Leakdown test is mission critical for that car.

Make sure the drive belts are still available as well as peripherals associated w/ that SC kit.

Thats fairly low boost, so I feel its a good thing that it has survived that many miles and time. I'd be more concerned if it was a recent job w/ low un-proven miles.

If you do buy that car, you have to assume you'll be the final end-user/owner as the resale value is limited to a car of that nature. And yes, it has been in and out of the market.

Have you driven a well sorted e34 M5 ? If not, do yourself a favor and take one out.

Not quite sure yet, but there's a slight chance I might be selling mine soon. Never thought I would as I really feel I have one of the best running examples in turn-key condition in the USA.

My friend's brother has decided to sell his 993 2S . I've known that car since he bought it new and its one of the few cars I'd give up my M for.

Shoot me a PM if you're interested. Its a well document 91 M5 w/ every record from Day 1 ! Dyno proven, and it came from California where it lived from 1991-2005.

If you search in this board, there are several pics and threads I've authored about it.

 

I have driven and almost purchased several of them. the latest was a 91 with 122K miles and a nicely sorted Dinan stage 2 suspension. It was a good car, but it had a few issues that I wasn't too sure about, and I was not crazy about the BBS RC wheels - I prefer a factory wheel like throwing star on an E34 M5. Few other things about it made it not the right car for me. And also I was a bit concerned about the mileage vs. a lower mileage car.

Then I go and consider a 540i SCed with the same mileage. Haha.

I have another exotic to consider too. 91 535i Dinan turbo. Has about 100K miles and motor rebuilt at 90K, turbo kit added same time. Built by a Dinan tech, so it has the suspension and some nice wheels too. Looks to me in mint condition. And has a killer stereo, which I would like to have. About the same price as a decent stock-ish ~100K mi M5. Fresh motor and suspension and recently done stereo make it pretty interesting to me. Also the 535i is a bit lighter than a M5 or 540i and more importantly has a rack and pinion steering for even better feel and feedback. I hear the turbo cars have a bit of lag, but they run hard and beat a M5 to 60 by a good second or so. 360 or so HP.

 

OK - I checked out the car tonight and took it for a drive. The car is a flat out monster. Much faster than a E34 M5. Likely faster than a E39 M5, or if not at least as fast. Basically the car has E39 M5 capabilities except for sharper handling and way better brakes (brembo 6 pistons up front). The wheels are 18" BBS 3-pc with 245-40-18's all around. The car is supremely planted and well put together. It has a nice lope at idle - you can tell it has bigger cams than stock. The Dinan exhaust is not overly loud - just about right I would say. Very solid and nice car.

And it is in really good shape inside and out too. It has been garage kept it's whole life, and well cared for.

Dinan did all of the mods, except the manual trans was installed at ~110K miles. It was a new M series 6-speed and pro installed. The car has a pretty solid and documented history. First owned by a wealthy local here in the Bay Area. The current owner had it back to Dinan and they remember the car and the owner very well. All receipts for mods and service were kept and the Dinan mods cost somewhere in the $20K neighborhood all told. Original owner had it to ~100K miles. Sold it to a guy in Maine who kept it for about 4 years and logged 18K miles. He swapped the trans because he wanted an AT. The current owner was a friend of the 2nd owner - not really a car guy and doesn't know much about the car. He paid $15K for it 2 years ago and put on 5K miles. He has less than $1K in service - has done everything Dinan recommended, and put brand new tires on it within the last few thousand miles. I told him he got off pretty cheap to own a car like this for 2 years for basically $7-8K of total cost including depreciation. Which is true if you compare the ownership costs of a E39 M5 over the last 2 years, since those resales have taken a good hard hit, and they are not cheap cars to keep running. Main reason he is selling is he isn't really a car guy, and doesn't fit in it very well - he is 6'7". He may look at a E38 740i in a year or two if the economy gets better and his financial situation improves. I think he just wants out of the car for now because it is a pretty big liability if something goes wrong and he hardly drives it. Really nice guy - seemed very honest and straightforward, I trust him.

So I need to think about it for a few days, and if I decide to move forward with it I will have it inspected by Dinan including a leakdown and compression test. Suspension feels tight, I do not think much is wrong there. Electrically everything works. AC blows cold. The car is the real deal.

The only thing holding me back is I need to make sure this is the right stable mate to my S4 daily driver. In some ways it is pretty similar - both are V8, 6speed german sports sedans. Sure - they have different character - the S4 is more modern, so it has a few more features and luxuries like dual climate control, sat radio, built in nav, HID lights, etc. And the S4 is AWD, so it has a different handling and feel. The Dinan 5 handles better, rides nicer and is faster, plus it does offer more feedback. It is kind of like an old(er) school car, but not totally old school like a E30 M3 or 911SC or something.

So where my mind is starting to wander is into something more radically different like a 911 (SC or 3.2 Carrera) or a C5 vette. But where I keep coming back is the tremendous value with this 540i. I mean - sure, there is huge risk that the motor may fail at some point - there is no doubt it will fail eventually. But I should be able to get a few good years out of it, and if it goes I could always part it out and not get too hurt if I am only paying $9K for it. Bigger problem comes if I want to sell it in a few more years with even more miles on it. But there again, wouldn't somebody be willing to take the same risk and buy it for $6K, figuring worse case they lose a couple grand if it dies and they have to part it out? Maybe most people don't look at it like I do - actually, I can rest assured that is true.... :eek7:

And then there is the M5 idea - maybe getting a E34 M5 would be more different than the S4. But that is pretty tough to justify when this car blows an M5 away and is already fully set-up by Dinan just how it should be... All for $9K....

 

Thought you might want this, attached is a Car and Driver article on the Dinan 540i. It is a very nice machine indeed. Good luck I think similar to you and vote get it.

 

Thanks for that. What is funny is, I've been a C&D subscriber for a long time. And I remember reading that article and drooling over that car.

There is a misprint on the 1/4mi, but from the text I gather that it did it in 13.8@106 which is pretty respectable. Not quite E39 territory.

but....

The magazine tested a stage 2 car, the one I drove was stage 3. Which seems to include bigger cams and headers in addition to the exhaust and supercharger. So if stage 2 is 402hp, stage 3 must be 420, 430? Also the car I drove had a 3.15 LSD vs. the stock gearing of 2.71 or so. Which means that car should be capable of dipping well below 5 sec 0-60 and do the 1/4mi near 13flat at 110 or so, meaning it should beat a E39 M5. That is pretty impressive. Seems like kind of a no-brainer decision, eh? :thumbsup:

 

OK - I found the specs for the stage3:

Dinan 540i Supercharger Stage III
439 bhp @ 6,500 rpm
391 lb-ft @ 5,000 rpm (530 Nm)

40 more hp than the stage 2 car in the test...

It has got to be a true 12 second 112mph car.....

 

Sounds like a fantastic buy in that condition. If i was in the States, you'd have to fight me for it!

 

and you haven't bought it yet.... what you waiting for!

 

Sounds like a monster indeed !

Let me play Devils Advocate though....

Power is fun and all that, but after the honeymoon period is over, you want to make sure you can look at that thing every morning and feel it has some staying qualities.

If I had your dilemma, the C5 of all your options would be top of my list followed very closely by an M5.

Its a better chassis if power and handling are what you're really after.

If you do pull the trigger on the Dinan, get someone who knows how to do a true leakdown and comp test. Comp should be wet. Lots of people get it the leakdown wrong.

Take a good sniff and look at the coolant reservoir after running it and letting it cool down. A cold examination isn't as accurate as far as odor and oil film .

Keep us posted.

 

I would have Dinan look it over and do both a leakdown and compression test. I figure they know what they are doing there, and might as well take advantage of the fact they are local to me. Dinan built the car in the first place.

And ya - what is most holding me back is missing the opportunity to get something a bit more radically different from my S4 like a 911 or C5. Clearly the C5 is the value leader between the two with a much more modern chassis and lots of power, but the P car is more nimble, offers more feedback, has a timeless classic good look to it, and will not really depreciate much. C5 is going to continue to drop in price the longer the C6 model years go and start to come down in value themselves.

I am not too worried about the temporary nature of the Dinan car - I know it could be a short ride, but who knows - maybe it has another 40K miles of life in there. Maybe only 20. But at 5-7K / year that is enough to give me a couple fun years of driving it. When the motor does finally go I can either rebuild it, sell the car complete w/o motor - or part it out. Trans and wheels alone would fetch $3500, Dinan stuff has to be worth $1.5K, so even at a worst case scenario of getting $5K for the car as parts - I only lost $4K on the deal. I can totally live with that for a couple years of use. I've lost $12K on my S4 in the last 1.5 years as a point of comparison there...

 

oh my god.... why isnt it in Brazil...?

 

He sold the car to a coworker today. Oh well. I was really leaning towards getting a sports car instead.

Now I am looking at 911's, although I must admit they scare me on the maint and repair side - partially because I know nothing about them. I know a lot more about conventional water cooled engines and they don't seem all that different between a chevy, BMW, audi etc. But an oil cooled P-car. Well - dunno bout that. Neat cars and I've always wanted to own one someday tho....

 

I saw your thread on Rennlist. The M5 is awesome but my 1988 911 is the favorite car of any I've owned. Except for the lack of A/C, it's been as reliable as a Honda and being my daily driver, it gets plenty of action. I could sell the M5 again and likely will at some point but I would never sell the 911 unless I was replacing it with another one. I'm not trying to sell you on a 911. You have to pick the car which best meets your needs. I'm just offering the point that a properly maintained 911 is a thrill to drive and own. I hope to never be without one.

Michael

 

Good input. After some introspection I have determined that a M5 or Dinan 5 is not different enough from my S4 to be interesting. I suffer from auto ADD, and the best way for me to quell that is to have a few very different cars around to drive when the mood strikes. And right now I am thinking that different needs to be something more sporting than an M5 or my S4 for that matter. 911 might be just the ticket. I am also considering getting another C5 vette (I have owned a Z06). Outside possibility is an M3. E46 seems too much like the S4. E36 is a more raw and direct car - OK, not quite like the E30 - but I like cars with power. So if I go that route I would want to put on a Dinan suspension and supercharger. But then I have $20K+ into a old M3 worth $15K at best. Where I can spend $20K on a 911 and it may well still be worth that in a few years.

 

If you want to seriously consider a 911, pick up the current copy of "Excellence" magazine. Bruce Anderson's monthly market update is covering 911's from 74-89. His data suggests that many of these cars have already started to appreciate in value. I can't vouch for the accuracy of the data but Bruce is a highly respected man in the Porsche world. Another good source of information for a shopper is Peter Zimmermann's "The Used 911 Story".

Michael

 

The only thing an S4( B5,6,7 ) have in common w/ the M5 is that they both have 4 doors.

Having owned both I feel I can somewhat qualify that statement.

The S4 is really at home in bad weather,snow, and cruising from point a to point b. It cruises at high speeds well and has decent 145+ mph stability. At times it can border on having a utilitarian feel unless you own a built Audi AAN 5 cylinder 20 valve turbo rally motor which is what my last S4 was. These are a different story altogether. Sub 450hp AWD cars can be devoid of drama and thrill and the later S4's are just so heavy that they plow at apexes when pushed , so they tend to be taken out of the category of being a driver's car.

A stock 3.6 M5 ,which is pretty much what you'll be limited to here in the US, will entertain you. The tq will pale in comparison to your S4, but it will get to 110 just as fast w/ a lot more visceral pleasure. Although the suspension is older than your S4, if fresh and well sorted ,will down right outperform it. No contest. There are lots of E34 M5's that outperform 911's at the Nurburgring. Go to e34m5.de and those bad boys do it all the time w/ video proof.

If you end up w/ a tuned M5 ( chip+Eisemann+RD intake+ Shrick 280 cams+race cats ) along w/ full suspension upgrades + big fat stickies.... you get a car that will bring you an intense amount of pleasure....I can't begin to explain it but I think most of the guys here that are long time owners can concur .

I write this fresh from yesterday's jaunt w/ my M5. As you know, I too face a choice between keeping my beast or buying a friends 993 Carrera....so I thought maybe a spirited drive would help narrow my choice.

I live in upstate New York where its almost all rural farmlands and valleys. We have our mini version of the Ring about 10 mins from my home. No traffic for the most part, winding roads that pitch as well as 1 mile straights where the corn fields are. Our only fear are the local deer..which love high end German cars and find it funny to cross into their paths.

Its amazing how this car can be pushed. For a rather large sedan , it can really dance. I have 275's in the rear and I can still manage to break them loose on hard right turns. Its the one car I've had where the throttle actually saves you every time.

I also feel that the E34 M5 chassis power to weight ratio is just right . 355hp-3700 lbs w/ a long wheelbase makes for a car that is balanced. It will make you a better driver. I find most cars I've driven have too much power for the average enthusiast to drive at or even near limit. Unless you've got a hundred or so HPDE hrs behind cars like a Z06,996,E46 M3 , less power, more suspension = more pleasure.

As far as an older 911, I had an 87 as well as an 81 SC. I agree w/ MStupp. Fun cars, pretty reliable at times,but I don't think I'd revisit those days. Even when clean, they look so dated. Its a 'tweener P car.

Not old enough to look sweet like a 69 911S,T,or E, and not as sexy as it predecesor the 964 or 993. But thats just me.

 

The only thing an S4( B5,6,7 ) have in common w/ the M5 is that they both have 4 doors.

Having owned both I feel I can somewhat qualify that statement.



A stock 3.6 M5 ,which is pretty much what you'll be limited to here in the US, will entertain you. The tq will pale in comparison to your S4, but it will get to 110 just as fast w/ a lot more visceral pleasure. Although the suspension is older than your S4, if fresh and well sorted ,will down right outperform it. No contest. There are lots of E34 M5's that outperform 911's at the Nurburgring. Go to e34m5.de and those bad boys do it all the time w/ video proof.

I write this fresh from yesterday's jaunt w/ my M5. As you know, I too face a choice between keeping my beast or buying a friends 993 Carrera....so I thought maybe a spirited drive would help narrow my choice.


I also feel that the E34 M5 chassis power to weight ratio is just right . 355hp-3700 lbs w/ a long wheelbase makes for a car that is balanced. It will make you a better driver. I find most cars I've driven have too much power for the average enthusiast to drive at or even near limit. Unless you've got a hundred or so HPDE hrs behind cars like a Z06,996,E46 M3 , less power, more suspension = more pleasure.

As far as an older 911, I had an 87 as well as an 81 SC. I agree w/ MStupp. Fun cars, pretty reliable at times,but I don't think I'd revisit those days. Even when clean, they look so dated. Its a 'tweener P car.

Not old enough to look sweet like a 69 911S,T,or E, and not as sexy as it predecesor the 964 or 993. But thats just me.

I have way more than 100 hours of both DE and racing under my belt in rather high HP cars - 360hp Camaro, 400+ HP C4, 330hp C4, 400hp Z06, etc. But I do know exactly what you mean about the balance thing. The Z06 is actually a pretty well balanced car stock. Because the limits of the car are way up there. My race-only C4 was a bit of a handful with the 400hp motor but much easier to drive quickly with the 330hp motor. And my current race car is a 215rwhp car at 3200lbs with driver and fuel - Camaro that I run with the NASA CMC series. Or used to - I gave that up this year because I can no longer support the yearly budget associated with organized racing due to family priorities. that is much more of a momentum car - it has some V8 grunt, but not like the stuff I was used to. And I absolutely agree that it forced me into becoming a better driver. But the biggest factor in becoming a better, faster, safer, more aware driver was running wheel to wheel racing with the NASA CMC boys. It is just simply amazing the speeds you can take a 3200lb Camaro with 255 toyos through a turn - and that has zero to do with HP. So running in a pack of highly skilled drivers in nearly identically prepped cars was an exponential learning experience for me, even after 10+ years of doing DE's. I could watch them up close, see what they did - how much speed they could carry and then follow them and section by section of each track we ran I got faster. Way faster than I ever would be doing even in a Z06 - because there is no way I am going to take a $30K+ street car through corners at 9-10/10's. The consequences are too high. So I guarantee I ran faster lap times in my race car which was the same weight and was down 150hp and also had a way less sophisticated chassis and no ABS - although we ran way more negative camber than you could ever get away with in a dual purpose car.


So I know where you are coming from with that. And that said - I probably like my S4 so much (I have the later model even more piggie one) because I never push it past 75% on the street. I would probably hate it on the race track. But I love driving a stock power E36 M3 on the track. That's the thing - 10/10's doesn't apply for me on the street. I won't go there. I can go there on a race track, even in a pretty fast car. But that just doesn't apply to the street for me.

So to your point - I agree that a more balanced, lower HP car with a great chassis can be a lot more fun to drive both on track and on the street. And especially on the street where there is just a limit to how fast you can safely go anyway, having a lower HP car can be a lot more fun. I used to have a ton of fun in the E36 M3 and while I sometimes wished for more power, the great balance that car had from the factory made it fun to drive and I could wring it out a bit more without going crazy fast in no time like in the Z06. That was part of why I got rid of the car - it was just too fast for the street. Couple seconds of WOT merging on the freeway and before you know it you are past 90mph and still in 3rd gear. That's bad. Especially since mine was red...

 

I was noodling about this today during some down time at a soccer tournament with my daughter. The whole sports car vs. sports sedan thing. And really for the type of driving and use that I have now, a sports car doesn't make a whole lotta sense. Maybe after the kids have left the nest. Like I would not have wanted to drive a really nice 911 up to the field and leave it sitting on the street next to all the minivans and SUV's and so forth. I would be too nervous about it. And after sitting out in the sun, even on a moderate day - upper 70's - it was nice to get in and blast the cold AC for the ride home.

So as a practical matter, I really do not have enough opportunity right now to enjoy a sports car. I found that with the last couple that I have owned, then I go without one for awhile and think it will be different this time, and it isn't. So I think I am going to refocus on getting some kind of sedan or 2-door, 4-seat coupe. Something more modern than the 911. Sure - if I could swing a 993 I might be considering it, but that is just outside my realistic budget right now.

So a E34 M5 or E36 or E46 M3 are on the top of my list. Probably I will turn to dinan for a suspension either way I go - factory set up is probably good enough on the E46 actually. And leave the motor alone other than a chip and intake. I do want a nice balanced RWD car that handles well and has great road feel and feedback. And has a back seat so I can use it with the family or at least with my 2 girls. BMW M cars have proven to have that in my past experience, I see no reason to expand that horizon...

The M5 would be the more useful, the M3 the more sporting.

 

Go for the M5 on over the M3 if for no other reason than you're so much less likely to see another on the road. I gotta say I prefer the feel you get from driving the E34 M5 over the E46 M3 as well. It just feels like a more solid car it all respects.