E60 M5 vs E92 M3 Throttle Response and MDM - BMW M5 Forum and M6 Forums
E60 M5 and E61 M5 Touring Discussion 2005- Advertiser's Forum

 14Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
post #1 of 34 Old 21st January 2019, 12:39 AM Thread Starter
Beniki
Member
 
Beniki's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 32
Thanks: 4
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
E60 M5 vs E92 M3 Throttle Response and MDM

Hi all,


Long time lurker, first time poster! after 3.5 years of dreaming and procrastinating I finally purchased a 2006 E60 M5 SMG. The car is everything I hoped and dreamed it would be, and whilst I am trying to block out a lot of the noise from all the experts on the interwebs about reliability issues, I do have a healthy allocation of contingency funds for the inevitable repairs (...this is not my first older BMW).
All that aside, I have a question regarding throttle response and MDM:
I took the car for its first proper spirited drive in the hills yesterday with a friend in his Cayman GTS and a friend with an E92 M3 DCT. The M3 has primary cat delete with aftermarket mid pipes (stock rear box), and a tune (I cannot recall which one).

Driving the E92 M3 back to back with my M5 made me realise I need an aftermarket exhaust, but also that the M5 feels a lot tamer with regards to the amount of slip that MDM allows and much less aggressive with regards to throttle response (even in P500 sport). The MDM of the E92 in a straight line feels more like ESC off in the E60.

I feel that in the M3 in MDM in combination with the more sensitive throttle, the car feels more visceral than the M5 with power feeling more linear, especially at the lower end. Has any one else experienced this?
I realise that MDM tuning is what it is, however will I be able to match the throttle response of the S65 with a tune, such as FAMS?


Ben
Beniki is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 34 Old 21st January 2019, 01:19 AM
M V10 Power
Member, P500 Sport, DSC On (>700)
 
M V10 Power's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Delaware
Posts: 716
Thanks: 35
Thanked 51 Times in 52 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beniki View Post
Hi all,


Long time lurker, first time poster! after 3.5 years of dreaming and procrastinating I finally purchased a 2006 E60 M5 SMG. The car is everything I hoped and dreamed it would be, and whilst I am trying to block out a lot of the noise from all the experts on the interwebs about reliability issues, I do have a healthy allocation of contingency funds for the inevitable repairs (...this is not my first older BMW).
All that aside, I have a question regarding throttle response and MDM:
I took the car for its first proper spirited drive in the hills yesterday with a friend in his Cayman GTS and a friend with an E92 M3 DCT. The M3 has primary cat delete with aftermarket mid pipes (stock rear box), and a tune (I cannot recall which one).

Driving the E92 M3 back to back with my M5 made me realise I need an aftermarket exhaust, but also that the M5 feels a lot tamer with regards to the amount of slip that MDM allows and much less aggressive with regards to throttle response (even in P500 sport). The MDM of the E92 in a straight line feels more like ESC off in the E60.

I feel that in the M3 in MDM in combination with the more sensitive throttle, the car feels more visceral than the M5 with power feeling more linear, especially at the lower end. Has any one else experienced this?
I realise that MDM tuning is what it is, however will I be able to match the throttle response of the S65 with a tune, such as FAMS?


Ben


Best tuning for the E60 M5 hands down is Evolve. FAM is good but conservative. M3 is a fun car, did you line it up with your E60 to see how you compare head to head with it? Some V10 struggle to beat bolt on E92 M3s


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
M V10 Power is offline  
post #3 of 34 Old 21st January 2019, 01:48 AM Thread Starter
Beniki
Member
 
Beniki's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 32
Thanks: 4
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
No unfortunately the stretches of roads we were on were not well suited to such a comparison. That being said, we did once accelerate side by side a few weeks ago entering a highway and it was pretty close for the first two gears, with the M3 taking a half a car length jump at gear-change.

I have of course heard much about Evolve, however I have not read much into the details of their tune. Any feedback on how the throttle response is affected?
Beniki is offline  
 
post #4 of 34 Old 21st January 2019, 02:55 AM
M V10 Power
Member, P500 Sport, DSC On (>700)
 
M V10 Power's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Delaware
Posts: 716
Thanks: 35
Thanked 51 Times in 52 Posts
E60 M5 vs E92 M3 Throttle Response and MDM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beniki View Post
No unfortunately the stretches of roads we were on were not well suited to such a comparison. That being said, we did once accelerate side by side a few weeks ago entering a highway and it was pretty close for the first two gears, with the M3 taking a half a car length jump at gear-change.

I have of course heard much about Evolve, however I have not read much into the details of their tune. Any feedback on how the throttle response is affected?


Awe I see. Sounds like it was great time! Iíve had my car since new in 08 and seen a good amount of different versions of M5/M6 with different tuners. Iíve driven almost every car that had different tunes and by far Evolve was superior, with FAM right behind it.... Iíve been very impressed with mine and love it...


Me vs a FBo e90 M3 on race gas.... Check out more on the page. Evolve FTW and throttle response man! I have it tuned for max throttle response.

https://youtu.be/qNr4blKxTcM




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Last edited by M V10 Power; 21st January 2019 at 02:56 AM.
M V10 Power is offline  
post #5 of 34 Old 21st January 2019, 10:32 AM
Craze
Member, P500 Sport, MDM on (>800)
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 809
Thanks: 4
Thanked 35 Times in 33 Posts
Tune and eventuri intakes and some rear mufflers change the experience

While its good stock, once above is done its a different animal

Then sort the suspension and its amazing

M5 E60 Silverstone, evolve tune, eventuri intake
Craze is offline  
post #6 of 34 Old 21st January 2019, 11:27 AM
Hasan Shaikh
M5 Expert (>4000)
 
Hasan Shaikh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: UAE
Age: 40
Posts: 7,013
Thanks: 2,941
Thanked 1,149 Times in 923 Posts
Throttle response on these cars is all electronically managed. So you can tell the car to open the throttle bodies 100% when you press the pedal 50%. A car with cat delete and a good tune will feel a lot lighter. A car with the 3.91 final drive, even more so.

I have always hated the MDM on these cars. The amount of slip the MDM allows primarily depends on speed difference between the tyres, the yaw rate, the throttle position and the steering angle. A good alignment is always a must to get good traction.

The M3 has a better feel to it because of its shorter wheel base and less weight. Its almost impossible to beat weight with HP when it comes to driving dynamics.

Did you drive the Cayman?
Hasan Shaikh is offline  
post #7 of 34 Old 22nd January 2019, 11:42 PM Thread Starter
Beniki
Member
 
Beniki's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 32
Thanks: 4
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
I am really surprised by the lack of slip in MDM, but then again it may also just be my tyres - I find that my car hooks up very well compared to the videos of other M5s I have seen. The only time I have felt lots of wheel spin in the M5 was when I tried LC (it was insane... should really be called BC - burnout control).
I have indeed driven the Cayman; it is everything one expects a mid-engined, manual naturally aspirated Porsche to be - perfect.
Beniki is offline  
post #8 of 34 Old 30th January 2019, 05:16 AM
M V10 Power
Member, P500 Sport, DSC On (>700)
 
M V10 Power's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Delaware
Posts: 716
Thanks: 35
Thanked 51 Times in 52 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beniki View Post
I am really surprised by the lack of slip in MDM, but then again it may also just be my tyres - I find that my car hooks up very well compared to the videos of other M5s I have seen. The only time I have felt lots of wheel spin in the M5 was when I tried LC (it was insane... should really be called BC - burnout control).
I have indeed driven the Cayman; it is everything one expects a mid-engined, manual naturally aspirated Porsche to be - perfect.


Tires makes all the difference.... I run toyo R888R and NEVER spin.... Sticky is understatement




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
M V10 Power is offline  
post #9 of 34 Old 30th January 2019, 05:24 AM Thread Starter
Beniki
Member
 
Beniki's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 32
Thanks: 4
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Beniki is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to Beniki For This Useful Post:
M V10 Power (16th February 2019)
post #10 of 34 Old 30th January 2019, 04:13 PM
4151zero
Member, Sport: Off DSC: On (>50 posts)
 
4151zero's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Posts: 73
Thanks: 2
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Garage
How are the 888r's in damp conditions, or rain for that matter?

I doubt your beast see's any salt or snow !
4151zero is offline  
Reply

Bookmarks

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the BMW M5 Forum and M6 Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in











Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Linear Mode Linear Mode
Rate This Thread:



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
How to code MDM III (Competition MDM) stephenf121 E60 M5 and E61 M5 Touring Discussion 9 27th September 2017 04:18 PM
Test: M3 E30 vs M3 E36 vs M3 E46 vs M3 E92 Just_me E90 M3 Sedan, E92 M3 Coupe, E93 M3 Convertible, E46 M3 and E36 M3, Z4 M and Z4 M Coupe 4 23rd August 2008 11:17 AM

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome