DCT Clutch Problems - Page 2 - BMW M5 Forum and M6 Forums
F10 M5 Discussion 2010- Discussion about the next upcoming generation M5 based on the next generation 5-series, the F10.

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post #11 of 54 Old 16th June 2016, 03:03 PM Thread Starter
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The old different tyres/wheels routine hey... Good luk with this. Hopefully you will get a new DTC soon.
BMW of Manhattan seems intent on blaming Dinan. Latest email from them says they saw the problem occur with Dinantronics installed, but not when it was disconnected.

I sincerely doubt this. Probably didn't drive the F10 at highway speeds. Pointed out that the Dinantronics worked just fine for 2 1/2 years. And since BMW Completely replaced the Dinantronics last visit, what are the chances the 2nd one failed also? I know of no other Dinantronics failures. I told them I would happily repeat the test I did with George Boutsikos of M-Chanics and record it on video this time.

Logically the most likely failure is occurring within the DCT and/or it's computers. BMW of Manhattan clearly doesn't want to believe the DCT needs replacing. I will be relentless in getting to the truth in this matter and won't stop until this matter is properly resolved. Stay tuned.
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post #12 of 54 Old 16th June 2016, 03:16 PM
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Is it possible that a software issue in the interface between the DCT controller and the engine management is the underlying cause? The Dinantronics may be highlighting the issue but I doubt it is the route cause.

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post #13 of 54 Old 16th June 2016, 03:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Kelster View Post
BMW of Manhattan seems intent on blaming Dinan. Latest email from them says they saw the problem occur with Dinantronics installed, but not when it was disconnected.

I sincerely doubt this. Probably didn't drive the F10 at highway speeds. Pointed out that the Dinantronics worked just fine for 2 1/2 years. And since BMW Completely replaced the Dinantronics last visit, what are the chances the 2nd one failed also? I know of no other Dinantronics failures. I told them I would happily repeat the test I did with George Boutsikos of M-Chanics and record it on video this time.

Logically the most likely failure is occurring within the DCT and/or it's computers. BMW of Manhattan clearly doesn't want to believe the DCT needs replacing. I will be relentless in getting to the truth in this matter and won't stop until this matter is properly resolved. Stay tuned.
As an engineer, I think it is far more likely that a bit of after market software is responsible than the heavily and methodically tested original equipment. Sounds like whatever version of Dinan you had isn't compatible with your car's software versions.

What are Dinan saying about all this? Presumably they are being the super helpful company everyone says they are?

Don't forget PUMA is BMW AG taking control from the dealer, and they want to know everything that is wrong with their cars. They aren't going to leave things unresolved.

Keep us posted. I'm very curious......
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post #14 of 54 Old 16th June 2016, 03:29 PM Thread Starter
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Is it possible that a software issue in the interface between the DCT controller and the engine management is the underlying cause? The Dinantronics may be highlighting the issue but I doubt it is the route cause.
It could be but the puzzling aspect to this problem is that no codes are shown. Nada. Dinantronics most assuredly is not the root cause of the problem 3 1/2 hours of instrumented road testing with George conclusively proved that. BMW of Manhattan is hoping they won't be installing a DCT with only 4 months to lease expiry. If this gets sorted out I probably will look to extend the lease for another year.
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post #15 of 54 Old 17th June 2016, 06:18 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by 100%Cocoa View Post
As an engineer, I think it is far more likely that a bit of after market software is responsible than the heavily and methodically tested original equipment. Sounds like whatever version of Dinan you had isn't compatible with your car's software versions.

What are Dinan saying about all this? Presumably they are being the super helpful company everyone says they are?

Don't forget PUMA is BMW AG taking control from the dealer, and they want to know everything that is wrong with their cars. They aren't going to leave things unresolved.

Keep us posted. I'm very curious......
I too am an engineer. Also held a P.E. license. I would agree with your first observation but for the following facts:

(1) F10 ran perfectly for 2 1/2 years with the original Dinantronics module and BMW initially pointed the finger at being the culprit. They updated the Dinan firmware & software and ICM software and pronounced it as being fixed. It wasn't.

(2) Back to BMW of Manhattan for a 2nd service appointment and this time replaced the entire Dinantronics unit with a brand new one from Dinan and once again declared the F10 as fixed. It was not.

(3) Took the F10 to George Boutsikos at M-Chanics to get another opinion. He completely disconnected Dinantronics, connected a laptop with Rheingold BMW diagnostic software to the F10 & we then proceeded to road test it for 3+ hours on the Southern State Parkway at highway speeds.

(4) This is what we observed. Upon initiating a manual down shift the DCT would rev match and engine braking began, but after about 1 second the clutches inexplicably released and engine braking ceased. A scary scenario when you are trying to scrub speed. This scenario was repeated many more times. And Dinantronics was completely disconnected.

(5) F10 also has a nasty habit of maintaining speed on the highway after you remove your foot off the gas pedal. Probably related to the DCT clutches releasing prematurely.

(6) Dinan has maintained their innocence from the get go. And what are the chances of the new Dinantronics module instantly failing and causing the same DCT problems? Infinitesimally small I should think.o

(7) George has been in contact with BMW of Manhattan to confirm his findingsi.

(8) I'm hoping against hope that we'll learn something from PUMA, but I am not optimistic. Only 3 months left on lease.

(9) the Better Business Bureau of NJ rates BMW of NA as "F" on a scale of A+ to F.

(10) Profits are clearly more important to BMW than transparency and customer satisfaction.
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post #16 of 54 Old 18th June 2016, 03:15 PM
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(1) F10 ran perfectly for 2 1/2 years with the original Dinantronics module and BMW initially pointed the finger at being the culprit. They updated the Dinan firmware & software and ICM software and pronounced it as being fixed. It wasn't.
Not sure to understand your first point. Why was the SW updated if the car ran fine ? To fix something else ?
When did the problem appear the first time ? right after BMW updated the firmware ?

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(3) Took the F10 to George Boutsikos at M-Chanics to get another opinion. He completely disconnected Dinantronics, connected a laptop with Rheingold BMW diagnostic software to the F10 & we then proceeded to road test it for 3+ hours on the Southern State Parkway at highway speeds.

(4) This is what we observed. Upon initiating a manual down shift the DCT would rev match and engine braking began, but after about 1 second the clutches inexplicably released and engine braking ceased. A scary scenario when you are trying to scrub speed. This scenario was repeated many more times. And Dinantronics was completely disconnected.
When the Dinantronics is disconnected, does it mean the car "back to stock" ? (ECU / DCT firmware stand point)
And you still have the "clutch disconnect issue" ?

In any case, good luck and keep us posted.
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post #17 of 54 Old 18th June 2016, 08:01 PM Thread Starter
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Not sure to understand your first point. Why was the SW updated if the car ran fine ? To fix something else ?
When did the problem appear the first time ? right after BMW updated the firmware ?
When I first brought the F10 in to BMW of Manhattan for the malfunctioning DCT problem, they blamed it on Dinantronics module. They did firmware/software updates to the Dinantronics and a software update to the Integrated Chassis Module and pronounced it fixed, but it wasn't.

Brought it in a second time & BMW replaced the existing Dinantronics with a new one. Again they declared the DCT problems fixed. Sadly they weren't.

Quote:
When the Dinantronics is disconnected, does it mean the car "back to stock" ? (ECU / DCT firmware stand point)
And you still have the "clutch disconnect issue" ?
When I brought my F10 to George Boutsikos at M-Chanics to have him check out what was wrong, he completely disconnected the Dinantronics module to eliminate the possibility of it being part of the problem. The ECU was back to stock. He then plugged his laptop with Rheingold BMW diagnostic software into the F10 and we spent 3+ hours road testing it. And yes, the DCT malfunctions continued unabated. This information was communicated to BMW of Manhattan.

The F10 went back BMW of Manhattan early last Monday for a 3rd time and a PUMA case was allegedly opened after they downloaded FASTA data. Nothing has been communicated back to me thus far. They are to give me an update next Monday afternoon.

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In any case, good luck and keep us posted.
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Last edited by Kelster; 18th June 2016 at 08:02 PM.
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post #18 of 54 Old 20th June 2016, 07:52 PM Thread Starter
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BMW Can't Fix My DCT

My 2014 F10 M5 CP is back with BMW of Manhattan (3rd time) for a week now for the previously reported DCT problem. I learned this morning that the PUMA case allegedly didn't yield anything useful. Plan on an early lease termination. SMH
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post #19 of 54 Old 20th June 2016, 09:20 PM
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Sorry to hear about the issues w/the F10. I feel your pain having lived through a PUMA case with my E92...not pretty.
At least you leased yours and can walk away!....Good Luck Ray!

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post #20 of 54 Old 21st June 2016, 09:56 PM Thread Starter
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Sorry to hear about the issues w/the F10. I feel your pain having lived through a PUMA case with my E92...not pretty.
At least you leased yours and can walk away!....Good Luck Ray!
Thanks, Sergio.
The really sad part is that they just don't want to spend warranty $ on a car that's 4 months from the end of the lease because that will impact BMW of NA's quarterly profit margin.

BMW of Manhattan continues to maintain the fiction that it's the Dinantronics causing the problem. Even after I put a stake in the heart this theory by having it removed from the F10 and doing independent instrumented road testing while hooked up to BMW Rheingold diagnostic software.

I was going to buy the F10 after it came off lease but not now.
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