New Oil Change: 48 hrs later, OIL BELOW MINIMUM, limp, De-powered, rough and stumbling - BMW M5 Forum and M6 Forums
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post #1 of 31 Old 16th October 2017, 12:12 AM Thread Starter
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Exclamation New Oil Change: 48 hrs later, OIL BELOW MINIMUM, limp, De-powered, rough and stumbling

help! I was travelling on i-5 in Seattle the other night, on the 2nd evening after a fresh oil change (Royal Purple) over from Quartz. My last change was inspected by Blackstone Labs and all clear. 160,000 miles on this 2008 beast!! I used an indy garage this time who seemed very familiar with the model. btw... this car is running a stage III dinan tune, dinan air boxes, supersprint headers and full meisterschaft exhast from the headers back. (it's insanely loud and screams like a raped ape.)

So - after 2 days (post oil change) of driving on max and 30 minutes after the start of this particular outing, i get a red dash, OIL BELOW MINIMUM and de-powered into limp mode. I immediately pull over (30 seconds) and not a drip under the car... I expected a bit of a flood but nothing. I could not see anything wet underneath or on the asphalt and layed there on the ground for 2 minutes with an LED headlamp.

I go ahead and journey the 2 more miles home, motor stumbling quite noticeably and I'm trying to keep the revs under 3k... wondering if I am melting my crank but the temp stays normal. I've been reading lately about the interior VANOS lines and wondering if that is it. In addition I am getting other INPA errors... I have a German version and if anyone can relate or help, much is appreciated.

This list of errors is pre-clearing them and Google translating... I assume I will always be running cat codes without my catalytic converters. Can anyone tell me what tool to use to diagnose the lengthy "2 digit" codes?

F E H E R S P E I C H E R L E S E N ---------------------------------------
Date: 03.01.1980 23:22:46 JobStatus: OKAY Version: MS_S65_2.PRG Version: 2.000
-------------------------------------------------- -----------------------------
RESULT: 16 Error in error memory!
-------------------------------------------------- -----------------------------
0x2789 Catalyst Conversion Bank 1
P0420 Catalyst system (bank 1) - efficiency below threshold
Frequency of errors: 12 Logistics meters: 40
1. Environment kilometer distance 236800 km engine speed 2464.00 rpm relative filling 0.25 - CAT diagnostic value B1 2.91 - KAT conversion B1 and B2 1.11 -
2. Environment kilometer distance 238032 km engine speed 2877.00 rpm relative filling 0.37 - CAT diagnostic value B1 2.67 - CAT conversion B1 and B2 1.64 -
3. Environment kilometer distance 257752 km engine speed 3105.00 rpm relative filling 0.40 - CAT diagnostic value B1 3.11 - CAT conversion B1 and B2 1.26 -
Value above Threshold Test conditions fulfilled Fault presently present, OBD debounced Error would cause the warning lamp (MIL) to light up
Error code: 27 89 E1 04 20 0C 28 73 A0 09 A0 09 B9 BA 6B 47 25 74 3A 0B 3D 0E 44 AB 05 69 3B 7D DB 0C 21 0F B4 C7 11 50 77
-------------------------------------------------- -----------------------------
0x278A Catalyst Conversion Bank 2
P0430 Catalyst System (Bank 2) - Efficiency below Threshold
Error rate: 42 Logistics counter: 40
1. Environmental distance Mileage 236888 km Engine speed 3102.00 RPM Relative fill 0.33 - CAT Diagnostic value B2 1.14 - CAT Conversion B1 and B2 1.26 -
2. Environmental distance Mileage 237080 km Engine speed 2384.00 RPM Relative filling 0.22 -

CAT Diagnostic value B2 1.15 - CAT Conversion B1 and B2 1.65 -
3. Environmental distance Mileage 258720 km Engine speed 3244.00 RPM relative fill 0.38 - CAT Diagnostic value B2 1.13 - CAT Conversion B1 and B2 1.20 -
Value above Threshold Test conditions fulfilled Error present not present, OBD debounced Error would cause the warning lamp (MIL) to light up
Error code: 27 8A A1 04 30 2A 28 73 AB 0C 1E 0C C7 48 E9 50 66 73 C3 09 50 08 84 49 6D 69 6D 7E 54 0C AC 0E B1 48 6D 4C 86
-------------------------------------------------- -----------------------------
0x2B59 Coolant thermostat monitoring FS_LESEN_DETAIL: IFH-0010: DATATRANSMISSION TO CONTROLUNIT DISTURBED
-------------------------------------------------- -----------------------------
0x2B53 Additional oil pump bench 2
Error frequency: 1 Logistics counter: 40
Mileage 239536 km Engine speed 4091.00 rpm Filling ratio 0.08 - Engine temperature 76.80 C Battery voltage KL87 13.70 Volt
Line interruption Test conditions fulfilled Fault present, not yet OBD debounced Fault does not cause the warning light (MIL)
Error code: 2B 53 44 00 00 01 28 74 F6 0F FB 02 F9 0D AC 00 89
-------------------------------------------------- -----------------------------
0x2B63 INDEX_107_IGN
Error frequency: 1 Logistics counter: 13
Mileage 257664 km Engine speed 899.00 rpm Filling 0.56 - Engine temperature 21.60 C Battery voltage KL87 125.00 Volt
Value below threshold Test conditions fulfilled Fault presently not present, not OBD debounced Fault would cause the warning lamp (MIL) to light up
Error code: 2B 63 82 00 00 01 0D 7D D0 03 83 16 04 0B 84 04 E2
-------------------------------------------------- -----------------------------
0x2B4E Combustion Exhaust several cyl
Fault frequency: 1 Logistics counter: 9

Mileage 257664 km Engine speed at misfire 849.00 rpm Filling at misfire 0.55 - Ignition angle Cyl1 at misfire 1.10 KW Integral ion conductance Cyl1 at misfire 0.00 nSs
Multiple Expanders 1. Cycl. Test conditions fulfilled Fault presently not available, not OBD debounced Fault would cause the warning lamp (MIL) to light up
Error code: 2B 4E 84 00 00 01 09 7D D0 03 51 15 9A 00 0B 00 00
-------------------------------------------------- -----------------------------
0x27C1 InfoTank blank if error occurs
Fault frequency: 1 Logistics counter: 9
Mileage 257664 km Tank fill level 3.00 L Encoder value right tank capacity 3.00 L Lateral acceleration DSC 1.02 m / s * s Fuel pressure relative 6.12 bar
Sum filling level low Test conditions fulfilled Error present not present, not OBD debounced Error does not cause the warning lamp to flash (MIL)
Error code: 27 C1 02 00 00 01 09 7D D0 00 06 00 06 00 29 17 E7
-------------------------------------------------- -----------------------------
0x2AFA Coolant temperature sensor Plausibility
Error frequency: 1 Logistics counter: 36
Mileage 259320 km Engine speed 4577.00 rpm Air mass flow B1 and B2 347.70 kg / h Engine temperature 62.10 C Cooling water temperature Model 75.70 C
Sensor hangs Test conditions fulfilled Error presently not present, not OBD debounced Error would cause the warning lamp (MIL) to light up
Error code: 2A FA 82 00 00 01 24 7E 11F 11 E1 0D 95 0D 19 0D A1
-------------------------------------------------- -----------------------------
0x27B1 Secondary system throughput bank 2
Error frequency: 1 Logistics counter: 40
Mileage 259400 km OBD-SLS Standard deviation. Integral max 0.44 kg / h OBD-SLS Standard deviation. Integral min 0.26 kg / h OBD-SLS Standard Lam deviation. Integral 0.88 - * s Ambient temperature 16.50 C
Line Bank 2 leaking

Test conditions fulfilled Error present, not yet OBD debounced Error would cause the warning lamp (MIL) to light up
Error code: 27 B1 C8 00 00 01 28 7E A9 01 B3 01 06 38 64 0B 51
-------------------------------------------------- -----------------------------
0x2748 Lambdasonde Diag.ueber ATIC42 building block VKAT Bank1
Error rate: 98 Logistics counter: 40
1. Environmental distance Mileage 259400 km Motor speed 1200.00 rpm ATIC42 Diagnostic byte probe VKAT B1 8.00 - ATIC42 Diagnostic probe VKAT B1 0.00 - Battery voltage KL87 13.70 Volt
2. Environmental distance Mileage 259400 km Motor speed 4515.00 rpm ATIC42 Diagnostic byte probe VKAT B1 8.00 - ATIC42 Diagnostic probe VKAT B1 0.00 - Battery voltage KL87 13.70 Volt
3. Environmental distance Mileage 259552 km Engine speed 1263.00 rpm ATIC42 Diagnostic byte probe VKAT B1 8.00 - ATIC42 Diagnostic probe VKAT B1 0.00 - Battery voltage KL87 13.80 Volt
VP-LIMITATION Test conditions fulfilled Error present not present, not OBD debounced Error causes no warning lamp (MIL)
Error code: 27 48 02 00 00 62 28 7E A9 04 B0 00 08 00 00 00 89 7E A9 11 A3 00 08 00 00 00 89 7E BC 04 EF 00 08 00 00 00 8A
-------------------------------------------------- -----------------------------
0x274A Lambdasoning pump current compensation error VKAT Bank 1
P2626 Lambdasoning pump current compensation line Circuit (bank 1, before catalytic converter) - Malfunction or line interruption
Error frequency: 1 Logistics counter: 40
Mileage 259416 km Motordrehzahl 3684.00 RPM relative filling 0.08 - AD transducer probe signal VKAT B1 4995.12 mV corr filtered AD value probe resistance VKAT B1 1103.52 mV
IA_OPENLOAD Test conditions fulfilled Fault presently present, OBD debounced Error would cause the warning lamp (MIL) to light up
Error code: 27 4A E4 26 26 01 28 7E AB 0E 64 03 06 03 FF 00 E2
-------------------------------------------------- -----------------------------
0x279E Oel quality sensor

Error frequency: 1 Logistics counter: 40
Mileage 259544 km Engine speed 2705.00 rpm Engine condition TL 0-n Raw value Oil level measurement from the sensor 75.67 mm Battery voltage KL87 13.60 Volt
OEL level too low Test conditions fulfilled Fault presently not available, not OBD debounced Fault does not cause the warning light (MIL)
Error code: 27 9E 02 00 00 01 28 7E BB 0A 91 00 20 00 FF 00 88
-------------------------------------------------- -----------------------------
0x2B49 Combustion Exhaust Gas Exhaust. Cyl
P0308 Incineration detected - Cylinder 8
Error frequency: 1 Logistics counter: 40
Mileage 259544 km engine speed at misfire 2931.00 rpm relative filling at misfire 0.49 - ignition angle Zyl8 at misfire 24.90 KW integral ion conductance Cyl8 at misfire 9.45 nSs
End-of-day translation 1. Cykl. Test conditions fulfilled Fault presently present, OBD debounced Error would cause the warning lamp (MIL) to light up
Error code: 2B 49 E2 03 08 01 28 7E BB 0B 73 13 42 00 F9 01 E2
-------------------------------------------------- -----------------------------
0x2B3C Incinerator with shut - off Cyl 8
P0308 Incineration detected - Cylinder 8
Frequency of errors: 2 Logistics meters: 40
1. Environmental distance Mileage 259544 km Engine speed at misfire 3669.00 rpm Filling at misfire 0.21 - Ignition angle Cyl8 at misfire 46.40 KW Integral ion conductance Cyl8 at misfire 63.86 nSs
2. Environmental distance Mileage 259552 km Engine speed at misfire 1125.00 rpm Filling at misfire 0.54 - Ignition angle Zyl8 at misfire -2.60 KW Integral ion conductance Cyl8 at misfire 29.61 nSs
Encoder failure Test conditions fulfilled Fault presently present, OBD debounced Error would cause the warning lamp (MIL) to light up
Error code: 2B 3C E2 03 08 02 28 7E BB 0E 55 08 40 01 D0 0C B9 7E BC 04 65 14 EF FF E6 05 E6

-------------------------------------------------- -----------------------------
0x2B57 Motorbot program activated
Frequency of errors: 2 Logistics meters: 40
1. Environmental distance Mileage 259544 km Motordrehzahl 3661.00 RPM relative fill 0.21 - Battery voltage KL87 13.80 Volt SK Cause injection monitoring 0-n
2. Environmental distance Mileage 259552 km Motordrehzahl 1116.00 RPM relative fill 0.53 - Battery voltage KL87 11.60 Volt SK Cause injection monitoring 0-n
Injection fade-out Test conditions fulfilled Error present not present, not OBD debounced Error does not cause the warning lamp to flash (MIL)
Error code: 2B 57 02 00 00 02 28 7E BB 0E 4D 08 47 00 8A 00 04 7E BC 04 5C 14 AF 00 74 00 04 --------------------- -------------------------------------------------- --------
0x2796 Motornot program activated
Frequency of errors: 2 Logistics meters: 40
1. Environmental distance Mileage 259544 km Engine speed 3662.00 rpm Filling 0.21 - Battery voltage KL87 13.70 Volt SK Cause injection monitoring 0-n
2. Environmental distance Mileage 259552 km Engine speed 1109.00 rpm Filling 0.53 - Battery voltage KL87 11.50 Volt SK Cause injection monitoring 0-n
Injection fade-out Test conditions fulfilled Error present not present, not OBD debounced Error does not cause the warning lamp to flash (MIL)
Error code: 27 96 02 00 00 02 28 7E BB 0E 4E 08 4C 00 89 00 04 7E BC 04 55 14 A4 00 73 00 04 ================================================== ======================

After clearing with INPA, I ran the car for about 3 minutes in park and pulled them again. still no change in oil level... either the sensor is not working, or the interior hose is wasted... or I lost so much oil so fast that it is a new world record... here are the codes post clearing:

READ ERROR MEMORY
---------------------------------------
Date: 03.01.1980 23:49:46 JobStatus: OKAY Variant: MS_S65_2.PRG Version: 2.000
-------------------------------------------------- -----------------------------
RESULT: 5 Error in error memory!
-------------------------------------------------- -----------------------------
0x2B3C Incinerator with shut - off Cyl 8
Error frequency: 1 logistics counter: 80
Mileage 259552 km Engine speed at misfire 1200.00 rpm Filling at misfire 0.55 - Ignition angle Zyl8 at misfire -3.10 KW Integral ion conductance Cyl8 at misfire 50.47 nSs
Final test conditions not yet fulfilled Error present, not yet OBD debounced Error would cause the warning lamp (MIL) to light up
Error code: 2B 3C D2 00 00 01 50 7E BC 04 B0 15 59 FF E1 0A 0E
-------------------------------------------------- -----------------------------
0x2B57 Motorbot program activated
Error frequency: 1 Logistics counter: 40
Mileage 259552 km Engine speed 1187.00 rpm Filling 0.55 - Battery voltage KL87 13.20 Volt SK Cause injection monitoring 0-n
Injection suppression Test conditions not yet fulfilled Error present not present, not OBD debounced Error causes no warning lamp (MIL)
Error code: 2B 57 12 00 00 01 28 7E BC 04 A3 15 79 00 84 00 04
-------------------------------------------------- -----------------------------
0x2796 Motornot program activated
Error frequency: 1 Logistics counter: 40
Mileage 259552 km Engine speed 1187.00 rpm Filling 0.55 - Battery voltage KL87 13.20 Volt SK Cause injection monitoring 0-n
Injection suppression Test conditions not yet fulfilled Error present not present, not OBD debounced Error causes no warning lamp (MIL)
Error code: 27 96 12 00 00 01 28 7E BC 04 A3 15 79 00 84 00 04
-------------------------------------------------- -----------------------------
0x2748 Lambdasonde Diag.ueber ATIC42 building block VKAT Bank1
Error frequency: 1 Logistics counter: 40
Mileage 259552 km Engine speed 1814.00 rpm ATIC42 Diagnostic byte probe VKAT B1 8.00 - ATIC42 Diagnostic probe VKAT B1 0.00 - Battery voltage KL87 13.80 Volt
VP-LIMITATION Test conditions fulfilled Error present not present, not OBD debounced Error causes no warning lamp (MIL)
Error code: 27 48 02 00 00 01 28 7E BC 07 16 00 08 00 00 00 8A
-------------------------------------------------- -----------------------------
0x2B49 Combustion Exhaust Gas Exhaust. Cyl
Error frequency: 1 logistics counter: 80
Mileage 259552 km Engine speed at misfire 1200.00 rpm Filling at misfire 0.55 - Ignition angle Zyl8 at misfire -3.10 KW Integral ion conductance Cyl8 at misfire 50.47 nSs
End-of-day translation 1. Cykl. Test conditions not yet fulfilled Error present, not yet OBD debounced Error would cause the warning lamp (MIL) to light up
Error code: 2B 49 D2 00 00 01 50 7E BC 04 B0 15 59 FF E1 0A 0E
================================================== =============================

-Neonguy

2008 Dinan SIII M5, Supersprint Headers, Meisterschaft Exhaust, Dinan Intakes and pulley
2013 Ducati Panigale
2000 Ford Lightning
1977 Kawasaki highly modded 750 Jet Ski
2016 JetSurf
2009 CLS550 AMG

Last edited by neonguy; 16th October 2017 at 12:24 AM.
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post #2 of 31 Old 16th October 2017, 12:34 AM
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New Oil Change: 48 hrs later, OIL BELOW MINIMUM, limp, De-powered, rough and...

This is why I do my own oil.

I would do this: Drop out the oil and see how much it is. It feels like you did not have enough oil to begin with. It got so low the ECU deemed it unsafe. Start over and put 8 quarts in. Measured after getting it to temp and top it off to full. Measure again.

While you drop your oil out into a slanted flat black surface and look for metal flakes. If there is none you should be alright. Get a good oil catch pan. If you have flakes you are in trouble.

My estimation is that you had a major air bubble somewhere and Indy thought it was full but it wasn't. He did not top it off properly. Once the air bubble cleared you end up drastically below level. If you did not find oil below the car.

And by the way: Use stock 10W-60 oil.

Clear the codes. Drive it for a bit. If the oil was very low the system was sucking air and the VANOS could not adjust properly causing misfires. It is all about clean and enough oil in this car.

Last edited by rt7085; 16th October 2017 at 12:45 AM.
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post #3 of 31 Old 16th October 2017, 05:55 AM Thread Starter
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thanks rt7085 - I'm going to do just that (drain, measure and inspect for flakes) After considering towing it to a witness garage, I figured it would be nearly impossible to prove they did anything wrong but I would be more than pissed if they used another oil than what they promised.

Question for you: is the high pressure internal Vanos line a difficult swap? and after a recall wouldn't an 08 edition be fairly immune? Or, with this many miles should I expect a torn line?

Also - is there a readily available source for a dual vanos test-line and gauge? thanks!
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post #4 of 31 Old 16th October 2017, 08:26 AM
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post #5 of 31 Old 16th October 2017, 08:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neonguy View Post
Question for you: is the high pressure internal Vanos line a difficult swap? and after a recall wouldn't an 08 edition be fairly immune? Or, with this many miles should I expect a torn line?

An 08 should have the upgraded metal internal high pressure vanos line which are not known to fail.
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post #6 of 31 Old 16th October 2017, 03:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hasan Shaikh View Post
An 08 should have the upgraded metal internal high pressure vanos line which are not known to fail.
Unfortunately Hasan, there was no upgrade. All years have the identical line internal and the forced flexure of the hard pipe to braided transition to clear the crank nose is a stress concentration point. Eventually, most all will leak.
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post #7 of 31 Old 16th October 2017, 03:37 PM
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OP:

Keep in mind the Oil Sensor works based off of conductivity. There are different algorithms based on the oil in use. For example, during new engine break in with break in oil, the DME is set not only for a 1200 mi break in interval, but the conductivity parameters are different as well. In your earlier error code read, there was an oil sensor error.

If it were my own car, I would drain the Royal Purple and fill with TWS or LM 10-60, one of the oils with a large use-case history here with little known problems.
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post #8 of 31 Old 17th October 2017, 12:08 AM
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post #9 of 31 Old 17th October 2017, 03:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jcolley View Post
OP:

Keep in mind the Oil Sensor works based off of conductivity. There are different algorithms based on the oil in use. For example, during new engine break in with break in oil, the DME is set not only for a 1200 mi break in interval, but the conductivity parameters are different as well. In your earlier error code read, there was an oil sensor error.

If it were my own car, I would drain the Royal Purple and fill with TWS or LM 10-60, one of the oils with a large use-case history here with little known problems.
Actually the oil sensor appears to work and I -think- it caused the limp mode. It is reporting a very low reading, at least, that is the way I read it. I have never tried this, but when it is very low, would the DME kick itself into RPM limiting? Makes sense.... The oil is very low: That why I think the engine run like crap because he was sucking air into his VANOS pump. So, cam adjustment were probably none to speak off, causing misfires. There are also a lot of codes that may have nothing to do with this issue. Such as the thermostat code. This engine needs a little TLC if it ain't damaged. I don't think it is. Just fill it up with the right soup.

Last edited by rt7085; 17th October 2017 at 03:17 AM.
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post #10 of 31 Old 17th October 2017, 09:41 AM Thread Starter
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has anyone made their own steel internal vanos line? with a couple buddies in the aerospace biz, they could bend me up a solid line pretty easily. Or, does the line have to flex in order to install it? I guess it's time I start watching some videos...

-Neonguy

2008 Dinan SIII M5, Supersprint Headers, Meisterschaft Exhaust, Dinan Intakes and pulley
2013 Ducati Panigale
2000 Ford Lightning
1977 Kawasaki highly modded 750 Jet Ski
2016 JetSurf
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