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post #11 of 18 Old 10th September 2016, 03:48 PM Thread Starter
cteclipse
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I'm leaning towards doing this in the Fall. Hoping highway driving at 75MPH isn't too affected/loud.
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post #12 of 18 Old 12th September 2016, 07:33 PM
KenL
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cteclipse View Post
Has anyone on here actually put the 4.10 diff on their 6spd M5? I've researched for months and the best I've found is they know someone who knows someone who installed one. I love my 08 IB 6SPD M5 but have been pretty disappointed for daily driving with it. I have a pulley, Corsa sect 3, and Brentune (which helped quite a bit actually, and great customer service!).

My main problem is just the lack of low-mid end power, primarily when taking turns at normal speeds. On ramps at 40mph used to be a blast in my E39 M5, E36 m3, and my 335I with JB4. In this car/gearing though it's just not in the powerband. Yes, we all know the E60 M5 can't be touched on a long straight highway. That's not where I get the most pleasure out of my driving.

My last hope before selling to get an M4 or similar would be the 4.10 diff in to get more use out of the RPM range. I hear good things about the 3.91 but don't think it will be enough of what I'm looking for. Can anyone chime in the good and bad of 4.10? Does it kill the highway practicality? Thanks!
I have a bit of previous experience with this matter. I tried to install a 4.10 ring and pinion in my '10 SMG E60 (BEFORE Turner said it wouldn't work) and indeed it wouldn't meaning the ECU and TCU wouldn't let it work.(Check Turner's website and if they currently say it will work on a 6-speed E60 then you should be good.)

So I returned the 4.10 in exchange for the 3.90s and they worked fine although the installation is a little tricky and time-consuming. I am told by some tuners that they can make the computers accept the 4.10s in an SMG car with some coding but that remains to be seen. My 3.90s did make a significant difference and either gear will make a difference for you as well, however a couple of things you should be aware of before you pull the trigger. The gears have to be broken in and as I recall it was something like 1000 miles or so to do it right. I also had a slight whine at certain rpms that couldn't be tuned or adjusted out though this is not uncommon when you swap out a ring and pinion. What might be a bigger issue for you is the increased rpms at cruising speeds. I don't recall the increase but Google "Wallace Racing" and check out the calculators there. You can play around with them but in general it's a linear relationship so going to a 4.10 from a 3.62, about a 13% change, should bump the rpms up the same 13%.

For reference my 3.90s cut my 1/4 mile ETs (11.50s at 123.6; 151 in the 1/2 mile) by a little over 0.3 seconds but check out my video on Fluidmotorunions's YouTube section to see how fast it got through the gears-with 8,400 redline shifts I think I was in third gear in a little over four seconds, the other mods notwithstanding. Point being, you will definitely feel how well the car responds to the gears.

Safe racing,
KenL

2010 BMW E60 M5 SMG Carbon Black/Black

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post #13 of 18 Old 12th September 2016, 07:54 PM
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I almost went to a 4.10 after my Dinan 3.91 EXPLODED. Details of my current 3.91 diff are in my signature.

4.10 6MT thread is here:

https://www.m5board.com/vbulletin/e63...installed.html

~Woody

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s85 + (afterthought) 6mt =162,000 miles with no RCOD and counting ...just saying...

2007 Dinan S2 e60 m5 6MT Interlagos Blue; DINAN 3.91 Exploded @8x,xxx ; Performance Gearing 3.91 LSD 3 clutch, 30/50 ramps, R&P polished ; ClutchMasters FX350 clutch and LTW single mass FW @157,000 miles, RPi Oil Cooler/Scoops; DINAN High Flow Air Mass Meter/Intake, DINAN TBs, DINAN pulley, DINAN strut, DINAN Monoballs, FastAttack Tune, w/Kung Fu grip!, Einhorn Industries Race Jedders, track pipe, and x-pipe; DINAN Section 3, DINAN LTW 19x9 ET18, 19x10 ET25, Michelin PS4S 275/35/19 and 305/30/19, Macht Schnell 15mm spacers (front); FERODO FRP3000H race pads; StopTech BBK 6/4 380mm/35mm x 380mm/32mm w/SS lines; RDSport F/R sways; MCS 2WNR motorsport coilover, -2.0/-2.5 F/R camber; z3 1.9L SSK, with f10 shifter; F/R G1W-H; Uniden R1, remote ALP 2Rx:1Tx, F/R NetRadar DSP, w/GPS and BT. SprintBooster v3; Euro MDM and DSC off. Fluids: Motul 7100 4T 10w60, Redline ShockProof Lightweight 75w140, Castrol SRF, Unicorn Jizz and Wolfpack Blood; Rod bearings replaced at 84,000 and 150,000 miles!!!

1988 e28 m5 STROKER 420bhp 91 octane(Paul Burke s38b39); VAC LTW flywheel; MegaSquirt G2 DME; Nuke Performance fuel rail and pressure regulator, Carbon Fiber CSL intake; Lifeline Zero 360 FIA 3.0kg Novec fire suppression; Cool Shirt Pro Air/Water system; Euro RestoMod track car: caged, 6 point Schroth FIA harness, FIA Sparco Ergo & Sabelt GT-160 seats...AC/heater, interior, sunroof, rear seat delete; Euro Headers, dump valve, and race cats; CAE Ultra shifter; custom Ground Control Coilovers/camber plates; Mason Engineering front/rear strut bars; Brembo 6/4 BBK; 17x9 BBS Style 42 w/Michelin Cup 2; undergoing Euro restoration, building the e28 CSL ///Motorsport never built. 5.71lbs/hp

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post #14 of 18 Old 27th September 2016, 03:38 PM
Elie Malak
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fiftytwoeighty View Post
I almost went to a 4.10 after my Dinan 3.91 EXPLODED. Details of my current 3.91 diff are in my signature.

4.10 6MT thread is here:

https://www.m5board.com/vbulletin/e63...installed.html
where can i buy a 4.1 r&p for my 08 6speed and what should i purchase as well that needs to be changed .. (seals, gaskets etc)

thanks again

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post #15 of 18 Old 27th September 2016, 06:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elie Malak View Post
where can i buy a 4.1 r&p for my 08 6speed and what should i purchase as well that needs to be changed .. (seals, gaskets etc)

thanks again

You can buy it from TMS.

https://www.turnermotorsport.com/p-2...e46-m3-e60-m5/

You will need to replace all bearings and diff fluid.
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post #16 of 18 Old 28th September 2016, 06:12 PM
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Glad to see you still visit m5board @KenL !

I had the TMS 3.91 gears swapped into my stock LSD. I also hear a slight whine around 70-80mph, but I've gotten used to it.

Best bang for the buck mod, IMO. They call it the "poor man's supercharger". In the end I paid slightly over $2000 USD for the diff. That's parts and labor (TMS 3.91 R&P, seals, diff fluid).

I've been able to beat a ESS VT2-650 6MT M5 (on stock 3.62) multiple times.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KenL View Post
I have a bit of previous experience with this matter. I tried to install a 4.10 ring and pinion in my '10 SMG E60 (BEFORE Turner said it wouldn't work) and indeed it wouldn't meaning the ECU and TCU wouldn't let it work.(Check Turner's website and if they currently say it will work on a 6-speed E60 then you should be good.)

So I returned the 4.10 in exchange for the 3.90s and they worked fine although the installation is a little tricky and time-consuming. I am told by some tuners that they can make the computers accept the 4.10s in an SMG car with some coding but that remains to be seen. My 3.90s did make a significant difference and either gear will make a difference for you as well, however a couple of things you should be aware of before you pull the trigger. The gears have to be broken in and as I recall it was something like 1000 miles or so to do it right. I also had a slight whine at certain rpms that couldn't be tuned or adjusted out though this is not uncommon when you swap out a ring and pinion. What might be a bigger issue for you is the increased rpms at cruising speeds. I don't recall the increase but Google "Wallace Racing" and check out the calculators there. You can play around with them but in general it's a linear relationship so going to a 4.10 from a 3.62, about a 13% change, should bump the rpms up the same 13%.

For reference my 3.90s cut my 1/4 mile ETs (11.50s at 123.6; 151 in the 1/2 mile) by a little over 0.3 seconds but check out my video on Fluidmotorunions's YouTube section to see how fast it got through the gears-with 8,400 redline shifts I think I was in third gear in a little over four seconds, the other mods notwithstanding. Point being, you will definitely feel how well the car responds to the gears.

Safe racing,
KenL

2008 Space Gray M5

Performance: Infinity Design Equal Length Long Tubular Headers (ceramic coated) | Supersprint 70mm Sec. 1 w/ Dinan 4" Resonators & 70mm Sec. 2 X-Pipe | Dinan: Free Flow Sec. 3 Mufflers, 13% Underdrive Pulley, Throttle Bodies | Evolve Eventuri Intakes | Fast Attack Motorsports AlphaN Tune | 3.91 LSD | RPI SV1 Oil Cooler
Suspension: Bilstein B16 EDC Coilovers | Dinan: FRC, CF F&R Strut Bars, Monoballs | 11" Bimmerworld Adjustable FSB End Links | RDSport RSB
Exterior: Vorsteiner: Molded 2-piece CF Splitters, CF Rear Diffuser, CF Trunk Spoiler | BMW Performance Kidney Grills | iND Painted Gloss Black Side Grills | Painted Bumper Reflectors
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Brakes: StopTech Trophy Kit 380mm Slotted
Wheels (street): 20" HRE P43SC in Gloss Bronze 20x9"et+9, 20x10.5"et+28 w/ Michelin PS4S 255/35/20 & 295/30/20
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Misc: Hardwired V1 | Euro SMG & Custom Coding


Luxury, Class, Speed: Randyís E60 M5
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post #17 of 18 Old 28th September 2016, 06:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by randywei View Post
Glad to see you still visit m5board @KenL !



I had the TMS 3.91 gears swapped into my stock LSD. I also hear a slight whine around 70-80mph, but I've gotten used to it.



Best bang for the buck mod, IMO. They call it the "poor man's supercharger". In the end I paid slightly over $2000 USD for the diff. That's parts and labor (TMS 3.91 R&P, seals, diff fluid).



I've been able to beat a ESS VT2-650 6MT M5 (on stock 3.62) multiple times.


Hey Randy, which shop did the install for you? Did they also source the diff as well? Also, at highway speeds where are the RPMs usually hovering around 70-80mph? I'm debating between the 3.91 and the 4.10 for next years modlist hehe.
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post #18 of 18 Old 28th September 2016, 06:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ctek View Post
Hey Randy, which shop did the install for you? Did they also source the diff as well? Also, at highway speeds where are the RPMs usually hovering around 70-80mph? I'm debating between the 3.91 and the 4.10 for next years modlist hehe.
Performance Technic did the removal and install of the diff, but they sent out my stock diff to a reputable shop that they use for their race cars for the actual R&P swapping. I ordered the 3.91 R&P from TMS myself and then just dropped my car off at PTech.

I think at 70-80mph just around 3k RPM?

As others have mentioned, a 3.91 will put your 6MT gearing at about the same as a stock SMG @ 3.62. A 4.10 will put your 6MT gearing at about a SMG 3.91. If I had a 6MT I'd probably go for the 4.10 so that I know I'm not leaving anything on the table :P

2008 Space Gray M5

Performance: Infinity Design Equal Length Long Tubular Headers (ceramic coated) | Supersprint 70mm Sec. 1 w/ Dinan 4" Resonators & 70mm Sec. 2 X-Pipe | Dinan: Free Flow Sec. 3 Mufflers, 13% Underdrive Pulley, Throttle Bodies | Evolve Eventuri Intakes | Fast Attack Motorsports AlphaN Tune | 3.91 LSD | RPI SV1 Oil Cooler
Suspension: Bilstein B16 EDC Coilovers | Dinan: FRC, CF F&R Strut Bars, Monoballs | 11" Bimmerworld Adjustable FSB End Links | RDSport RSB
Exterior: Vorsteiner: Molded 2-piece CF Splitters, CF Rear Diffuser, CF Trunk Spoiler | BMW Performance Kidney Grills | iND Painted Gloss Black Side Grills | Painted Bumper Reflectors
Interior: EuroBoutique Custom Steering Wheel | iND Alcantara E-Brake Boot | BMW Performance E-Brake Handle | Dinan Aluminum Pedals | BAVSOUND Stage One Speakers & Ghost Subwoofers
Lighting: LUX H8 160 Angel Eye LEDs | WeissLicht Smoked-out Sidemarker & License Plate LEDs | GP Thunder 45 LED Turn Signals | BMW OEM Interior LEDs
Brakes: StopTech Trophy Kit 380mm Slotted
Wheels (street): 20" HRE P43SC in Gloss Bronze 20x9"et+9, 20x10.5"et+28 w/ Michelin PS4S 255/35/20 & 295/30/20
Wheels (track): 18" HRE R40 in Brushed Titanium 18x9"et+17 w/ TMS 12.5mm spacers, 18x10.5"et+28 w/ Toyo R888 245/40/18 & 275/35/18
Misc: Hardwired V1 | Euro SMG & Custom Coding


Luxury, Class, Speed: Randyís E60 M5
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