AUTOBAHN BMW Fort Worth ragged my car and wrecked/totaled it on a test drive! [case now closed - after 16 months...] - Page 68 - BMW M5 Forum and M6 Forums
E60 M5 and E61 M5 Touring Discussion 2005- Advertiser's Forum

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post #671 of 1905 Old 12th September 2010, 09:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JT///M5 View Post
I want to play devil's advocate for a moment.

If there was an accident, whether it was your fault or the other person's fault, wouldn't most reasonable people file an insurance claim? Especially if the damage was a large sum? I think if we took all the emotion out of this situation with the OP and dealer, would anyone not do the same? Isn't that what insurance is for? That's why all of us buy car insurance, life insurance, health insurance, homeowners insurance, etc, etc, right? So when something catastrophic happens we are covered. Right?

So I think that's where this whole deal is at. They're hashing out the payout (totaling the car) or the buyback amount I bet. If we are to be reasonable here, we should guess that is why there has not been any further updates. The dealer's insurance, with the insistence of both the policy holder and the claimant, is trying to negotiate a fair and equitable resolution. Normally the insurance doesn't want to pay more than it has to and in this case, the policy holder (dealer) can use its buying power to push the insurance to give a little more to the claimant (our OP) so else the dealer can take his future business to another insurance company. I can only imagine that they carry a few million dollars of liability being a large business with many employees. So buying the OP's car out at 50-70k should not be a problem.

So lets all just keep a level head and let this one play out. There won't be any open public apologies or big event announcing the OP has received a 2010 M5 to replace his wrecked car. I think the OP will get what he wants but the dealer will have him sign a non-disclosure agreement so we're not gonna hear much about this anymore. It will eventually be swept under the rug and business will go back to usual. Business will probably suffer at the crash dealer for a while but they'll move on and so will everyone on here.
while I tend to agree with the majority of what you said....
if the everything the OP has said is factual....the dealer in question tried to hide the extent of the damage....that has become more of a sticking point than the actual accident....while the unauthorized "test" ride was unacceptable....the conduct that followed was actually more repulsive.

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post #672 of 1905 Old 12th September 2010, 11:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JT///M5 View Post
I want to play devil's advocate for a moment.

If there was an accident, whether it was your fault or the other person's fault, wouldn't most reasonable people file an insurance claim? .

Absolutely not.

(I guess it depends on your definition of "reasonable".)

But if YOU damage MY car, you can be damned sure that I will not be filing a claim on MY insurance! I will file a claim against YOU. not your insurance, not my insurance, YOU. You can pay it or submit it to your insurance. I have no obligation to deal with any insurance company. (Other than to say "you owe me this much.")

For some reason people seem to allow insurance companies to be a surrogate for the legal system wherein liability is assigned...so we "file insurance claims" and allow the insurers "policies" to determine the extent of liability... At the end of the day, it is cheaper to settle with insurance, but you don't need to start there...

Oh, there is another BIG reason to not just "file with your insurance": "your" insurance will not pay diminished value- so that's a non-starter.



There is another issue at play here:

There is a potential claim that this wasn't just an "Accident" but that the dealer, by virtue of poor 'key control' policies, or lack of compliance to 'test drive policies' was WILLFULLY NEGLIGENT in this situation. Perhaps there were other claims like this? Hmmm? This could be a ripe situation for an attorney to explore...perhaps, I dont know... but if I was the dealer and there was any history of this, I'd want this issue settled and done before the OP stumbled upon an attorney with some free time to invest in an exploration.

This latter point is something the dealer and their insurer should consider in deciding on a "fair and equitable" resolution. (That phrase being "screw you" in 'business speak')

"Keep things as simple as possible...But no simpler"

Last edited by ard; 12th September 2010 at 11:23 PM.
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post #673 of 1905 Old 13th September 2010, 01:07 AM
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Originally Posted by ard View Post
Absolutely not.

(I guess it depends on your definition of "reasonable".)

But if YOU damage MY car, you can be damned sure that I will not be filing a claim on MY insurance! I will file a claim against YOU. not your insurance, not my insurance, YOU. You can pay it or submit it to your insurance. I have no obligation to deal with any insurance company. (Other than to say "you owe me this much.")

For some reason people seem to allow insurance companies to be a surrogate for the legal system wherein liability is assigned...so we "file insurance claims" and allow the insurers "policies" to determine the extent of liability... At the end of the day, it is cheaper to settle with insurance, but you don't need to start there...

Oh, there is another BIG reason to not just "file with your insurance": "your" insurance will not pay diminished value- so that's a non-starter.



There is another issue at play here:

There is a potential claim that this wasn't just an "Accident" but that the dealer, by virtue of poor 'key control' policies, or lack of compliance to 'test drive policies' was WILLFULLY NEGLIGENT in this situation. Perhaps there were other claims like this? Hmmm? This could be a ripe situation for an attorney to explore...perhaps, I dont know... but if I was the dealer and there was any history of this, I'd want this issue settled and done before the OP stumbled upon an attorney with some free time to invest in an exploration.

This latter point is something the dealer and their insurer should consider in deciding on a "fair and equitable" resolution. (That phrase being "screw you" in 'business speak')
Absolutely damn straight. You are correct. The OP should not take the fall here. You do not carry insurance for a wrong that someone else does to you. Especially when you were not even involved. I have insurance for what I may do. I know there is "no fault" in play in most states but hell no will I be responsible for someone else's screw up when I was not involved.
JT///M5 sorry but your devils advocate is FOS!!!
This has been so far a classic example of the "big guy crapping on the little guy".
The dealer tried to deceive to cover their butts. It's sad JT///M5 that you can not see this.

The OP maybe working it out but I tell you this. The accounts as they've been stated, I would own that dealership in the end if I was involved. One needs some savage barracudas at times like this, and I have them. I have guys that bled with me in S.E. Asia who are lawyers.

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post #674 of 1905 Old 13th September 2010, 01:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JT///M5 View Post
I want to play devil's advocate for a moment.

If there was an accident, whether it was your fault or the other person's fault, wouldn't most reasonable people file an insurance claim? .
Reasonable people maybe, but is there anything reasonable about owning and m5? I can only speak for myself, but if i want a reasonable car ill buy a Nissan or somesuch....
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post #675 of 1905 Old 13th September 2010, 01:59 AM
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Regardless of whose insurance is working on paying for this (dealership's insurance obviously) there is no way going to be an equitable resolution unless the dealership does something in addition to the insurance payout. Because the insuance adjusters are looking at all the ads for used M5's right now, saying "well it looks like your car is worth around $40,000 at most" and if it is totalled the OP will get a very small check compared to how he values his car. And then if he wants it fixed, he'll have to buy the car back and it'll end up costing him more money in the end than what the insurance gave him. If he wants to take the check to buy another car, the one he can buy with that check will not be as nice as the one that was totalled. Unless the dealership finds a nice used one and cuts him a deal on it.

I've been through this with insurance before with a rare car, they will give you the lowest market value they can scrape up, they will call sellers and give them lowball offers on cars they have never seen the condition of, and if a seller accepts, they won't buy the car but will use that as a market value for your pristine example that was totalled. God don't even get me started on insurance adjusters.

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post #676 of 1905 Old 13th September 2010, 02:39 AM
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Not quite true, it depends if you are the claimant or the insured. When submitting a claim with someone elses insurance company they are more motivated to settle with you fairly since they are trying to make you happy and go away. In a case of a total loss you will likely end up with high retail value not wholesale. Once the responsible party takes on responsibility for your loss they are admitting fault and will try to make you whole. In turn if it is your own company paying you are bound by what is in your policy for example aftermarket part usage etc.
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post #677 of 1905 Old 13th September 2010, 05:07 AM
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Quote:
Not quite true, it depends if you are the claimant or the insured
Well my experiences have been the opposite as what you claim. As the claimant I have had the other company's adjuster doing everything they can to screw down the price. They were not interested in making me happy, they were interested in paying the least amount possible as I was a cost to them and not a source in income.

When my own insurance company was the one paying me, they did everything to make it as painless and fair as possible because they wanted to keep my business.

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post #678 of 1905 Old 13th September 2010, 04:19 PM
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It does depend on the company you are dealing with, there are exeptions since there are many companies. I do deal with insurance claims professionally and my comments are in reference to the norm.
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post #679 of 1905 Old 13th September 2010, 05:20 PM
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Originally Posted by M5Ranger View Post
Absolutely damn straight. You are correct. The OP should not take the fall here. You do not carry insurance for a wrong that someone else does to you. Especially when you were not even involved. I have insurance for what I may do. I know there is "no fault" in play in most states but hell no will I be responsible for someone else's screw up when I was not involved.
JT///M5 sorry but your devils advocate is FOS!!!
This has been so far a classic example of the "big guy crapping on the little guy".
The dealer tried to deceive to cover their butts. It's sad JT///M5 that you can not see this.

The OP maybe working it out but I tell you this. The accounts as they've been stated, I would own that dealership in the end if I was involved. One needs some savage barracudas at times like this, and I have them. I have guys that bled with me in S.E. Asia who are lawyers.

Ranger
Either you and Ard failed to read my whole post or failed to comprehend what I'm saying. But at no time did I ever say the op should have to claim his insurance. I thought I made it clear that the crash dealers insurance would be the one paying. Maybe you guys shouldn't be so fast to grab your pitchforks and join the mob. That's actually one of the issues I'm observing on this post that I don't agree with completely. That was why I was trying help reason what may be going on with no recent updates from the op.
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post #680 of 1905 Old 13th September 2010, 05:30 PM
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Not all BMW dealerships are dark and evil. My local BMW dealership never did any test drive nor joyride on my M5 when it's in their shop. I record the mileage with them, and it never goes beyond 0.2 miles. They also told me that they need to drive approximately 4 miles for the oil indicator to reset after an oil change. I told them I know exactly the process, can do it myself, and they're always okay with it. The dealership I bought my M5 from, is about 100 miles away, and they have several 50 inch TVs with over a dozen cameras covering their shop. You can see exactly where your car is, who is working on it, and if you get really close you can even see what they're working on. They encourage you to stay there while your car is in service, and they offer free soda, coffee ,and other drinks. They told me that they just won the top-tier BMW dealership award (or whatever it's called), and I believe it.

There are many horrible dealerships out there, but there are also good ones among them.
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