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E39 M5 and E52 Z8 Discussion 1998-2003 Advertiser's Forum

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post #121 of 147 Old 10th February 2019, 03:50 AM
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Originally Posted by herrubermensch View Post
Last word on the matter: Rao is not a troll and never, in any post, used pejorative language with the intent to degrade--e.g., calling someone a "boy" in the pejorative sense--when disagreeing with someone. Yes, I agree, Rao's sarcasm could run away with him, and he was called out for it and warned many times. But you are correct that because we know that Rao was always trying to have fun and never intending to hurt, and provided tremendous constructive knowledge, assistance, and yes, criticism, I give him a pass. I can't speak for others. It's a pretty screwed up world if we are somehow prohibited from distinguishing between internet trolls and Rao when moderating the board. BTW, note that I am using the past tense because Rao doesn't post here anymore. THAT was a real loss for this board. Kpeng's banning--not so much.

--Peter
Wow, just listen to yourself.

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post #122 of 147 Old 10th February 2019, 08:01 AM
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This is ridiculous this is still being discussed. Clearly the troll wins. Yes I know what trolls are and exactly how they work. They are very very rare here, this may be the first real case although others have been called such, they likely were not. I participate on other forums, not cars where they come in waves. You can't compare Rao and Kpeng. You might not like Rao's sense of humor but he was certainly a very helpful forum member. This was Kpeng's first post!
So does Rao's choice of humor wipe out his helpfulness? Maybe. I still don't see that Kpeng was helpful, so he is in the negative.


The title was an intent to harm, although edited now, it was not accurate as you say you have Slim products and they are not junk. You want to fight with Peter you can do it in PM. There is no need for this.


The reason that this forum has slowed is certainly not from Rao's posts, In fact when guys like him and others stopped posting we saw the beginning of the decline in posts. It is because of a change in the owners of these cars. Quite frankly the M5 was a gentleman's car when first produced and remained so for many years. Gentlemen cars attract gentlemen.

This is way to general I don't mean anything by it. Go back 5 -7 years and look at the bottom of helpful posts there will be lots of thanks given by more than even the OP. Now if you look at some more recent posts where people have specific problems and were helped there maybe thanks but it will not be from the OP and after their problem was solved they disappear. This is why people stop posting including the helpful people. No brotherhood.

Last edited by Sailor24; 10th February 2019 at 06:35 PM.
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post #123 of 147 Old 10th February 2019, 02:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by herrubermensch View Post
Last word on the matter: Rao is not a troll and never, in any post, used pejorative language with the intent to degrade--e.g., calling someone a "boy" in the pejorative sense--when disagreeing with someone. Yes, I agree, Rao's sarcasm could run away with him, and he was called out for it and warned many times. But you are correct that because we know that Rao was always trying to have fun and never intending to hurt, and provided tremendous constructive knowledge, assistance, and yes, criticism, I give him a pass. I can't speak for others. It's a pretty screwed up world if we are somehow prohibited from distinguishing between internet trolls and Rao when moderating the board. BTW, note that I am using the past tense because Rao doesn't post here anymore. THAT was a real loss for this board. Kpeng's banning--not so much.

--Peter
I never called Rao a troll. I'm commenting on the quantity of the offense, not the quality. If he was actually warned then actually that restores a bit of my faith in the board. But too little too late. The fact he doesn't post anymore is absolutely irrelevant to the current argument.

"I give him a pass". Again, I'm glad YOU are the arbiter of good taste and civility on the board. I don't even think you and guys like Sailor can see the "this-is-our-board-the-rest-of-you-are-just-visiting" tone of many of your posts.

So because Rao occasionally provided useful information we can excuse awful behavior. OK. (again I'm not arguing his knowledge, I'm sure he's forgotten more than I'll ever know about cars)

We can all distinguish between trolls and Rao, what's that got to do with anything? I'm commenting on YOUR double standard here.

Peter, listen, I honestly believe you are probably a gentleman and a scholar. But you are wrong on this one. A year from now I think you will look back on this thread and regret your actions. But right now, you are so entrenched in your position that I doubt you can even seen the logic of my argument. "A man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still." That kind of thing.

Lastly, food for thought. I know you are a vendor. You are a nice guy providing a valuable service so I'm sure you will do just dandy. But I would advise you in the future that before you hand down judgment from on high that you consider the perception of your actions. Because of your behavior in this matter, you've lost any future business you might have had from me. I suspect others feel the same.

This is my last post as well.

Last edited by [email protected]; 10th February 2019 at 02:18 PM.
 
post #124 of 147 Old 10th February 2019, 04:12 PM
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Great thread guys
So full of opinion and emotion. Carry on

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post #125 of 147 Old 11th February 2019, 06:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
I don't even think you and guys like Sailor can see the "this-is-our-board-the-rest-of-you-are-just-visiting" tone of many of your posts.
Tone does not come across in "type", that is the problem with forums in general. I think you are doing that yourself or confusing familiarity with ownership of a board. You become familiar after some odd thousands of posts. There will always be leaders.


You are imagining things, there is no old boys club here. There was a chance of that happening with the original owner, but now this board is owned by a company that has tons of boards and their main goal is to throw ads up. Even back when; there was no old boys club, it was a little more (not sure I have ever used this word and am sure I don't know how to spell it, you will figure it out) cliquish, but no special rules. This is such a small part of their operation no special privileges would ever be granted.
If you want to give Kpeng the freedom to post his dismay anyway he wants, then Peter gets the same right to ask for a ban of whoever he chooses under those same rules. After all his request for a ban would go to the same place the 100s of similar requests for Paul's ban, nowhere.

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post #126 of 147 Old 11th February 2019, 09:14 AM
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Originally Posted by TexaZ3 View Post
This forum has lost all my respect. Terrible way to handle this whole situation, lead by moderators and fueled by long-time members.

There isnt a cabal of moderators behind the scenes, taking cues from "long-time members," ensuring someone with a complaint against an item produced by a non-sponsor/non-user (never heard of slimwhatever) is silenced and banned. It is typically just a single moderator doing what they think is best in a given situation. M5board almost always moderates itself so this is a rare issue.

It is inevitable that a population of members will not agree with the manner in which content is moderated. Not much can be done about that.
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post #127 of 147 Old 11th February 2019, 06:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
I never called Rao a troll. I'm commenting on the quantity of the offense, not the quality. If he was actually warned then actually that restores a bit of my faith in the board. But too little too late. The fact he doesn't post anymore is absolutely irrelevant to the current argument.

"I give him a pass". Again, I'm glad YOU are the arbiter of good taste and civility on the board. I don't even think you and guys like Sailor can see the "this-is-our-board-the-rest-of-you-are-just-visiting" tone of many of your posts.

So because Rao occasionally provided useful information we can excuse awful behavior. OK. (again I'm not arguing his knowledge, I'm sure he's forgotten more than I'll ever know about cars)

We can all distinguish between trolls and Rao, what's that got to do with anything? I'm commenting on YOUR double standard here.

Peter, listen, I honestly believe you are probably a gentleman and a scholar. But you are wrong on this one. A year from now I think you will look back on this thread and regret your actions. But right now, you are so entrenched in your position that I doubt you can even seen the logic of my argument. "A man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still." That kind of thing.

Lastly, food for thought. I know you are a vendor. You are a nice guy providing a valuable service so I'm sure you will do just dandy. But I would advise you in the future that before you hand down judgment from on high that you consider the perception of your actions. Because of your behavior in this matter, you've lost any future business you might have had from me. I suspect others feel the same.

This is my last post as well.
So much this ^^

Quote:
Originally Posted by TurboHugh View Post
Great thread guys
So full of opinion and emotion. Carry on

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Very meaningful addition to the conversation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by de Witt View Post
There isnt a cabal of moderators behind the scenes, taking cues from "long-time members," ensuring someone with a complaint against an item produced by a non-sponsor/non-user (never heard of slimwhatever) is silenced and banned. It is typically just a single moderator doing what they think is best in a given situation. M5board almost always moderates itself so this is a rare issue.

It is inevitable that a population of members will not agree with the manner in which content is moderated. Not much can be done about that.
Somebody had to ban the guy. And some old-time members are forum sponsors lobbied for it and got what they wanted. All I said it was a terrible way to deal with the situation. Whether you/me/others agree or not with this is moot point. Whats done is done.

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post #128 of 147 Old 11th February 2019, 07:59 PM
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Somebody had to ban the guy.
Wait, so you agree with with banning OP? Or you mean there was, in-fact, a moderator that banned OP? Probably the latter. Nonetheless, there was no coterie of old timers and moderators, it was probably just one mod that saw OP was being a nuisance. It doesnt matter that OP has a pedigree on other boards (one which was shown to be a nuisance), OP posted on a website that encourages people to respond . . . kind of the point of a forum. When OP got responses that did not suit him, he escalated the personal attacks and thats where he sort of loses the argument of free speech/etc. Even when the supplier had authorized a return - OPs words - he continued on the offensive. And of course other members are going to respond and goad, you expect people to just sit there and not interact?

Like it or not, there is a hierarchy here (everywhere, its hard-wired into non-vertebrates) and a new poster with a few posts is viewed as less credible than more copious posters or those with old join dates; if you dont do it overtly, you do it subliminally.

BTW free speech as protected in the US Constitution refers to government restrictions on speech - which the govt can, in-fact, restrict in certain cases - and not restrictions placed on speech by individuals/non govt-persons . . . the latter is free to regulate speech with a few narrow circumstances. None of which exist here.
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post #129 of 147 Old 11th February 2019, 08:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TexaZ3 View Post
So much this ^^







Very meaningful addition to the conversation.







Somebody had to ban the guy. And some old-time members are forum sponsors lobbied for it and got what they wanted. All I said it was a terrible way to deal with the situation. Whether you/me/others agree or not with this is moot point. Whats done is done.


Yes i agree i was important and got quoted by your important contribution


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post #130 of 147 Old 12th February 2019, 01:46 AM
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Originally Posted by de Witt View Post

BTW free speech as protected in the US Constitution refers to government restrictions on speech - which the govt can, in-fact, restrict in certain cases - and not restrictions placed on speech by individuals/non govt-persons . . . the latter is free to regulate speech with a few narrow circumstances. None of which exist here.
It is funny you should mention that. I, not being an American, thought I needed to learn more on that topic. That is what I found free speech is for the gov't or rather the citizen to gov't. There is no application to any forum unless it was a gov't forum and it certainly does not apply individual to individual, that speech all seems to be bound by slander laws, that sounds so expensive.
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