Do I need to install water/meth system? - Page 2 - BMW M5 Forum and M6 Forums
E39 M5 and E52 Z8 Discussion 1998-2003 Advertiser's Forum

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post #11 of 22 Old 13th May 2019, 06:04 AM Thread Starter
DonutFlame
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Do you have to get a new tune whenever swapping pulleys? So if I decided to change in the future I’d have to get another tune?
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post #12 of 22 Old 13th May 2019, 05:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DonutFlame View Post
Do you have to get a new tune whenever swapping pulleys? So if I decided to change in the future I’d have to get another tune?
No...assuming the pulleys are not ridiculously different. You are simply adjusting the amount of "boost" by changing pulley size. As Jerry mentioned, to get MAXIMUM benefit from the change, you really do need a tune. The DME will adapt to some extent however without a custom tune each time. It is a little easier on newer models to change maps on the fly...not so much on the E39.

Cheers

2003 Sterling Grey M5 SOLD
ESS kit #1 with RK AUTOWERKS Upgrade! (RK/EVO software, Injectors, Fuel Pump)
Dinan Free Flow Exhaust, Dinan Rear Sway Bar
Super Sprint Headers
Rogue Octane SSK and WSR
CNS Racing clutch and flywheel
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AngeliBright V3 6000k LED Upgrade, HID Fogs
Ultimate Pedals
BSW Stage 1 speaker upgrade/BSW Subwoofer
Rear Wheels Up Front (275s all around)
Aquamist HFS3/Howerton Engineering Tank (pre/post SC nozzles)
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post #13 of 22 Old 13th May 2019, 07:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blockdoc View Post
No...assuming the pulleys are not ridiculously different. You are simply adjusting the amount of "boost" by changing pulley size. As Jerry mentioned, to get MAXIMUM benefit from the change, you really do need a tune. The DME will adapt to some extent however without a custom tune each time. It is a little easier on newer models to change maps on the fly...not so much on the E39.

Cheers
I agree.

I think if you work with your tuner that you might be upping the boost a couple more psi, he can probably compensate. The issue is fuel, but as I understand it, the needs are not linear, but geometric. So you need to make sure you have the capability (injector size and possibly fuel pump) to handle even higher fuel demands.

And of course, higher boost leads to even more heat...… And the saga continues!

Regards,
Jerry

'01 Black/caramel
Dinan Stage 3 suspension, SS jet coated headers, ESS SC kit w/ 1 range colder NGK's, 92mm pulley, 440 Big Greens, TTFS alpha N tune for meth, RK plenum plates, SBC Endurance Stage 3 Kevlar performance clutch setup, "Jed" lightened DMFW, open brake ducts, TEC cupholder, U.S.(Euro style) tilt/slide armrest, 6k HID fogs, Umnitza bi-xenon flamethrowers w/6k super white low beams, rear fogs, V1/Stealth1, dual head LI, 2.65 diff w/40% lockup/2x dynamic, compact spare, Euro trailer hitch, Mocal oil cooler, ACS type rear spoiler, Rogue custom SSK and tranny mounts, ST 355 BBK (fronts), BP sway bar brackets, Bluetooth retrofit, Speedhut boost gauge (20 psi), Dinan TB's and VS, KB BAP, Howerton/HFS-3 Aquamist WI trunk setup (50/50), with 2nd gauge in rear view mirror, aftermarket trunk mounted sound system integrated into stock unit (amps and crossovers and sub and speakers).......
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post #14 of 22 Old 14th May 2019, 04:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blockdoc View Post
This was my experience exactly. I added meth as there were really no viable intercoolers available during my build. The heatsoak on these E39s is significant in STOCK form (saw many pictures of guys at the track with ice bags on the plenums between runs). Even worse with addition of a blower. I would add meth again in a second (already put a kit on my M4 build)

Happy to help in anyway I can

Brian
Thanks a lot for your help Brian.

Can you share what meth system you're using? What was the approximate cost?
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post #15 of 22 Old 14th May 2019, 05:06 AM
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Wow... so many opinions but only few know what they are talking about.

Meth injection will always be beneficial. Whether it’s practical all depends on where you live.

If you live in a warm climate area meth is not only beneficial but also practical.

If you live in area where it’s primarily cooler temps then how beneficial is the system really?

Meth provides two benefits, it slightly increases your octane level and reduces intake temps this is assuming it’s wired to work on injector pulse and when the system is on. It’s not like a fuel system where it constantly sprays meth into the engine.

Depending if you wanna run aquamist which is what I have and I believe Jerry as well, it has a fail safe built in. There is more info on this board that will help you calculate jet size depending on the size of the injectors. I use to run 100% meth, but found 80/20 is better. A little of distilled water helps with charged air.

AEM has a kit as well, but I am not familiar with set up and wiring.

Now tuning for meth vs. not tuning and turning it on when you want to. The car will choke if it’s not tuned for meth and you decide to turn it on. You will run rich.

Tuning - this is very sensitive subject for me because I went through hell with my remote tuner. Safe yourself a lot of headache and drive to whoever is going to tune your car.

Moreover, you should know what you are getting into when SC the e39. Cooling and fuel in general will need to be addressed. You can have 1000hp, but what does it matter if it only lasts few seconds. As mentioned earlier the e39 m5 already has heat soke issues. Throwing a SC opens up a can of worms. Oil cooling, water cooling, ditching the heat exchanger, boost leaks aka vacuum lines high flow fuel pump, clutch, flywheel will need to be addressed.

You may want to look at suspension as well, like brakes and rear diff reinforcement. Gauges to monitor all the items you just added and the list keeps going and going. These are some of the things you won’t see in the fine print when buying a SC.

Lastly, don’t forget about smog and state inspection. This varies from state to state.


This is not discouragement, more like heads up to a fellow board member.


Feel free to pm and we can talk in detail.

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Last edited by Silent; 14th May 2019 at 05:11 AM.
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post #16 of 22 Old 14th May 2019, 05:19 AM
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You also need to figure out what you are going to do with the car. If it's going to be a daily driver, or a used for long drives - meth may not be ideal.

With these cars there is no easy way to run multiple tunes. So, once you're tuned for meth you're going to be running it all the time (I believe?). I have this setup in my E46, and although awesome, it's hard to take it anywhere for long trips without bringing a lot of pre-mix with you as well. Or pure methanol in the trunk which might not be the best idea. You can go full standalone and then load up some pre-made tunes for all conditions but that's serious money.

If you just want to have fun with the car and not worry about where you're going to drive it, get the less aggressive pulley and a nice air-air intercooler and enjoy it. Won't work on a track - but if you're going to do that you'd go a different route?
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post #17 of 22 Old 14th May 2019, 05:24 AM
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Where is @shady , he has less of a filter than me.

Previous post underlines how I started my comment.

02 Blue Water Metallic Sport, S/C and much much more.....
05 Alpine White/Black E46 M3
15 Alpine White/Sakhir Orange F10 M5 Comp Pkg, pursuing 1k

Sold
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08 Alpine White/Black E60 M5
11 Alpine White/Black F10 550i M
09 Alpine White/Black E60 550i M
08 Alpine White/Black E60 550i M
06 LeMans Blue/Black X5 4.8is
03 Imola Red/Black X5 4.8is
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post #18 of 22 Old 14th May 2019, 06:50 PM
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To be clear, my "meth tune" works perfectly fine when I am not running meth.

However, when I do run meth, it compensates for it such that it takes advantage of the extra cooling and octane.

But I can run just fine all day long without turning on the Aquamist meth system. And I learned to fill it only 1/2 way because on the street, the meth/water lasts a long time.

Regards,
Jerry

'01 Black/caramel
Dinan Stage 3 suspension, SS jet coated headers, ESS SC kit w/ 1 range colder NGK's, 92mm pulley, 440 Big Greens, TTFS alpha N tune for meth, RK plenum plates, SBC Endurance Stage 3 Kevlar performance clutch setup, "Jed" lightened DMFW, open brake ducts, TEC cupholder, U.S.(Euro style) tilt/slide armrest, 6k HID fogs, Umnitza bi-xenon flamethrowers w/6k super white low beams, rear fogs, V1/Stealth1, dual head LI, 2.65 diff w/40% lockup/2x dynamic, compact spare, Euro trailer hitch, Mocal oil cooler, ACS type rear spoiler, Rogue custom SSK and tranny mounts, ST 355 BBK (fronts), BP sway bar brackets, Bluetooth retrofit, Speedhut boost gauge (20 psi), Dinan TB's and VS, KB BAP, Howerton/HFS-3 Aquamist WI trunk setup (50/50), with 2nd gauge in rear view mirror, aftermarket trunk mounted sound system integrated into stock unit (amps and crossovers and sub and speakers).......
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post #19 of 22 Old 14th May 2019, 07:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gsfent View Post
To be clear, my "meth tune" works perfectly fine when I am not running meth.

However, when I do run meth, it compensates for it such that it takes advantage of the extra cooling and octane.

But I can run just fine all day long without turning on the Aquamist meth system. And I learned to fill it only 1/2 way because on the street, the meth/water lasts a long time.

Regards,
Jerry
Exactly as Jerry said. We had similar setups. I also ran the Aquamist HFS3 system which is triggered off of the injector duty cycle.

I never had my beast “tuned for meth”, but rather used a 50/50 water meth mix primarily for cooking and a little extra headroom. Since I never tuned my beast for maximum power, I can’t say for sure that I wasn’t running slightly rich. Given the choice, however, for a daily driver I’d much rather err on the side of rich than too lean.

I also had no issues when I simply turned it off

2003 Sterling Grey M5 SOLD
ESS kit #1 with RK AUTOWERKS Upgrade! (RK/EVO software, Injectors, Fuel Pump)
Dinan Free Flow Exhaust, Dinan Rear Sway Bar
Super Sprint Headers
Rogue Octane SSK and WSR
CNS Racing clutch and flywheel
DICE Ipod connectivity
Bimmian Black Kidney Grilles
AngeliBright V3 6000k LED Upgrade, HID Fogs
Ultimate Pedals
BSW Stage 1 speaker upgrade/BSW Subwoofer
Rear Wheels Up Front (275s all around)
Aquamist HFS3/Howerton Engineering Tank (pre/post SC nozzles)
RK Autowerks CNC Plenum Plates

2015 M4 Coupe DCT (BootMod flash Custom Paul Johnson Tune, downpipes, Methanol 100 percent , E30 map, Pure Turbos 700WHP+, 295/275 tires with Vorsteiner wheels)
2018 Jeep Hellcat Trackhawk (707HP Supercharged)

Last edited by Blockdoc; 14th May 2019 at 07:23 PM.
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post #20 of 22 Old 15th May 2019, 04:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blockdoc View Post
Exactly as Jerry said. We had similar setups. I also ran the Aquamist HFS3 system which is triggered off of the injector duty cycle.

I never had my beast “tuned for meth”, but rather used a 50/50 water meth mix primarily for cooking and a little extra headroom. Since I never tuned my beast for maximum power, I can’t say for sure that I wasn’t running slightly rich. Given the choice, however, for a daily driver I’d much rather err on the side of rich than too lean.

I also had no issues when I simply turned it off
Having said what you said, how would you know then if someone would need meth injection if you never fully optimized it?

02 Blue Water Metallic Sport, S/C and much much more.....
05 Alpine White/Black E46 M3
15 Alpine White/Sakhir Orange F10 M5 Comp Pkg, pursuing 1k

Sold
08 Black/Black X5 4.8i
08 Alpine White/Black E60 M5
11 Alpine White/Black F10 550i M
09 Alpine White/Black E60 550i M
08 Alpine White/Black E60 550i M
06 LeMans Blue/Black X5 4.8is
03 Imola Red/Black X5 4.8is
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