twin turbo M5 with the right sized turbos would get that same boost by 3000 RPM at the very latest. If they ran a straight line race, the turbo car would win because it simply makes more power earlier. It's all about the area under that curve. Given all other conditions are constant, per pound of boost, a turbo will always make more power than a supercharger simply due to efficiency.

Thats fine, you still havent addressed the tune. A supercharger isnt too hard because its linear. You always know what you are/will be making. Same rule doesnt apply for a turbo setup(for the most part).

These threads are pointless unless they start with, "I know/have a way to take care of the tuning."

After that its all fabrication, which is the easy part.

-R

 

[tacoma330ci]

Thats fine, you still havent addressed the tune. A supercharger isnt too hard because its linear. You always know what you are/will be making. Same rule doesnt apply for a turbo setup(for the most part).

These threads are pointless unless they start with, "I know/have a way to take care of the tuning."

After that its all fabrication, which is the easy part.

-R

Like Peter said, IF, the car isn't emissions tested and could run on an aftermarket ECU, there are plenty of talented tuners that can tune a twin turbo v8. John Reed Racing down here in Portland does all of Underground's twin turbo lambo's, ferrari's and Audi R8's on Motec boxes...

IF you're looking for a tuner that could do it on the stock ECU, meet emissions and maintain some modicum of driveability (ie not come on like a hammer with turbo spooling up like a 80's 911...) I only know of one guy and he ain't cheap.

So it comes back to what I said before. Packaging and Cost.

And Bimmerbear, I don't think anyone is arguing with you which FI would make more power sooner. Just one right now is relatively cheap and available and the other is a unicorn...