In the market for a new car. E63 or F10 M5? - BMW M5 Forum and M6 Forums
F10 M5 Discussion 2010- Discussion about the next upcoming generation M5 based on the next generation 5-series, the F10.

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post #1 of 59 Old 25th September 2014, 03:05 AM Thread Starter
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In the market for a new car. E63 or F10 M5?

Its been a while since Ive posted here. I sold my E60 M5 almost 2 years ago and now Im looking at getting another sports sedan. Im looking at either an F10 M5 or W212 E63. I like to tinker with my cars so I will end up with the basic mods (exhaust, tune, wheels etc.....). I know this is the M5 Board but I would like to here peoples opinions on which car is better and why. Thanks and here is a pic of my old M5.

Cheers, Mike
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post #2 of 59 Old 26th September 2014, 03:15 AM
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My opinion for both cars:

Mercedes: better for the passenger
BMW: better for the driver

I would stick with the F10 M5 not just because I am a BMW enthusiast, but because you will enjoy driving the M5 more and appreciate the outstanding handling. Thus, I believe the M5 is the car to go with and satisfy you.

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post #3 of 59 Old 28th September 2014, 10:13 AM
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Performance wise, If you're looking for brute acceleration in a straight line, and care of nothing else, the AWD on the E63 wins over the F10 each time from a stand still. From a roll maybe the F10 has a chance, it's pretty hard to launch this car from a stop. On a twisty turny roads, the F10 is way more fun given you know how to drive a RWD beyond a straight line.

Tech wise, I think the F10 equipped nicely has a modern feel to it. My friend has a 2014 CLS63 amg AWD (supposed to be more luxurious and refined than the E63) and I feel the interior of my F10 flows nicer and has a more modern, up to date look. The navigation screen on the F10 is much larger than the E63.

If you are looking for a used F10, be aware some of the earlier F10 models have issues that were resolved in later years...at least I think they were resolved (i.e. suspension noise, brakes squealing like a bus, HFPF etc.) These are things that I have personally had to deal with. Unfortunately I have been left stranded once with the F10 already with only 9000 miles when the HPFP failed.

I only mention this as I believe it is only fair you are aware of such issues. And yes, I know it may be true the same could happen with any other vehicle. As long as you have warranty then you should be fine.

The exhaust tone on the E63 is more of the muscle car sound, but to be honest the F10 has a different type of sound from the outside despite what others say about it being too quiet which I really like. Plus you probably are going to swap the system so that maybe is not such a big factor for yourself.

Personally, I am more concerned about all around performance therefore I would get the F10 over the E63 based on that alone.

My 2 cents!

Last edited by road_boy; 28th September 2014 at 10:24 AM.
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post #4 of 59 Old 28th September 2014, 03:43 PM
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I am also in the market for either of these cars in the next 6-12 months.

I've never driven the F10 M5 but have had the E63 for a couple of days and loved it. There's not many twisty roads up here or the chance to drive on the limit so I'm leaning towards the E63 or even the CLS63.

Also a good mate has had both and currently has the F10 M5 and says the E63 is more of a cruiser and the F10 makes you drive more aggresively.
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post #5 of 59 Old 29th September 2014, 01:49 AM
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I am a lifetime BMW owner (3 V8 5 Series cars, 2003 E39 540i, 2009 E60 550i and current 2012 Dinan Stage 2 550xi) and I just went through this M5 vs. E63 S decision myself and I went for the E63 S.

I decided on the E63 S for a few main reasons:

1. Raw power and acceleration: the M157 5.5 L V8 engine in the E63 is considerably more powerful than the 4.4 L V8 in the F10 M5. And the tuning potential is far greater. With a $3000 AMS tune or $3500 Renntech tune, the car produces 700 (AMS) or 701 (Renntech) bhp and a pavement ripping 830 (AMS) or 839 (lbs-ft) of torque. Renntech: http://www.renntechmercedes.com/www/node/1298 AMS: http://tuning.alphaperformance.com/p...-5-5l-biturbo/

Even with all Dinan power mods at a cost of about $10K installed http://dinancars.com/product/f10-m5-...ries&mid=1163/ , the M5 will produce less horsepower (689 bhp with Competition Package) and dramatically less torque (668 with Competition Package) -- not breaking even the 700 lbs-ft level. With the tune, the E63 does 0 to 60 in 2.9 seconds and the quarter in about 10.9-11 seconds. http://www.automobilemag.com/reviews...rmance-review/

A tuned F10 M5 (meaning one with bolt on mods -- not upgraded turbos) does not get close to those numbers.

Same with stock power. Best 0 to 60 time clocked by a car mag for the E63 S is 3.2 seconds while the best F10 M5 time is about 3.7 seconds. Bottom line: from acceleration from the a stop, the E63 S's combination of more horsepower, more torque and all wheel drive wins this area by a mile over the F10 M5. At high speeds above 110 or so the M5 will catch and pass the E63 S due to the greater high speed efficiency of RWD but I never drive those speeds.

2. The traction of all wheel drive. I live in the New York City area. I am a one car guy so this will be my daily driver. I just do not like driving in snow in RWD cars even with dedicated snows. My V8 BMWs with RWD were a handful in the snow even with dedicated snows. No such worries with the E63 S with dedicated snows. Moreover, with the M5, if you accelerate too hard from low speed you can get the traction control light coming on and slowing things down. With the E63's AWD, that doesn't happen. Just point the car and floor it.

3. The E63's engine and exhaust noise is a lot louder and more aggressive than the M5 which needs to pump in sound through the stereo. Love love love the rumble and roar of the E63 S.

4. I felt that the E63 S felt a lot lighter than the M5 which, to me, has a heavier feel (I know the M5 is lighter). Perhaps I like the steering feel of the E63 better.

That being said, the M5 has some advantages over the E63 S but they did not win the day for me:

1. Price: while the MSRP is more the lease deals on the M5 are better than the E63 S.

2. Looks: I think the M5 looks better, inside and out, than the E63.

3. Electronics: M5 has bigger nav screen and MUCH better sounding stereo.

4. Paint: M5 has some beautiful paint colors available. I find the E63's colors to be more dowdy and conservative -- no color like Sakhir Orange or Monte Carlo Blue for example.

5. Transmission: The M5's DCT is significantly better than the E63's MCT.

Perhaps the most comprehensive comparison of the two cars is found here: http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...ck_comparison/

Both are great cars. You cannot go wrong with either. I got a killer deal on my E63 S so PM me if you want some information on it as I have a hookup with a great dealer who discounts the car a lot.

Last edited by sdg1871; 29th September 2014 at 02:33 AM.
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post #6 of 59 Old 29th September 2014, 06:15 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sdg1871 View Post
I am a lifetime BMW owner (3 V8 5 Series cars, 2003 E39 540i, 2009 E60 550i and current 2012 Dinan Stage 2 550xi) and I just went through this M5 vs. E63 S decision myself and I went for the E63 S.

I decided on the E63 S for a few main reasons:

1. Raw power and acceleration: the M157 5.5 L V8 engine in the E63 is considerably more powerful than the 4.4 L V8 in the F10 M5. And the tuning potential is far greater. With a $3000 AMS tune or $3500 Renntech tune, the car produces 700 (AMS) or 701 (Renntech) bhp and a pavement ripping 830 (AMS) or 839 (lbs-ft) of torque. Renntech: RENNtech ECU Upgrade E 63 AMG (S) (W212 - for M157 BiTurbo 4-MATIC 2014+) | RENNTECH MERCEDES AMS: 2012+ MERCEDES E63 AMG 5.5L BITURBOAlpha Tuning

Even with all Dinan power mods at a cost of about $10K installed Dinan F10 M5 P1 Power Package 2014 , the M5 will produce less horsepower (689 bhp with Competition Package) and dramatically less torque (668 with Competition Package) -- not breaking even the 700 lbs-ft level. With the tune, the E63 does 0 to 60 in 2.9 seconds and the quarter in about 10.9-11 seconds. 2014 Mercedes-Benz E63 AMG Alpha 7 by AMS Performance Review

A tuned F10 M5 (meaning one with bolt on mods -- not upgraded turbos) does not get close to those numbers.

Same with stock power. Best 0 to 60 time clocked by a car mag for the E63 S is 3.2 seconds while the best F10 M5 time is about 3.7 seconds. Bottom line: from acceleration from the a stop, the E63 S's combination of more horsepower, more torque and all wheel drive wins this area by a mile over the F10 M5. At high speeds above 110 or so the M5 will catch and pass the E63 S due to the greater high speed efficiency of RWD but I never drive those speeds.

2. The traction of all wheel drive. I live in the New York City area. I am a one car guy so this will be my daily driver. I just do not like driving in snow in RWD cars even with dedicated snows. My V8 BMWs with RWD were a handful in the snow even with dedicated snows. No such worries with the E63 S with dedicated snows. Moreover, with the M5, if you accelerate too hard from low speed you can get the traction control light coming on and slowing things down. With the E63's AWD, that doesn't happen. Just point the car and floor it.

3. The E63's engine and exhaust noise is a lot louder and more aggressive than the M5 which needs to pump in sound through the stereo. Love love love the rumble and roar of the E63 S.

4. I felt that the E63 S felt a lot lighter than the M5 which, to me, has a heavier feel (I know the M5 is lighter). Perhaps I like the steering feel of the E63 better.

That being said, the M5 has some advantages over the E63 S but they did not win the day for me:

1. Price: while the MSRP is more the lease deals on the M5 are better than the E63 S.

2. Looks: I think the M5 looks better, inside and out, than the E63.

3. Electronics: M5 has bigger nav screen and MUCH better sounding stereo.

4. Paint: M5 has some beautiful paint colors available. I find the E63's colors to be more dowdy and conservative -- no color like Sakhir Orange or Monte Carlo Blue for example.

5. Transmission: The M5's DCT is significantly better than the E63's MCT.

Perhaps the most comprehensive comparison of the two cars is found here: 2014 Mercedes-Benz E63 AMG S vs. BMW M5 Competition Pack - Motor Trend

Both are great cars. You cannot go wrong with either. I got a killer deal on my E63 S so PM me if you want some information on it as I have a hookup with a great dealer who discounts the car a lot.
Thanks for taking the time to put this much detail in, I appreciate it. So Im looking at buying a used (12-13) so the AWD is out unless I find a stupid good deal on a 14. With that said I have a DD Audi Q7 so when the weather gets too bad Ill keep the car in the garage. Im leaning more towards the E63 because of the engine, just so much better then the M5. I actually like the interior better in the MB also, BMW interiors have always left a lot to be desired. I do really like the looks of the M5 but thats not enough to sway me. I have read the M5 is a better handling car which is important to me but to be completely honest of I really just wanted a car that handled well Id get a P-car. I need to drive both and then decide.
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post #7 of 59 Old 29th September 2014, 11:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kendall993 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdg1871 View Post
I am a lifetime BMW owner (3 V8 5 Series cars, 2003 E39 540i, 2009 E60 550i and current 2012 Dinan Stage 2 550xi) and I just went through this M5 vs. E63 S decision myself and I went for the E63 S.

I decided on the E63 S for a few main reasons:

1. Raw power and acceleration: the M157 5.5 L V8 engine in the E63 is considerably more powerful than the 4.4 L V8 in the F10 M5. And the tuning potential is far greater. With a $3000 AMS tune or $3500 Renntech tune, the car produces 700 (AMS) or 701 (Renntech) bhp and a pavement ripping 830 (AMS) or 839 (lbs-ft) of torque. Renntech: RENNtech ECU Upgrade E 63 AMG (S) (W212 - for M157 BiTurbo 4-MATIC 2014+) | RENNTECH MERCEDES AMS: 2012+ MERCEDES E63 AMG 5.5L BITURBOAlpha Tuning

Even with all Dinan power mods at a cost of about $10K installed Dinan F10 M5 P1 Power Package 2014 , the M5 will produce less horsepower (689 bhp with Competition Package) and dramatically less torque (668 with Competition Package) -- not breaking even the 700 lbs-ft level. With the tune, the E63 does 0 to 60 in 2.9 seconds and the quarter in about 10.9-11 seconds. 2014 Mercedes-Benz E63 AMG Alpha 7 by AMS Performance Review

A tuned F10 M5 (meaning one with bolt on mods -- not upgraded turbos) does not get close to those numbers.

Same with stock power. Best 0 to 60 time clocked by a car mag for the E63 S is 3.2 seconds while the best F10 M5 time is about 3.7 seconds. Bottom line: from acceleration from the a stop, the E63 S's combination of more horsepower, more torque and all wheel drive wins this area by a mile over the F10 M5. At high speeds above 110 or so the M5 will catch and pass the E63 S due to the greater high speed efficiency of RWD but I never drive those speeds.

2. The traction of all wheel drive. I live in the New York City area. I am a one car guy so this will be my daily driver. I just do not like driving in snow in RWD cars even with dedicated snows. My V8 BMWs with RWD were a handful in the snow even with dedicated snows. No such worries with the E63 S with dedicated snows. Moreover, with the M5, if you accelerate too hard from low speed you can get the traction control light coming on and slowing things down. With the E63's AWD, that doesn't happen. Just point the car and floor it.

3. The E63's engine and exhaust noise is a lot louder and more aggressive than the M5 which needs to pump in sound through the stereo. Love love love the rumble and roar of the E63 S.

4. I felt that the E63 S felt a lot lighter than the M5 which, to me, has a heavier feel (I know the M5 is lighter). Perhaps I like the steering feel of the E63 better.

That being said, the M5 has some advantages over the E63 S but they did not win the day for me:

1. Price: while the MSRP is more the lease deals on the M5 are better than the E63 S.

2. Looks: I think the M5 looks better, inside and out, than the E63.

3. Electronics: M5 has bigger nav screen and MUCH better sounding stereo.

4. Paint: M5 has some beautiful paint colors available. I find the E63's colors to be more dowdy and conservative -- no color like Sakhir Orange or Monte Carlo Blue for example.

5. Transmission: The M5's DCT is significantly better than the E63's MCT.

Perhaps the most comprehensive comparison of the two cars is found here: 2014 Mercedes-Benz E63 AMG S vs. BMW M5 Competition Pack - Motor Trend

Both are great cars. You cannot go wrong with either. I got a killer deal on my E63 S so PM me if you want some information on it as I have a hookup with a great dealer who discounts the car a lot.
Thanks for taking the time to put this much detail in, I appreciate it. So Im looking at buying a used (12-13) so the AWD is out unless I find a stupid good deal on a 14. With that said I have a DD Audi Q7 so when the weather gets too bad Ill keep the car in the garage. Im leaning more towards the E63 because of the engine, just so much better then the M5. I actually like the interior better in the MB also, BMW interiors have always left a lot to be desired. I do really like the looks of the M5 but thats not enough to sway me. I have read the M5 is a better handling car which is important to me but to be completely honest of I really just wanted a car that handled well Id get a P-car. I need to drive both and then decide.
Thanks.

The 2014 E63 with its all wheel drive is a vast improvement over its 2012-13 RWD predecessors. Look on Autotrader. There are some good deals on 14s--especially on the non S models. Crucially if you tune a non S it will produce exactly the same power as the tuned S model.

The benefit of the all wheel drive is not just snow traction. It makes a huge difference in acceleration on the car. If you lay into the accelerator in the 12-13 RWD E63s you are going to get well acquainted with the traction control cutting it. The engine is a torque monster.

Last edited by sdg1871; 29th September 2014 at 12:00 PM.
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post #8 of 59 Old 29th September 2014, 04:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sdg1871 View Post
I am a lifetime BMW owner (3 V8 5 Series cars, 2003 E39 540i, 2009 E60 550i and current 2012 Dinan Stage 2 550xi) and I just went through this M5 vs. E63 S decision myself and I went for the E63 S.

I decided on the E63 S for a few main reasons:

1. Raw power and acceleration: the M157 5.5 L V8 engine in the E63 is considerably more powerful than the 4.4 L V8 in the F10 M5. And the tuning potential is far greater. With a $3000 AMS tune or $3500 Renntech tune, the car produces 700 (AMS) or 701 (Renntech) bhp and a pavement ripping 830 (AMS) or 839 (lbs-ft) of torque. Renntech: RENNtech ECU Upgrade E 63 AMG (S) (W212 - for M157 BiTurbo 4-MATIC 2014+) | RENNTECH MERCEDES AMS: 2012+ MERCEDES E63 AMG 5.5L BITURBOAlpha Tuning

Even with all Dinan power mods at a cost of about $10K installed Dinan F10 M5 P1 Power Package 2014 , the M5 will produce less horsepower (689 bhp with Competition Package) and dramatically less torque (668 with Competition Package) -- not breaking even the 700 lbs-ft level. With the tune, the E63 does 0 to 60 in 2.9 seconds and the quarter in about 10.9-11 seconds. 2014 Mercedes-Benz E63 AMG Alpha 7 by AMS Performance Review

A tuned F10 M5 (meaning one with bolt on mods -- not upgraded turbos) does not get close to those numbers.

Same with stock power. Best 0 to 60 time clocked by a car mag for the E63 S is 3.2 seconds while the best F10 M5 time is about 3.7 seconds. Bottom line: from acceleration from the a stop, the E63 S's combination of more horsepower, more torque and all wheel drive wins this area by a mile over the F10 M5. At high speeds above 110 or so the M5 will catch and pass the E63 S due to the greater high speed efficiency of RWD but I never drive those speeds.

2. The traction of all wheel drive. I live in the New York City area. I am a one car guy so this will be my daily driver. I just do not like driving in snow in RWD cars even with dedicated snows. My V8 BMWs with RWD were a handful in the snow even with dedicated snows. No such worries with the E63 S with dedicated snows. Moreover, with the M5, if you accelerate too hard from low speed you can get the traction control light coming on and slowing things down. With the E63's AWD, that doesn't happen. Just point the car and floor it.

3. The E63's engine and exhaust noise is a lot louder and more aggressive than the M5 which needs to pump in sound through the stereo. Love love love the rumble and roar of the E63 S.

4. I felt that the E63 S felt a lot lighter than the M5 which, to me, has a heavier feel (I know the M5 is lighter). Perhaps I like the steering feel of the E63 better.

That being said, the M5 has some advantages over the E63 S but they did not win the day for me:

1. Price: while the MSRP is more the lease deals on the M5 are better than the E63 S.

2. Looks: I think the M5 looks better, inside and out, than the E63.

3. Electronics: M5 has bigger nav screen and MUCH better sounding stereo.

4. Paint: M5 has some beautiful paint colors available. I find the E63's colors to be more dowdy and conservative -- no color like Sakhir Orange or Monte Carlo Blue for example.

5. Transmission: The M5's DCT is significantly better than the E63's MCT.

Perhaps the most comprehensive comparison of the two cars is found here: 2014 Mercedes-Benz E63 AMG S vs. BMW M5 Competition Pack - Motor Trend

Both are great cars. You cannot go wrong with either. I got a killer deal on my E63 S so PM me if you want some information on it as I have a hookup with a great dealer who discounts the car a lot.
2013 BMW M5 1/4 mile Drag Racing timeslip specs 0-60 - DragTimes.com

I would say that is pretty close.
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post #9 of 59 Old 29th September 2014, 09:50 PM
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Quite an interesting debate.

We all know UK drivers are far better than our US cousins, so we don't get the (pu$$y) AWD E63/s & can only get the (i can drive) RWD variant & that really plays back into the F10 M5's hands as the performance differential is virtually non existent.

I jest (the pu$$y bit anyway), but in the UK you're not able to get the AWD AMG's, so that domain is solely owned by Audi RS's.

Paul

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post #10 of 59 Old 30th September 2014, 01:55 AM
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The 2013 M5 you cite has the BMS tune, downpipes and aftermarket exhaust. Quarter mile at 11.073 seconds at 128.680 mph.

The fastest 2014 E 63 time with tune, downpipes and aftermarket exhaust (AMS mods) in the quarter mile is 10.850 seconds at 129.310 mph: 2014 Mercedes-Benz E63 AMG S AWD Alpha 1/4 mile Drag Racing timeslip specs 0-60 - DragTimes.com

To me that is not that close.

In stock form, in the comparison I cited, Motor Trend clocked the M5 Competition Package from 0-60 at 3.7 seconds and E63 S at 3.4 seconds. From 0-100, the M5 was at 8.1 seconds while the E63 S was at 8.0 seconds. In the quarter mile, the M5 was at 11.9 sec @ 122.2 mph while the E63 S was at 11.6 sec @ 121.8 mph. To me, these results all show that the E63S has better acceleration at least until 100 mph. Clearly, above 100 the M5 will start reeling the E63 S in and passing it due to the greater high speed efficiency of rear wheel drive. But, to me, that is not important because I don't drive at speeds above 100 mph in real world driving. I usually don't exceed 85 or 90 and my average highway cruise is about 70-75.

Moreover, the M5 is very difficult to launch correctly due to so much power just driving the rear wheels. With the E63 S and its all wheel drive, it is point and shoot as it just puts the power down to the ground. Stated differently, the average driver will be much faster accelerating in the E63 S than in the M5.

In terms of braking, Motor Trend found that both cars stopped from 60 to 0 in 106 feet.

In terms of handling, both cars pulled .95 g on the skidpad and had the same time through the figure 8: 24.3 seconds.

Of course, in corners, the M5 rolls less than the E63 S which will roll more. I do love me some flat cornering.

Here is the link to the MT stats:

2014 Mercedes-Benz E63 AMG S vs. BMW M5 Competition Pack - Motor Trend Page 2

Again, to me they are both great cars. I would be happy with either one. I chose the E63 S because of the greater power, tuning potential, acceleration and winter traction with its AWD and because of its amazing engine and exhaust noise which, to me, the M5 does not compete with.

I still think the M5 is the better looking car both inside and outside as well as having better electronics, stereo and transmission.

Last edited by sdg1871; 30th September 2014 at 01:58 AM.
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