Crush bent piping. Awesome.

 

Is that good or bad? Hah.


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this is off to a good start...

 

I see 2 different sets of headers in these pics. No? I am not an exhaust guru, but based on what I know and pick up, the set laying on the floor don't look like a great design looking at it from a equal length perspective. I know some applications just can't have equal length tubes due to space, but what is pictured there is drastically different. I think there could be driveability issues with that set up, or at least a power differential between cylinders. The first set, that are bolted on an engine, look like they will work fine. I can't comment on how well they would flow, but certainly don't look restrictive. They are probably better than the OE manifolds anyway. :dunno:

 

Ergen makes LHD and RHD versions. The major problem is clearing the steering shaft, with less major problems including the subframe, frame rails, and floor pans. Symmetrical headers aren't really an option, short of deliberately crimping the passenger side.

 

Crush bent piping is not optimal. Period.

However, in most cars you won't notice the difference if you have crush bent piping after the cats, but I'm thinking it will be more noticeable at the headers.

BUT you have V8 in an e30 and you will likely be too busy ****ting your pants to worry about the type of bends in the headers.

Typically, high performance headers are mandrel bent.

 

Is that why the mandrel bent headers are so expensive? And yes, they are two different headers. The ones mounted are the ones I am considering. The other ones look like they won't fit. Having such a large engine in an E30 has it's drawbacks, especially space. But, the pros are monumentally better and therefore make this swap worth it!


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yellow13,

I think you were talking about me when you mentioned someone on the forum said those headers wouldn't work. Just want to clarify what I meant. The headers you posted would probably be better than the OE headers but they are also leaving a lot on the table power wise. As others mentioned, the cruch bend piping, bad merge designs and the not even close to equal length of them are far from ideal. Not that equal length are the be all and the end all on a cross plane v8 with uneven cylinder firing unlike an i6 for example. IMHO it looks like these headers were designed to get a v8 in an e30 the easiest and cheapest way possible. If thats all you want then these headers will be fine. If you eventually want to get more power out of the s62 then it might be cheaper in the long run to just design the custom headers now. an e30 with an s62 is going to be an animal and a handful either way.

 

I'm building off of the OBX headers for mine. (Essentially a they are a build kit on the driver's side.) The Ergens are a fair amount of money but have a lot of compromises.

 

I will agree and second the fact that the headers pictured are not optimal. But then again, our stock headers are FAR from optimal... so its hard to say it would be a downgrade.

On the assumption that you NEED to get headers for fitment reasons, I see no problems with the ones pictured mounted. If you dont NEED headers, I think the gains will be minimal to non-existent and you would be better off just using the stock bits.

 

Basically, if you are paying someone to fab an exhaust, the Ergen headers are probably the cheapest solution and they are decent and easy. The modified X5 headers that some folks use for V8 E30 swaps look more like plugs than exhaust manifolds.

If you are prepared to do some serious fab work yourself, there are other options. The Ergen kit is, so far as I am aware, the ONLY off the shelf option that isn't utter garbage.

 

I do appreciate everyone's response so far.
The issues I am dealing with are simple; the most power and the best fit.
I understand I will most likely have to come to a compromise and deal with what power I can get.

The M5 OEM headers will not fit. However, the X5 OEM headers will fit after some slight modification but are far from optimal for even the X5. I researched about the Mandrel vs. Crush thing and felt dumb because I already knew that, just completely had a brain fart.

Anyway, I want my flow to be the best that it can be with being able to have the best fitment possible. Finding someone around here who is a master welder pipe bender guru is slim to none and I am also trying to stay away from spending so much ($1,500+) on headers. I know I chose one hell of an expensive build but, there's gotta be something that can be reasonably achieved.

 

Those headers are not ideal. Use the stock header from the S62 if you cant do Evolve or Supersprint.

 

Stock is not even in the vicinity of an option. They do not fit at all.

 

Neither of those three will fit.


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Stock is not even in the vicinity of an option. They do not fit at all.

The next best option would be 4.4i/4.6is headers. They're shorties.

I'm assuming its a chassis fitment problem with stock/SS/Evolve

 

I'm tempted to buy the Ergen ones due to the fact that I'll just have to do some minor modifications for them to fit. Getting the S62 in the engine bay of an E30 is quite a challenge when trying to line everything up. I'm almost willing to sacrifice maybe 2-5 horsepower.


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It might be more, I guess we'll see when the car gets dynoed

 

Now now, boys...

Standing waves, you mean the resonance of exhaust in the merge would cause flow issues? Such as choppiness and inconsistency? Or would it cause it to become very raspy?


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Impede top end airflow. Ie, the engine wont produce the power it's supposed to on the top end.

 

Ah....are you suggesting 5500+rpm or 7k+?


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4500+

 

Ah. I see. That may be an issue considering the S62 is very well balanced between low end and top end.


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1) The question is how are these worse than OEM?

2) They made power in direct swap outs on the M60 740s that they were designed for. You know, the ones that came with the same manifold as the S62.

3) Here are some nice pictures of crushed X5 headers:
R3VLimited Forums - View Single Post - Exhaust manifold work

In my opinion, that's unacceptable.

 

1) The question is how are these worse than OEM?

Which ones? OBX or Ergen? I havent seen any obx header actually make power, people say they do...but I've not seen evidence of them making power w/o them removing the downstream cat.

2) They made power in direct swap outs on the M60 740s that they were designed for. You know, the ones that came with the same manifold as the S62.

Again, I havent seen any evidence beyond what you've told me.

3) Here are some nice pictures of crushed X5 headers:
R3VLimited Forums - View Single Post - Exhaust manifold work

In my opinion, that's unacceptable.

Your opinion is correct, as from the looks of this, they crushed it for no reason...unless I'm missing something. The steering shaft is miles away.

 

Actually, upon further looking, that appears to be Genuine BMW OEM crushing. They just come that way.

 

The ones on my 4.6is didnt have that dent there when I pulled the exhaust that I recall.

 

Hi all. My name is Adem, I am the owner of Ergen Motorsport here in the UK.

Thanks for everyones input so far! Its nice to see a forum maturely discussing things for a change, so thought I'd pitch in here and let you know some of the reasons behind the designs pictured.

We developed 2 types of headers, one for the RHD market and the other for LHD Market. The different pics above show the 2 different models.

YES, they are compression bent not mandrel, and no, that's not ideal (in a perfect world). However dealing in a market such as the E30 one globally, it is very difficult to make everyone happy But we thought we would at least try.

As some members have very correctly said having system custom made is very expensive. Our goal was to develop a plug and play kit that would be a notch or two better then the butchered X5 headers which everyone seemed to favor, but not break the bank at the same time. Hence compression bent tubes. We spent a good while playing with different diameter tubing and trying to find a compromise between equal length primaries, decent flow, good enough bends etc all within the limited space available in the e30 engine bay. So in a bid to keep the costs as consumer friendly as possible the above designs are what resulted.

Based on some of our own results and customer feedback we can say our headers definitely flow better then the X5 or chopped up m6* headers. If you have a budget of £2k+ by all means we can make you an equal length mandrel bent set. However we are trying to appeal to the diy'er. All of our products aim to be 'plug n play' making swaps easier and more accessible to people.

We are spending some time in the next few months power testing our cars, headers and maps to allow us to give true and proven power results, thus helping you make informed purchasing decisions.

I can tell you we have experienced no negative effects with our kits.

Just to clarify
- Due to the limited space in the E30 you will need a slim steering linkage to make the kit work (which can supply too).
- We also state; Minor modifications 'may' be needed due to the different choice of engine mounts, different rubber mounts, final engine positions, subframe spacing, steering rack differences etc etc. Typically unneeded but depending on your build it may be required.

Thank you for all your interest and comments, we are always looking to improve and develop our products, and constructive discussions such as this help us do that.

Feel free to contact us should you have any questions
Home page

 

Thank you, Adem. I appreciate the clarification on the headers. I was talking to Frank last night about headers for the e30 when he did his e30 swap, he said, "Honestly, when making that much power in a car that doesn't weigh all that much, losing a few horses in the top end, you wouldn't really be able to feel it or tell. With that being said, why would you care?" He brought up a rather good point.