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Oil Separator Hoses...now I'm a believer!

38K views 31 replies 12 participants last post by  zaid  
#1 ·
A couple weeks ago I was making my way back from Fort Myers across Alligator Alley in something like 94 degrees and 85% humidity, doing anywhere from 80 to 100mph. The speed limit is 70 and if I had a long clear line of sight, I'd move up to 100 or so for a bit and then let off the gas when approaching a small hill or raised area when my sight stopped, drifting back to 80. This was in 6th gear the whole time but at those speeds the rpms never got much below about 3k so when I reapplied some gas coming over the little hill, I don't believe I was lugging the motor or anything.

After about 30 minutes, the Beast began sort of bucking, or stuttering, when I got back on the gas. So I kept it even after that just setting the cruise at 80 to make sure I got home ok. When exiting the highway, it was the same thing getting on the gas in lower gears - it seemed to stutter and stumble at lower rpm's but smooth out around 3k.

At first there was no SES light but the next day (another scorcher here in SoFlo) I experienced some more of the same and *bingo* the SES came on. I ran my Peake and found the following codes:

Table 18, AA AF AE 91 90

Looking them up and doing some Search on here seemed to indicate that some of those may be triggered by things other than the CPS, etc. My oil separators and hoses are the OE on this Beast and with 117k, I had a strong suspicion that I should have gotten around to that preventive maintenance when I first intended to. Sure enough, the hoses were very, very squishy and soft.

At any rate, to wrap up this rambling: I ordered new hoses and put them on, cleaning the oil separators with throttle body spray at the same time. There was a good amount of oily brown fluid running out of them when I sprayed the cleaner in there. Once it seemed to be clear, I set them aside and came back later for a little more spray...only to find it still seemed dirty. So I am not 100% convinced that my cleaning was good enough - might as well order up some new ones and not have to worry about it anymore. Also, one of the gaskets that goes into the intake plenum is torn in that about half of the ribbed part has separated from the "outside the plenum" part. I'm assuming that definitely needs to be replaced?

I cleared those codes and they haven't come back since...nor has the stuttering, despite incredibly hot days here lately. So even though the hoses didn't seem to have visible cracks/leaks in them, there must be something to the whole "squishy hoses are collapsing and constricting airflow" thing.

Hope this helps anyone who might search on those error codes or whatever.

Cheers,
SP
 
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#2 ·
A couple weeks ago I was making my way back from Fort Myers across Alligator Alley in something like 94 degrees and 85% humidity, doing anywhere from 80 to 100mph. The speed limit is 70 and if I had a long clear line of sight, I'd move up to 100 or so for a bit and then let off the gas when approaching a small hill or raised area when my sight stopped, drifting back to 80. This was in 6th gear the whole time but at those speeds the rpms never got much below about 3k so when I reapplied some gas coming over the little hill, I don't believe I was lugging the motor or anything.

After about 30 minutes, the Beast began sort of bucking, or stuttering, when I got back on the gas. So I kept it even after that just setting the cruise at 80 to make sure I got home ok. When exiting the highway, it was the same thing getting on the gas in lower gears - it seemed to stutter and stumble at lower rpm's but smooth out around 3k.

At first there was no SES light but the next day (another scorcher here in SoFlo) I experienced some more of the same and *bingo* the SES came on. I ran my Peake and found the following codes:

Table 18, AA AF AE 91 90

Looking them up and doing some Search on here seemed to indicate that some of those may be triggered by things other than the CPS, etc. My oil separators and hoses are the OE on this Beast and with 117k, I had a strong suspicion that I should have gotten around to that preventive maintenance when I first intended to. Sure enough, the hoses were very, very squishy and soft.

At any rate, to wrap up this rambling: I ordered new hoses and put them on, cleaning the oil separators with throttle body spray at the same time. There was a good amount of oily brown fluid running out of them when I sprayed the cleaner in there. Once it seemed to be clear, I set them aside and came back later for a little more spray...only to find it still seemed dirty. So I am not 100% convinced that my cleaning was good enough - might as well order up some new ones and not have to worry about it anymore. Also, one of the gaskets that goes into the intake plenum is torn in that about half of the ribbed part has separated from the "outside the plenum" part. I'm assuming that definitely needs to be replaced?

I cleared those codes and they haven't come back since...nor has the stuttering, despite incredibly hot days here lately. So even though the hoses didn't seem to have visible cracks/leaks in them, there must be something to the whole "squishy hoses are collapsing and constricting airflow" thing.

Hope this helps anyone who might search on those error codes or whatever.

Cheers,
SP

Question! Did you replace the lower hoses too? I planned on doing those, but there is no way in hell you can replace those properly without removing the thermostat housing from what i can tell. I suspect my lower hoses are toast, but untill i order a new thermostat gasket housing + thermostat im not going to replace them. I figure i may as well replace the thermostat while i am in that area anyways.

Did you replace just the upper hoses? Mine were very soft, especially while driving, i notice the heat made them very sticky and when squeezed would retain the indents from my fingers for a good 20 seconds or so.
 
#3 ·
No, I did not do the lower hoses. They did not feel at all soft and squishy like the upper hoses did, and as many have noted on this board, the lower hoses are not accessible unless you remove that T-stat housing. So yes, I changed out my upper hoses and they were very much like you describe yours. Am going to order new separators and the plenum gaskets as mentioned above and swap all that out just for complete peace of mind. Wish I had known about those lower hoses last year when my thermostat went out...but changing that once is enough for now. If you can hold out and do it all together, go for it.

SP
 
#5 ·
You may want to consider changing your air filters as well - the squishy holes collapse because they are under suction from the intake. The intake naturally creates suction (otherwise it would be an exhaust), but with easier breathing through the air filters it will place less suction on the separator hoses.

d-
 
#6 ·
return of the same Peake codes!!

Well, I thought that changing out the oil separators and the upper hoses would do the trick...but the EXACT same thing as described above in my OP happened again and resulted in the EXACT same Peake codes - TWICE! This was only at the end of a long drive in some serious South FL heat - several hours on the interstate averaging about 80-85mph. The stuttering and dying comes at the end of the long run when leaving the steady speeds of 80mph or so and coming back to local street driving. The first time in August, the Beast actually sputtered and died on me right on the street after stuttering and getting worse and worse. Was able to wait a few minutes, get it started, limp forward just a couple blocks to my destination and parked it for an entire day. It ran fine the next day for a 45 min drive, no issues.

Then a couple days later I was on another 3hour highway run and it kicked in again at the end of the drive. So, based on those same Peake codes, what do the experts on this board think?

Peake codes: Table 18
AA - Secondary Air System, flow too low
AE - Air-Fuel Adaptation, cyl #1-4
AF - Air-Fuel Adaptation, cyl #5-8
90 - Fuel Control, cyl #1-4
91 - Fuel Control, cyl #5-8


To sum up some maintenance history: the oil separators, hoses and plenum gaskets are new. Air filters in good shape. Fuel filter, spark plugs and pre-cat O2 sensors recently replaced. MAF history is unknown to me however I just ran the secret menu test two days ago and got a corrected reading of about 140L/H in 2nd gear. Never done the voltage test but can do it if recommended. 120k miles on Beast now, FYI.

So, my thoughts are mostly about the CPS, given that these symptoms happen only after running very hot for very long time periods. But I suppose the fuel pump could come into play?

thanks!
SP
 
#7 ·
Well, I thought that changing out the oil separators and the upper hoses would do the trick...but the EXACT same thing as described above in my OP happened again and resulted in the EXACT same Peake codes - TWICE! This was only at the end of a long drive in some serious South FL heat - several hours on the interstate averaging about 80-85mph. The stuttering and dying comes at the end of the long run when leaving the steady speeds of 80mph or so and coming back to local street driving. The first time in August, the Beast actually sputtered and died on me right on the street after stuttering and getting worse and worse. Was able to wait a few minutes, get it started, limp forward just a couple blocks to my destination and parked it for an entire day. It ran fine the next day for a 45 min drive, no issues.

Then a couple days later I was on another 3hour highway run and it kicked in again at the end of the drive. So, based on those same Peake codes, what do the experts on this board think?

Peake codes: Table 18
AA - Secondary Air System, flow too low
AE - Air-Fuel Adaptation, cyl #1-4
AF - Air-Fuel Adaptation, cyl #5-8
90 - Fuel Control, cyl #1-4
91 - Fuel Control, cyl #5-8


To sum up some maintenance history: the oil separators, hoses and plenum gaskets are new. Air filters in good shape. Fuel filter, spark plugs and pre-cat O2 sensors recently replaced. MAF history is unknown to me however I just ran the secret menu test two days ago and got a corrected reading of about 140L/H in 2nd gear. Never done the voltage test but can do it if recommended. 120k miles on Beast now, FYI.

So, my thoughts are mostly about the CPS, given that these symptoms happen only after running very hot for very long time periods. But I suppose the fuel pump could come into play?

thanks!
SP
I like fuel pump and/or pressure regulator. Could also be clogged injectors.

Two questions:
1. Have you measured fuel pressure?
2. Is you tank generally close to empty when this occurs? If so, I suspect overheating fuel pump.

d-
 
#8 ·
As you guys say Fuel Pump and Pressure Regulator seem good stuff to me too !

Also check for the condition of all the gasket rings on the intake system pre plenum.
 
#16 ·
There is a lot of Sh*tty gas down in SoFla. Ive had this happen because I happened to fill up when the station got a bad batch of gas (it happend more than twice). I ended up having to siphon out the gas and purge the system (I just popped out the fuel filter and let the line empty, then turned the car over a few times). Once I got some gas from a chevron, it started up just fine and ran w/o issue. The fuels Ive noted that do this in So Fla are Mobil and Shell. BP seems to be ok, as does Chevron.
 
#17 ·
Now that is interesting - Shell is listed on the Top-Tier Fuel list and BP is not. I will say, though, that I used BP Ultimate exclusively in the Beast until recently when I decided to try out some Shell and Chevron. So on the occasions when this issue occurred, it was with BP Ultimate in the tank. Not that I'm trying to make a big deal out of that Top Tier list (as sometimes you have to wonder how "impartial" something like that might be?) but it was just an observation.

Sean
 
#20 ·
Ideally, if doc could temporarily rig a fuel pressure gauge inside the cockpit, he could monitor and see what happens when he gets his stumble. Heat could cause a fuel pump to go bad, (and possibly the fuel relay in the trunk) and it could be intermittant. Low gas would make matters worse, since the fuel is used to cool the pump. Unless the relays are very expensive, I would get a fuel pump relay and swap. Worst case is you have a spare when it does go bad!!!

I typically get over 400 miles on a tank of highway driving (and that is WITH the ESS SC), and around 250-280 before the fuel light comes on in mixed driving. If doc is only getting 230 miles on the highway, I think the car is not running right. If 230 is city driving of hard driving, then no problem.
Regards,
Jerry
 
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