My new (to me) e60 M5: Tire Tracks on the soul - Page 6 - BMW M5 Forum and M6 Forums
E60 M5 and E61 M5 Touring Discussion 2005- Advertiser's Forum

 41Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
post #51 of 184 Old 22nd September 2016, 08:18 PM
dannyzabolotny
Addicted Member (>300 posts)
 
dannyzabolotny's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Chandler, AZ
Posts: 377
Thanks: 1
Thanked 19 Times in 18 Posts
Garage
Good work on all this stuff, especially considering the lack of documentation with the E60 M5. I guess the E60 M5 never took off as much with DIY'ers due to its greater complexity and major engine issues. I'm guessing that the lack of demand is the reason E60 M5 parts are disappearing from the market? Seems like the E39 M5s are still going strong despite being older.

2000 540i Touring - current DD
2000 M5 - sold
dannyzabolotny is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #52 of 184 Old 22nd September 2016, 10:54 PM Thread Starter
gmak
m5board.comoholic (>1000 posts)
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Canada
Posts: 1,432
Thanks: 74
Thanked 109 Times in 108 Posts
Hey Danny.

Yeah. I think my car is cursed. I love to drive it, but nothing is easy with the car. I just got some curb rash repaired on the Radenergie R10 rear RHS and they destroyed the tire taking it off. I had to wait 2 weeks for a replacement tire from them. I even chipped in (because not new tire right?). I get it home, on the car and notice that it's the Pilot Sport AS/3 whereas I had Pilot Sports (summer tires) everywhere else.

I've called the alloy rim repair place and I'm waiting to hear back - but I'm wondering if there is any harm in having A/S tires on the rear and the summer tires on the front.
gmak is offline  
post #53 of 184 Old 5th October 2016, 11:25 AM Thread Starter
gmak
m5board.comoholic (>1000 posts)
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Canada
Posts: 1,432
Thanks: 74
Thanked 109 Times in 108 Posts
Oil analysis

I changed the oil around 105300 km using LIqui-Moly 10W60 Synthoil Race-Tech GT1. I took a sample at 195773 KM after the bypass oil filter had been in for a bit. The specs are located here.

Some key items, below. I liked the higher flash point and the viscosity numbers. However, the viscosity seems to drop rapidly in our cars - apparently due to fuel dilution.

My new (to me) e60 M5: Tire Tracks on the soul-1390-synthoilracetechgt110w-60-16.0-en.jpg


Here is the report which hi-lights that fuel dilution has reduced the viscosity (IMHO) quite a bit over several hundred kms.
I'm a novice to this sort of thing, and I'm wondering what leads to fuel dilution - i.e. is it a mechanical issue that can be resolved? Also, there is the titanium level which I have no clue as to what that really means, nor if it is a bad thing.

My new (to me) e60 M5: Tire Tracks on the soul-e60-m5-oil-20161004-105778.jpg
Attached Files
File Type: pdf 1390-SynthoilRaceTechGT110W-60-16.0-en.pdf (155.0 KB, 59 views)

Last edited by gmak; 5th October 2016 at 11:27 AM.
gmak is offline  
 
post #54 of 184 Old 5th October 2016, 11:56 AM
ticat928
Member, P500 Sport, DSC off (>900)
 
ticat928's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Midwest
Posts: 983
Thanks: 76
Thanked 68 Times in 66 Posts
the best results i have seen
many are down to 17 cts fuel dilution is unavoidable in a high rpm motor that runs at low rpms most of the time due to less efficient fuel atomization large port low velocity and swirl
wear metals are super low
titanium is a castrol oil additive that others may use as well
ticat928 is offline  
post #55 of 184 Old 5th October 2016, 12:14 PM Thread Starter
gmak
m5board.comoholic (>1000 posts)
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Canada
Posts: 1,432
Thanks: 74
Thanked 109 Times in 108 Posts
Sounds like I just need to drive it at higher revs and avoid excessive idling - especially at start up. Wouldn't the fuel evaporate or combust at higher oil temperatures and higher RPMs? I mean, if I had just driven it like I stole it - wouldn't there be little or no fuel dilution due to the heat? Or does it take quite a while for that correction to take place, if at all?

I looked up 5W50 (Mobil) specs and the 100C viscosity is 17.1 - so yeah, I'm still good I guess. It's quite a drop from 24 for the oil I used, but still better than the next one down. And 0W40 is a scary 12.9 at 100C. Imagine that with fuel dilution.

Last edited by gmak; 5th October 2016 at 12:20 PM.
gmak is offline  
post #56 of 184 Old 5th October 2016, 09:35 PM
ticat928
Member, P500 Sport, DSC off (>900)
 
ticat928's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Midwest
Posts: 983
Thanks: 76
Thanked 68 Times in 66 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by gmak View Post
Sounds like I just need to drive it at higher revs and avoid excessive idling - especially at start up. Wouldn't the fuel evaporate or combust at higher oil temperatures and higher RPMs? I mean, if I had just driven it like I stole it - wouldn't there be little or no fuel dilution due to the heat? Or does it take quite a while for that correction to take place, if at all?

I looked up 5W50 (Mobil) specs and the 100C viscosity is 17.1 - so yeah, I'm still good I guess. It's quite a drop from 24 for the oil I used, but still better than the next one down. And 0W40 is a scary 12.9 at 100C. Imagine that with fuel dilution.
This car was designed for running V-max all day long without any appreciable temperature rise in water or oil cooling system, no design changes were implemented for US market, typical low duty cycle driving conditions do not create enough heat to ensure fuel water and acid elimination.
Everything I tried in November failed including blocking off rad. I just parked the car for winter.
Data logging showed 190 oil and 148 degree coolant temps 160 with OEM replacement stat, bought a 190 degree stat but will not install it since I will only use m5 on track
Even in summer on shorter trips and changing oil every 1500 miles I get nasty smelling and looking oil.
The only time the car is happy is running on track, best car at 95-degree NCM track day for running cool, 220 degree oil temps max 235 when small bleeder hose popped off (no clamp was installed). and that was only because I had sat idle for 25 minutes with air on max in order to be first in line which gave me 3 uninterrupted laps out of paddock prior to reeling in back makers in intermediate group
C7 Zo6's went home early due to limp mode in as little as 4-laps
The oil I changed after the track day was the best condition I have ever seen with the least particles in pan and filter housing no bad smells it got to a proper temp.
m5 found a calling and home at NCM.
worth every penny i paid for it still.

note only specially tire shops have equipment to dismount 35 or less profile tires without chance of damage.
You were lucky they fessed up, many if not visible will let you ride on the internal side wall damage the wrong equipment caused.
AS3 are very good tires but not as sticky as MPSS
ticat928 is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to ticat928 For This Useful Post:
gmak (7th October 2016)
post #57 of 184 Old 5th October 2016, 11:43 PM Thread Starter
gmak
m5board.comoholic (>1000 posts)
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Canada
Posts: 1,432
Thanks: 74
Thanked 109 Times in 108 Posts
gmak is offline  
post #58 of 184 Old 7th October 2016, 12:58 AM Thread Starter
gmak
m5board.comoholic (>1000 posts)
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Canada
Posts: 1,432
Thanks: 74
Thanked 109 Times in 108 Posts
BIG oil decision

Given how this car bites back all the time, I've agonized over this decision. I've decided to go to Amsoil 0W40 European formula for the cooler weather and winter. I'll be changing the oil this weekend, but not changing the filters since they've only been in place for several hundred km. I'll be adding MoS2 again, because .... WWII fighter planes with no oil due to bullets in the pan, still flying.

Part of the impetus for this was discussions on this board and here on the M3 board.. Apparently there is a lot of engine building / tearing down experience. One poster, Kawasaki, designs or builds Nascar engines. From all this reading everywhere, it seems that the bearing gap is not sufficient, based on industry standards, for the weight of the oil. JColley and B767capt (sorry if I've misspelled it from memory) and others have talked about this as well. I have to believe this experience and expertise but I'm not sure that this is the definitive cause of the bearing wear, although it may be a contributor.

My own intuitive idea, unbacked by any industry experience, is that there is wear from the 10W at startup, especially through small spaces; that overfilling of the oil system with oil changes (and you know this has happened in the past or that second drain plug would never have been added to the sump) leading to cavitation with the small air bubbles trapped in the heavier oil (and not being able to escape like from lighter oils), the driving at less than race track levels, and shorter trips that leads to fuel in the oil (and possible "scrubbing" of metal surfaces from this); all of this can contribute to bearing wear. I think that if the bearing gap were really TOO SMALl for the oil, that ALL E60 M5s would have had early bearing failure, no?

SUMMARY: Here are the assumptions behind my decision.
1. The bearing gap is smaller than it should be for the oil weight which could exacerbate wear from certain events;
2. The car is happiest when ridden like a *****; It needs to get to operating temperature for quite a while;
3. Most E60 M5s are driven at less than this level and this leads to fuel in the oil;
4. Any overfill of oil - which is easy in the E60 M5 - leads to minute air bubbles in the oil which do not clear like in lighter oils and cavitation is a source of wear;
5. Most engine wear occurs at cold start. This would be more so in colder temperatures. 10W is a heavy weight for cold weather.
gmak is offline  
post #59 of 184 Old 7th October 2016, 08:51 PM Thread Starter
gmak
m5board.comoholic (>1000 posts)
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Canada
Posts: 1,432
Thanks: 74
Thanked 109 Times in 108 Posts
The oil change is done. I emptied the bypass filter as best as I could. I emptied the regular filter. I filled both up with 10W40. I then topped up 8 quarts to bring them to liters - including the 450 ml of MoS2. After adding the 8 liters and then running up to operating temperature, the level is at 0.7 liters above min. Sounds good to me.


At the same time, I took out my old bypass oil filter bracket that I had built. I'm building a better one that will keep the bypass filter somewhat higher in order to give more clearance above the oil cooler below.
gmak is offline  
post #60 of 184 Old 10th October 2016, 01:30 AM Thread Starter
gmak
m5board.comoholic (>1000 posts)
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Canada
Posts: 1,432
Thanks: 74
Thanked 109 Times in 108 Posts
Here are some pictures of the new bracket put together with just JB Weld. Later, I put bolts and lock nuts to hold the angle piece onto the flat piece. Then, I painted it with POR-15 and put a piece of 3mm rubber mat where the oil filter top would be bolted to the bracket, and another piece where the flat piece would butt against the aluminum bumper.My new (to me) e60 M5: Tire Tracks on the soul-20161007-bypass-bracket-1.jpg
My new (to me) e60 M5: Tire Tracks on the soul-20161007-bypass-bracket-2.jpg

I also cut some small sections of lined silicone hose and used them to put around the oil lines to and from the bypass oil filter. The picture doesn't show this, but I put zip ties around the silicone hose, once it was around the oil hose and pushed into the plastic 'firewall' opening that the hoses run through. The last picture is a shot of what the filter looks like off of the bracket.

My new (to me) e60 M5: Tire Tracks on the soul-20161007-bypass-oil-1.jpg
My new (to me) e60 M5: Tire Tracks on the soul-20161007-bypass-oil-2.jpg
My new (to me) e60 M5: Tire Tracks on the soul-20161007-oil-bypass-3.jpg
gmak is offline  
Reply

Bookmarks

Tags
diy , e60 m5 , journal , maintenance

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the BMW M5 Forum and M6 Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in











Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Linear Mode Linear Mode
Rate This Thread:



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Preserving the soul of an M5 chuffykow E39 M5 and E52 Z8 Discussion 40 9th April 2014 03:27 AM
From the E60 side of the tracks gbogh3 E39 M5 and E52 Z8 Discussion 2 20th October 2006 05:03 PM
Who tracks their M5 and what race tracks have you driven? Mel A E34 M5 Discussion 5 6th May 2000 09:42 PM

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome