An s65 swap is a great idea. Change my mind. - Page 4 - BMW M5 Forum and M6 Forums
E60 M5 and E61 M5 Touring Discussion 2005- Advertiser's Forum

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post #31 of 41 Old 25th March 2019, 11:53 PM
TexaZ3
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Originally Posted by Kermudgen View Post
Laugh if you like, but I'm sorry, the price for parts is stupid, plain and simple. For no reason other than they can be and people will buy them. It's disgraceful.

I'll admit, bought my car for the engine and for the sound and feeling of driving it, but let's be real.... People should do what they want! It's metal with other rotating metal inside it. Hell, if by some miracle of reverse economics these things increase in value, people who "frankenmonster" a few with reliable engines will increase the value of those who kept them "pure". Honestly, you think if some poor schmuck throws a rod and has finally had it with the made from glass S85, you think he should give the car away for nothing and buy a 530 to Frankenstein instead? To what? Keep the breed pure?!?! Why? Because it's so precious? C'mon.....

Here's a thought... Let's say I have 1000 Blackberry shares. In 2008 they were worth $148 CAD/share but through the wonder of depreciation and horrible design, today they're only worth $12.12... Should I keep putting money into it and pretend they're still worth 148K?

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Buying the cars you can't keep up with, and making sound financial decisions? You are totally clueless, aren't you?
I'm not going to waste my time trying to chew it up for you so you could swallow. Its your car, do whatever the heck you want with it.

E36 1999 M3 Coupe Dakar Yellow/Black Vaders
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post #32 of 41 Old 25th March 2019, 11:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Matthew Cleary View Post
I'm just making an observation of fact. We do still exist. I bought mine new and don't plan on selling it ever. Having tested dozens of cars over the years nothing comes close. Even newer M models imho.

That's awesome Matthew. Tip of the hat to ya.

E36 1999 M3 Coupe Dakar Yellow/Black Vaders
E36 2000 M Coupe Cosmos Black/Black Leather, Shark, Conforti CAI, B&B Exhaust, H&R, Bilstein.
E39 2000 M5 Imola/Black Heritage
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post #33 of 41 Old 25th March 2019, 11:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TexaZ3 View Post
You are totally clueless, aren't you?

I'm not going to waste my time trying to chew it up for you so you could swallow. Its your car, do whatever the heck you want with it.
LOL hope you feel better.

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post #34 of 41 Old 25th March 2019, 11:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Kermudgen View Post
LOL hope you feel better.

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I'm splendid as always. Cheers.

E36 1999 M3 Coupe Dakar Yellow/Black Vaders
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E39 2000 M5 Imola/Black Heritage
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post #35 of 41 Old 26th March 2019, 01:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kermudgen View Post
Enter the LS SWAP!!!
The only thing is that these cars don't really have much to give outside of the configuration they were designed for. Firstly, chassis integration is going to be a nightmare. It'll cost the same to buy a super clean 2010 low mile e60 M5 as it will to actually get a well functional LS (or other common) swap down. So from a money perspective that argument just really is a moot point. Secondly, why would you spend that much money to put an LS in a sedan when you can buy a really nice low mile used Corvette that already has one that isn't going to be a Frankenstein hack job?

The reason no one has done it is plain. It's not worth it. These cars are the S85. Yes, it's expensive but I've owned track cars and street cars that are more than 50% aftermarket work/parts that are capable of just equal performance and they spend a lot more time getting wrenched on than my M6 does.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. There are plenty of cars out there that are cheap to own. Get a Camry if that's your interest. The e6x M cars give a super car presence. BMW basically said "f*** it" with these cars and built this crazy outlandishly over the top platform. Are they 100% stable and reliable. Hell no but who cares!
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post #36 of 41 Old 26th March 2019, 08:37 AM Thread Starter
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Well, I have to say this actually got a lot more interesting than I originally thought it would. I would just like to address some of the common themes here guys. I asked for some honest input, and I got some.

Yeah, it's not gonna be cheap and I never said it was going to be. I said that in the long run, it could be cheaper than an S85. If your vanos pump decides to have a bad hair day and turn in to a frag grenade, you could easily wreck your crank by the time you discovered it. Yeah, you could have it turned and get undersized bearings, or get a new crank. You're talking 3k here, 5k there, before you know it you're carrying the one....and you get the point. Maybe you get lucky and it's just the pump. That's still 3300 for the pump, couple hundred in fluids and other expendables, and if you aren't able to do it yourself the labor.



Someone mentioned the availability of "crate" motors for 8k, and lets clear this up; a "tested" engine for sale on ebay from a salvaged car is not a crate motor, its a gamble lol. Could be good, could be well, you know, an s85 being a diva. You just never know what's inside.



As far as an LS swap, hell yeah, it would be cool and even better to make some of you all with hurt feelings get really upset. That's actually my bread and butter and if I wasn't opposed to gutting and cutting on my car, I'd do it in a heartbeat. An LS swapped BMW is on my list of things I want to build, but not this one, it's just in too good of shape to go that route.



Circling back to the reason for an S65 instead of something else, there are a couple of reasons. Electronics compatibility is a big one. As Jim mentioned the pre LCI cars run EWS3 and the S65 runs EWS4. That's something that I think you could get past, and save the integrity of the OEM instrumentation. The S65 is not "basically an S85 sans 2 cylinders", it has a low pressure VANOS system which is far less problematic. Yeah, the rod and main bearings have issues, but so does the S85. I don't think expecting 50-60k miles on a set of bearings is unreasonable. But it does share a bolt pattern with the transmission and the motor mounts look similar. I would just but a used subframe to modify for the difference in length. Tuning wouldn't be an issue until it was modified, I would be integrating the S65 harness and DME into the E60 chassis. Not plug and play, but nowhere near as bad as trying to integrate something like an LS pcm.



Yeah, it wouldn't be cheap but it wouldn't be a far reach from buying a used S85 and doing rod bearings and whatever else it might need. If there was ever a time I decided to play Russian roulette with an S85 it should be possible. At any rate, I asked for some honest input and got it lol. I'm not ruling it out, but I'm also not ruling it out. Part of me wants to do it just to hurt some feelings.

PS- Don't get too sensitive here guys. Cars are supposed to be fun.

Last edited by schadjason; 26th March 2019 at 08:39 AM.
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post #37 of 41 Old 26th March 2019, 09:31 AM
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I'm for whatever. At least you're interested in keeping a BMW engine in it. However...

I can't say I know all the ins and outs of the S85/S65 platforms but I have or had a hand in building more than a few cars that involved engine swaps with significant mechanical and electrical needs to retain functionality and I do not see any way this gets done for less than the lifetime cost of maintaining an S85. The cost of custom fab work alone in just the simple stuff like mounts, exhaust, plumbing, etc. could probably pay for a couple rod bearing changes. It just doesn't seem realistic in any way.
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post #38 of 41 Old 26th March 2019, 04:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schadjason View Post
Well, I have to say this actually got a lot more interesting than I originally thought it would. I would just like to address some of the common themes here guys. I asked for some honest input, and I got some.

Yeah, it's not gonna be cheap and I never said it was going to be. I said that in the long run, it could be cheaper than an S85. If your vanos pump decides to have a bad hair day and turn in to a frag grenade, you could easily wreck your crank by the time you discovered it. Yeah, you could have it turned and get undersized bearings, or get a new crank. You're talking 3k here, 5k there, before you know it you're carrying the one....and you get the point. Maybe you get lucky and it's just the pump. That's still 3300 for the pump, couple hundred in fluids and other expendables, and if you aren't able to do it yourself the labor.



Someone mentioned the availability of "crate" motors for 8k, and lets clear this up; a "tested" engine for sale on ebay from a salvaged car is not a crate motor, its a gamble lol. Could be good, could be well, you know, an s85 being a diva. You just never know what's inside.



As far as an LS swap, hell yeah, it would be cool and even better to make some of you all with hurt feelings get really upset. That's actually my bread and butter and if I wasn't opposed to gutting and cutting on my car, I'd do it in a heartbeat. An LS swapped BMW is on my list of things I want to build, but not this one, it's just in too good of shape to go that route.



Circling back to the reason for an S65 instead of something else, there are a couple of reasons. Electronics compatibility is a big one. As Jim mentioned the pre LCI cars run EWS3 and the S65 runs EWS4. That's something that I think you could get past, and save the integrity of the OEM instrumentation. The S65 is not "basically an S85 sans 2 cylinders", it has a low pressure VANOS system which is far less problematic. Yeah, the rod and main bearings have issues, but so does the S85. I don't think expecting 50-60k miles on a set of bearings is unreasonable. But it does share a bolt pattern with the transmission and the motor mounts look similar. I would just but a used subframe to modify for the difference in length. Tuning wouldn't be an issue until it was modified, I would be integrating the S65 harness and DME into the E60 chassis. Not plug and play, but nowhere near as bad as trying to integrate something like an LS pcm.



Yeah, it wouldn't be cheap but it wouldn't be a far reach from buying a used S85 and doing rod bearings and whatever else it might need. If there was ever a time I decided to play Russian roulette with an S85 it should be possible. At any rate, I asked for some honest input and got it lol. I'm not ruling it out, but I'm also not ruling it out. Part of me wants to do it just to hurt some feelings.

PS- Don't get too sensitive here guys. Cars are supposed to be fun.

Fiscal utopia.

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E36 2000 M Coupe Cosmos Black/Black Leather, Shark, Conforti CAI, B&B Exhaust, H&R, Bilstein.
E39 2000 M5 Imola/Black Heritage
E46 2005 M3 Coupe ZCP Carbon Black/Black
E63 2006 M6 Coupe Indianapolis Red/Black/Madeira, Style 343
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post #39 of 41 Old 26th March 2019, 04:20 PM
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Just so I'm clear we're gonna spend more money than it takes to fix a problem on putting in a different engine with less power, that has it's own problems. Make sense. I guess

If you were gonna do that, go with the S62 reliable and more torque or pony up to an S63 or be a real man and move up to the the S70/2

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Last edited by Ferris; 26th March 2019 at 04:21 PM.
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post #40 of 41 Old 27th March 2019, 02:24 AM
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