E60 is not V10 - Page 2 - BMW M5 Forum and M6 Forums
E60 M5 and E61 M5 Touring Discussion 2005- Advertiser's Forum

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
post #11 of 22 Old 20th April 2002, 08:11 PM
raymondw
Moderator
 
raymondw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: NL
Age: 47
Posts: 2,940
Thanks: 470
Thanked 693 Times in 400 Posts
A detuned Formula 1 engine seems very unlikely considering:

1: F1 engines are limited to 3.0ltr displacement
2: Usable Rev renge is well above 10000RPM, max 18500RPM. This is not usable on street cars and especially not within the important US market where torque is important.
3: It won't be very reliable, a F1 engine only has to last 450km-500km. Developing an engine that has to last 100k++ miles will be impossible.

A V10 with at least 5.0 liters displacement will certainly one of the possibilities.

1: The new 6.0 litre V12 will provide for an excellent basis. Cut two cylinders and you get 5.0 litres!

2: Compared to a V8, a V10 allows smaller and thus lighter pistons and valves. There are a lot of benefits. The most important is that small cylinders are more efficient.

3: Compared to the V12, a V10 has smaller cranck-and camshafts. With smaller shafts, the magnitude of the torsional and harmonical vibrations are smaller. This allows a higher revving engine. Even compared to the older S38 and current S62 there may be benefits.

4: Last but not least, BMW already has gathered a lot of production experiences with a V10, the F1 engines.

Rgrds,

RAymond

Last edited by raymondw; 20th April 2002 at 08:25 PM.
raymondw is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #12 of 22 Old 20th April 2002, 10:10 PM
ALX
Member, P500 Sport, DSC off (>900)
 
ALX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Boston, MA/Grenoble, FRANCE
Posts: 911
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Whatever it has under the hood, one thing will be certain: it'll be an eye sore...

ALX

-e46 UUC Rasp-X pipe FOR SALE
-e46 Kelleners 83mm exhaust FOR SALE

2004 M3 Convertible- GONE!
2003 X5- GONE!
2000 M5 Good times, good times.
ALX is offline  
post #13 of 22 Old 21st April 2002, 01:46 PM
rebel1
Member, P500 Sport, MDM on (>800)
 
rebel1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: anywhere USA
Posts: 890
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I have it from the highest authority, although I can't say who, That it will be a V 10 in both the ///M5 and ///M6. However I could care less as long as it get's the ponies near 500!
There is no doubt the V 10 will be in both M's
rebel1 is offline  
 
post #14 of 22 Old 21st April 2002, 04:10 PM
Prometheus NY
Member, P400 Sport, DSC On (>550)
 
Prometheus NY's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: New York, U.S.A.
Posts: 557
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Quote:
Originally posted by raymond woertman
A detuned Formula 1 engine seems very unlikely considering:

1: F1 engines are limited to 3.0ltr displacement
2: Usable Rev renge is well above 10000RPM, max 18500RPM. This is not usable on street cars and especially not within the important US market where torque is important.
3: It won't be very reliable, a F1 engine only has to last 450km-500km. Developing an engine that has to last 100k++ miles will be impossible.

A V10 with at least 5.0 liters displacement will certainly one of the possibilities.

1: The new 6.0 litre V12 will provide for an excellent basis. Cut two cylinders and you get 5.0 litres!

2: Compared to a V8, a V10 allows smaller and thus lighter pistons and valves. There are a lot of benefits. The most important is that small cylinders are more efficient.

3: Compared to the V12, a V10 has smaller cranck-and camshafts. With smaller shafts, the magnitude of the torsional and harmonical vibrations are smaller. This allows a higher revving engine. Even compared to the older S38 and current S62 there may be benefits.

4: Last but not least, BMW already has gathered a lot of production experiences with a V10, the F1 engines.

Rgrds,

RAymond
This was a really great, and very informative post. Thank you very very much for that enlightening bit of knowledge and common sense.

w w w . p e g a s u s 1 7 . c o m
w w w . h y p e r c a r c l u b . c o m

Pegasus17 Hypercar Club is a private fractional use car club featuring superlative driving machines from BMW, Mercedes Benz, Ferrari, Lamborghini, Aston Martin, Rolls Royce, Bentley, Porsche and Koenigsegg. Please check out our website at your convenience.
www.pegasus17.com
Request more info at: [email protected]
Prometheus NY is offline  
post #15 of 22 Old 28th April 2002, 01:25 AM
CarlT
Member, P500 Sport, DSC On (>700)
 
CarlT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Norway
Posts: 787
Thanks: 4
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Quote:
Originally posted by raymond woertman
4: Last but not least, BMW already has gathered a lot of production experiences with a V10, the F1 engines.

Rgrds,

RAymond
Great post Raymond, as usual...

I can already see the marketing people having a field day by using a V10 in the new M5.

"Our F1 race winning experience has enabled us design the new BMW M5 V10 Engine. The new M5 has the most powerful engine in its class...." blah blah

Carl

"The E31, The father of all modern BMWs"

93 850CSi
99 728iA
00 DiscoII
CarlT is offline  
post #16 of 22 Old 28th April 2002, 12:36 PM
Hamann7
m5board.comoholic (>1000 posts)
 
Hamann7's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Malibu, CA
Age: 41
Posts: 1,340
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Dammit, why don't they just find a way to use their technology to create a more useable and reliable (i.e. no gold foil needed, etc.) version of the McLaren F1 V12 putting out 627 hp?

If they did, it will surely end all worries about that pesky SL55 or E55, or even the 996 turbo...

Their coolest engine is already in their stable...

Now, if only they could make the car look cool!

BMW M5 - Carbon Black on Black, Luxury interior (SOLD)
Porsche 996 GT2 - Black on Black
Porsche 996 GT3 - Black on Black
Porsche Cayenne S - Dark Sea Blue on Havana
Jaguar E-Type 4.2 - Burgundy on Black
BMW 540i Sport - Gray on Gray
Hamann7 is offline  
post #17 of 22 Old 29th April 2002, 10:04 AM
raymondw
Moderator
 
raymondw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: NL
Age: 47
Posts: 2,940
Thanks: 470
Thanked 693 Times in 400 Posts
Because the S70/1 engine will never meet todays emmision limits of the US and Europe.

Rgrds,

RAymond
raymondw is offline  
post #18 of 22 Old 29th April 2002, 10:09 AM
EBMCS03
M5 Expert (>4000)
 
EBMCS03's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: So Cal
Posts: 5,396
Thanks: 0
Thanked 6 Times in 6 Posts
Quote:
Originally posted by raymond woertman
Because the S70/1 engine will never meet todays emmision limits of the US and Europe.

Rgrds,

RAymond
Really why not? I'm sure if they have the technology to figure out the engine they can figure out the emissions too.

2008 ///M5 SMG | Alpine White | Black Full Merino Leather w/Aluminum Trim | Logic 7 | iPod Adapter | HUD | Heated / Ventilated & Adaptive Comfort Seats | Comfort Access | Rear Side Airbags | Rear Side Sunshades | Folding Rear Seats | 35% Sides 15% Rear Windshield Tint
EBMCS03 is offline  
post #19 of 22 Old 29th April 2002, 01:49 PM
raymondw
Moderator
 
raymondw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: NL
Age: 47
Posts: 2,940
Thanks: 470
Thanked 693 Times in 400 Posts
Because that is one of the primary reasons why production of the 850CSi ceased in 1997 or 1998. The 850CSi has the S70B56 engine with SOHC cylinder heads.

I also read that the X5 LM with the Lemans V12 would never come into production in that form because of the same reason.

Rgrds,

Raymond

Last edited by raymondw; 29th April 2002 at 01:50 PM.
raymondw is offline  
post #20 of 22 Old 1st May 2002, 07:36 AM
barilla
Member, Sport: On DSC: On (>100 posts)
 
barilla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: New York
Posts: 110
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
barilla is offline  
Reply

Bookmarks

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the BMW M5 Forum and M6 Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in











Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Linear Mode Linear Mode
Rate This Thread:



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
E60 M5 V10 engine sound clip and 3 new pics with undisguised wheels Tom_K E60 M5 and E61 M5 Touring Discussion 29 24th January 2004 08:10 AM
Yet another E60 testdrive BmwNut E60 M5 and E61 M5 Touring Discussion 6 13th November 2003 04:20 AM
Potential E60 M5 V10 characteristics MT JTN E60 M5 and E61 M5 Touring Discussion 31 17th May 2003 01:42 PM
News on the M6 and the V10!! enots E63 BMW M6 Forum and BMW M6 Convertible | m6board.com 5 22nd May 2002 02:28 PM

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome