capup,

There IS a service bulletin that notes the change from 5W-30 oil to 10W-60 oil for the M5 as well. In fact, I was also under the impression that the 2002 and 2003 M5's were all supposed to come with 10W-60 oil from the factory. Apparently this was done in order to reduce the burning oil issue. Do a search on here and you'll see what I mean about that.

I'm sticking with the 5W-30 oil since it's thicker viscosity is better for the S62 innards.

 

The windscreen sticker on my 2000 and my 2002 M5 both say to use Castrol 10w/60 oil. Thats what I've been using. The dealer stocks this oil specifically for M car owners and it's the prefered oil for the UK cars. Maybe the cars in the US are being changed over to the same oil as us?

Andy.

 

Man oh man, I've never seen so much confusion (THANKS BMW! ) about what type of oil to use.

If anyone can get a printout of the latest service bulletin, that would be awesome.

-Chris

 

I am really begining to hate BMW!!

I just had my oil changed 2 days ago, and they put in 5-30.
I questioned them on this because I thought the M motor was meant to run on the thicker 10-60 oil, especially in hot SoCal.

They said the noise in my Vanos was something to do with bubbles getting into the oil, so they were putting in thinner oil.

Do you get the feeling our cars are being distrubuted and sold by some ex CIA cronies, there is just so much bullshit, secrecy and lies. This is definatly my last BMW.


grrrrrrr grrrrrrr grrrrrrr grrrrrrr grrrrrrr grrrrrrr grrrrrrr

 

I've always used 5-30w and for 19,000mi. Ive never used oil. I've added, maybe, 1 qt between oil changes. I've changed my oil twice myself and had 1 service with oil change. So, approximately 1 qt. every 7500mi. And I do drive my car hard. 5 full days at various tracks on the west coast and 2 novice schools. Not to mention, fun on the public roads. That's all in 11 months of ownership.
I need to see a copy of this bulletin. Not that I don't believe, Jason, but 10-60w is like water with a little tinge of gold in it. It costs three times as much, and like Jason said, 5-30w is more like "oil".
I know I'm not as confident that I know what to use, now. I'm planning on going to my service dept. Friday and do some research. If I find something concrete I'll share it.

 

Re: I am really begining to hate BMW!!

Wait, I'm confusing myself here.

macfly says that the 5W-30 is thinner and 10W-60 is thicker but capup says its the other way around.

I thought that 5W-30 was thicker and 10W-60 was thinner. Somebody correct me here. I would think that the thicker oil would be better for the engine since it offers more lubrication.

 

The 10W-60 oil is much thicker. With my car the mileage difference is about 1 mpg better with the 5w-30 which they put in at the last oil service and showed me the bulletin that said that was the correct oil for my april build 2000. Anyway apparently BMW has changed their mind again. I was just in for an oil change and they put in the 10W-60. I would definitely use the heavier oil unless you live in a cold climate area. I don't think there's much difference in oil usage between the two, maybe a little more usage with the 5w-30.

 

Lots of theory's here on why they would go back to 10W-60

One says the change is due to BMW having a virtual strangle on synthetic 10W-60 distribution. ($14/quart at my dealer). You can find synthetic 5W-30 almost anywhere.

One says it's due to BMW trying to standardize across the ///M lineup to avoid "future" confusion?

Another might be to prevent oil burning issues seen on much higher mileage test mule M5's.

And an "old timer" might say that synthetic is synthetic when hot. It all flows the same and it all protects just the same. Remember in the 80's when Mobil1 was advertised as the 25,000 mile oil? "Change your filter - keep the oil"

 

I think 5W30 would be appropriate for use during winter and 10W60 better in hot weather and when tracking. My car has seen both viscosities.

Doug

 

I took Performance Center delivery on my '03 last month. A brochure on 5w30 was included in the materials, and Joshua assured me this was the proper spec. There's also a 5w30 label in the engine compartment ... Well, I just looked at the brochure, and I believe it was printed in 2000 -- it still says 6-cylinder M engines also should use 5w30, which has, of course, been countermanded by the home office. I must say, after 1000 miles the Beast hasn't sipped so much as a teaspoonfull. Nonetheless, I'll be sure to harass the SA when I take it in for my 1200 service.
pw

 

Okay now that makes sense. The 5W-30 is thinner in nature which offers less resistance for the mechanical parts but could be more prone to burning oil. The 10W-60 would be more resistant to the burning oil issue.

 

Jason,
I know I'm going out on a limb here but, Alex at Bmw Seattle, and I know you know him, says the 5-30 10-60 or 15-30 designation doesn't mean what it used to. He actually said the nunbers don't mean anything, anymore. He told me the opposite is true in this comparison. That 10-60 is very thin as I posted earlier and 5-30 is more like real oil. I am not an expert by any stretch of the imagination. I'm only going by what I was told by a person in a position of trust. I actually wrote it down as he was explaining it to me so I could relay it to my friend as accurately as possible. I will see him and his car tomorrow and we are going to pull dipsticks and make an educated comparison. I also have respect for the people who post on this board, but I need to see for myself.
Loren

 

Ok,

I did a bit of a research thanks to google.com and came up with this:

From autoeducation.com

" Oils meeting the SAE's low temperature requirements have a "W" after the viscosity rating (example: 10W), and oils that meet the high ratings have no letter (example SAE 30). An oil is rated for viscosity by heating it to a specified temperature, and then allowing it to flow out of a specifically sized hole. Its viscosity rating is determined by the length of time it takes to flow out of the hole. If it flows quickly, it gets a low rating. If it flows slowly, it gets a high rating.

Engines need oil that is thin enough for cold starts, and thick enough when the engine is hot. Since oil gets thinner when heated, and thicker when cooled, most of us use what are called multi-grade, or multi-viscosity oils. These oils meet SAE specifications for the low temperature requirements of a light oil and the high temperature requirements of a heavy oil. You will hear them referred to as multi-viscosity, all-season and all-weather oils. An example is a 10W-30 which is commonly found in stores. When choosing oil, always follow the manufacturer's recommendation."

--------------

According to the statement above, 5W-30 would actually have a lower vicsosity than 10W-60 meaning that the former is actually thinner and the latter is thicker. Might want to show this link to Alex. Not sure why he would tell you that oil viscosity ratings don't mean anything these days.

 

First thing I did when I got my Z8 was change out the oil to 10/60. I was told a year ago about BMW's recommendation to their service people to swap all their M clients engine oil to 10/60. Partly because of all the M3 engines blowing up, and partly because of the oil burning issue. We have a european racing engine here folks, so toss our north american standards out the window.

Macfly, Just a suggestion... I really think you need to find another service center.

:cheers:

 

here we go again. well just to back up what Jason found, Ive used both 10w60 (00 m5) and 5w30 (03 m5/ 00 z8) and the 10w60 is definately thicker (and darker).

as to what I use. I use what the engine sticker says to use. my rationale- they put it there for a reason- just like the sticker on the gas cap that says 91 or higher and unleadded. I am following their instructions.

My SA, who races and builds small race cars, advised me that I needent worry about this unless I was going to do very long streaches at 150 mph. Ive never driven that fast and dont plan to do so anytime soon (I like my license, thank you) I will again revisit this with him and report back to you. But I wont be doing this for a few weeks.

btw- $14 for 10w60?! while thats expensive, my dealer wants $22.50!

 

Hi,
I'm in Switzerland, I just called up my local BMW dealer's top tech guy who said that the only approved oil for E39 M5 was Castrol TWS 10W/60.
So I tried to find that and only found Castrol Formula RS 10W/60 so I called up Castrol Switz.
The salesman confirmed that Castrol & BMW have come to a deal several years back whereas Castrol has developped a new specific oil called TWS to BMW specs initially based on the Formula RS. This oil can only available at BMW dealer - so much for saving on that !!!

Oil filters can be found as OEM from MAN in about any serious part shop (at least here).

Any comments or experiences on this ?

Cheers
Marc:confused3

 

"MEnthusiast here we go again. well just to back up what Jason found, Ive used both 10w60 (00 m5) and 5w30 (03 m5/ 00 z8) and the 10w60 is definately thicker (and darker)."

MEntusiast, doesn't it seem odd that your two cars here have identical motors, yet they are telling you to run different oils?

This seems typical of a company who I'm rapidly loosing faith in. It really does seem like they just don't know what they're doing.grrrrrrr

My instinct would be too use the heavier oil, as I track my car a lot, and drive it enthusiastically. The thinner oil would be good on the shopping / commuting car duty, and if you are never really pushing your motor. Just my $.02 worth.

Loren: Alex is smoking something you don't want to go near, and I'd venture to say take your car near either. An 'expert' who has no greasp on everday practical realities is something to be avioded! :confused3 :confused2

Atomic: thanks, good research, I'll pop that up on bmwz8.us, welcome aboard! :typing:

Lupo: I'm on the case!:cheers:

 

sure does seem odd. thats when I asked my SA about this about 18 months ago. he told me the story he was told was that since we here in the USA complained about the high cost and difficulty of obtaining the 10w60 oil BMW made some minor changes to the engines so they would run on 5w30.

I think we have discovered the weakness of BMW, which is in customer service. it is not that they are bad people or dont try to offer great customer service- my SA is excellent for most things- but what happens is we have a large company and people get confused, etc. I cant tell you how many circular discussions I had with them on what the correct tire pressure was to be on the 00M5 because it said "max pressure" (eg for a full car with 4 passengers) was to be something like 44/48. yet every thing else was in french! My 03 M5 says I should use that 44/48 number. I learned to keep it a little lower, just slightly. Like you, I want to get to the bottom of this. I will make some calls shortly.

 

When I took my M5 in for service a few months ago. I asked them to change my oil/filter despite the fact that my service indicator hadn't gotten to the yellow bar yet. It was already well past a year at the time so my SA (Suzanne) gladly obliged. She went on to mention that I should still leave the service indicator as it is and bring it back when the time comes. I also requested that she use 5W-30 oil and not stick on the new 10W-60 sticker under my hood. I haven't had any issues with burning oil thus so far so I'm sticking with 5W-30 for now. I plan to eventually switch to 10W-60 one of these days. I also had a brief discussion with Suzanne about whether I needed 5W-30 or 10W-60 and she told me that 5W-30 would work best for me with the type of driving that I do. I wonder if she has been hearing stories about me! :hihi:

Seems that I'm becoming more famous than I thought throughout the Puget Sound area. Is that a good or bad thing?

 

BMW Service Information bulletin 11 04 00 (October 2001) [Kudos to Digi for the bulletin reference]

Engine Oil Recommendations: 8 Cylinder Engine (S62)

M5 produced up to 3/00:
Castrol Formula RS SAE 10W-60 or Castrol TWS Motorsport SAE 10W-60 Synthetic Oil
BMW Part Number: 07 51 0 009 420

M5 produced from 3/00, Z8 all:
BMW High Performance Synthetic Oil SAE 5W-30
BMW Part Number: 07 51 0 017 866


If there is a newer bulletin, please post the reference number.

See the oil discussion on the Tips and Tricks forum.

 

MEntusiast, doesn't it seem odd that your two cars here have identical motors, yet they are telling you to run different oils?

The engines aren't identical. There was a ring design change so they wouldn't burn as much oil and use the different weight oil.

 

Could be good, could be bad!

Seems that I'm becoming more famous than I thought throughout the Puget Sound area. Is that a good or bad thing?


If you are usiung the upper portions of your motors abilty, on long, hot, entusiastic drives, and are in general a fellow long distance high speed freak, it could be bad, as the tinner oil won't be giving you fully safety friction factor on long hard days out, track days etc.

If however your rap comes from drag racing rice burners round town, and generally being a hooligan doing shorter fast drives then you'll be good with the thinner oil, as you'll have more effective cold viscosity.

Happy motoring!:cheers:

 

Thanks JFB

That is a good start, but it's a year old, and the thread started with news of a new SIB, so can anyone verify it, and it's number?



Don't we have a single person on the board with access to the BMW database?



I think they should make these SIB's openly available through the Customer Support section of their website. With all the folks online here, and at the other boards, you'd think they'd realize that this is a great way to communicate with thier clients, and build brand loyalty.

Someone there should wake up to the power of these boards as a medium for keeping us, the enthusiasts, enthusiastic about the brand. Just my $.02 again!

 

macfly: Looks like the first category fits more for me. I might have to switch over to 10W-60 soon from the sounds of it. Thanks for the advice!

 

He said this is the oil they use in Germany? (Yea, maybe for some early 2000's)

capup, We're (North America) the only one's who use 5/30. The rest of the world uses 10/60. Why?... Maybe it's due to the fact the we complain too much about the price of oil, rather than be concerned with what's best for our car...