My Brake Pedal Feel is Kicking My Butt... - Page 20 - BMW M5 Forum and M6 Forums
E39 M5 and E52 Z8 Discussion 1998-2003 Advertiser's Forum

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post #191 of 208 Old 11th July 2019, 05:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Sailor24 View Post
Dude this thread has gone on way to long. If you have not figured it out by now, you are not going to. Suck it up and take the beast to some one that can help you. At least then you will have a car to drive which is more important than owing one.
"Dude?!"

First, What difference does it make to you, how long this thread is?


Second, How do you know what is important to us?


Third, There have been many posts to this thread that cover background information; Many regarding DIS 57 for example. This has greatly increased its length. Unlike your post, these provide insight that just may be the key to its solution.


Fourth, This is a thread for those of up who do our OWN work. My experience with professional mechanics is that MOST of them are hacks whose primary goal is to maximize their take. They typically replace good parts and then pronounce, "Even though the $1000.00 I charged you to replace that part made no difference; it was probably bad anyway." I can and have been doing that. There are examples on this thread of just this type of "professional" "repair."


I would bet that, if we followed your "advice," the very first thing these "professionals" would say is that the brand new master cylinders we replaced at the beginning of this saga are bad. If you had bothered to read this thread in its entirety, you would see I have checked the operation of the brand new OEM TRW M/C, and verified it good. I also had a "professional mechanic" instruct me to replace the vacuum booster... it made NO difference! At least this "pro" didn't rip me off for the inflated cost of his labor! Or... by adding by a 200% markup on the OEM part I installed.


Fifth, There is SOMETHING malfunctioning with our brake systems. Your assertion that "If you have not figured it out by now, you are not going to;" says more about you than it does about us. We CAN and WILL figure this out. Unlike you; I, at least, don't quit just because a problem turns out to be a bit more difficult than I anticipated.


Sorry... "Dude..." I have NO INTENTION of taking this car in to a "professional mechanic" who doesn't know any more than I do about what is wrong.

My opinion at this point, is that BMW put a poorly designed ABS unit in these vehicles and I WILL eliminate EVERY SINGLE POSSIBILITY before I reward them by giving them an additional $1500.00 for the subbed unit that corrects the problem!

Your OPINION couldn't matter LESS to me! If you have nothing constructive to offer, don't waste our time by posting!
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post #192 of 208 Old 11th July 2019, 09:22 PM Thread Starter
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Sailor24, your comment in not helpful at all. If you have nothing constructive to add, then keep it to yourself.


If you had read ALL of this thread, you would be aware that I did in fact taken my car a couple of times to a independent shop many months ago. He suggested that the master cylinder must be bad so I replaced it. He also used Rheingold software to do a full bleed with no improvement. I called a BMW Dealer Shop to see if they had the BMW bleeding machine. They said no, they just use something like a Motive Power Bleeder which I have so they are of little help.


I would rather fix this myself rather than just throw money at it with little guarantee it would be fixed.


I am of a mind to think modern cars (BMW) have gotten too complex for their own good. If people 'learned how' to drive, all of the crazy sensors, etc... would not be needed!!!!! Keep It Simple!!!!!
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post #193 of 208 Old 11th July 2019, 09:43 PM Thread Starter
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Observations today...


A few days ago I had taken my car to a grassy field and did doughnuts and slides getting the wheels to spin, etc... The DSC light in the center dash lite up a bunch of times. Today I went to a unused paved parking lot that had a sandy stretch. I was able to get up to 40 mph before slamming the brakes as I got onto the sandy area. I was able to pull the car to a stop with what felt like some brake on and off action. I did not see the DSC light come on at all. Should it flash on/off as the ABS works? I had sent the whole ABS Assembly (hydraulics and electronics) out for testing and repair that cost me $250 USD.


The brake pedal still under firm pressure go down to the floor. In a few days, I will re-bleed the system using DIS57. Not sure if there was air in the ABS/DSC that has now moved into the lines going to the calipers.


And Yes, I am getting very pissed off that this issue has not been resolved already!!!!!
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post #194 of 208 Old 11th July 2019, 10:19 PM
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Originally Posted by mr_g_bock View Post
I was able to get up to 40 mph before slamming the brakes as I got onto the sandy area. I was able to pull the car to a stop with what felt like some brake on and off action. I did not see the DSC light come on at all. Should it flash on/off as the ABS works?
I've never seen a light activate with ABS braking in any of my BMWs. You can feel it in the pedal though and hear it at the same time, so no need to decide if it's active or not. Find a clear road with plenty of sight distance, get up to 50-60mph and hammer the brakes. You should very quickly be into ABS and feel the pedal pulsing underfoot accompanied by the growling, pulsing ABS noise. Either that or your ABS is faulty in which case one or more brakes will lock up...be ready. If you're not used to handling a one wheel (or two, three) lockup situation at speed, perhaps lower you starting speed to 30 or 40mph. In any event have plenty of safe runoff room.

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post #195 of 208 Old 12th July 2019, 06:35 AM
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Did you try to repair the solenoids on the ABS units? Or possibly get one from Clemster ( Adam )

Don't stress about Sailor24, his advice is out of order and kind of rude if I may. Keep working on the solution which will benefit all of us and I also agree on those professional mechanics, they just want to rip you off, the board is full of horror stories 2ith these so-called experts.

CSBM5 has always provided great advice, listen to him.

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post #196 of 208 Old 12th July 2019, 09:12 PM Thread Starter
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I will have to wait till after the weekend to do the higher speed ABS tests. This is Florida and there seems to be many more wacky drivers out and about then. This is Good info coming.


My plan is to write up 'the fix' for this issue in detail. I have the impression that this is a common issue and should be addressed.
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post #197 of 208 Old 14th July 2019, 02:28 AM Thread Starter
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Where to go from here...


I took a chance today (Saturday) and test drove the beast and get the ABS to work. About six months ago, I had sent the whole DSC/ABS electro-hydraulic assembly out for testing and any repair to a shop in Massachusetts I think. If I remember rightly, the ABS should come on like a rapid fire machine gun pulsing the brakes under hard braking but not locking up the wheels. I seem to remember that feeling many years ago while doing the M5 new buyer driving experience at Spartinburg, South Carolina back in 2003. Normally, I turn the DSC off, but I thought that also effected the ABS too. With the DSC on (no dash indicator light, not off), I did about a dozen very hard stops from 60, 80 and a few at 85 mph. In all cases the car stopped very quickly and straight as an arrow with no skidding at all. I can't say that I felt any rapid fire pulses going on though. Also, I did not feel the the pedal firm up at all after all the hard stops. While stopped at a light, I can still push the pedal down to the floor. If there was air in the ABS system, maybe it moved from there and into the brake lines? Try and re-bleed the brake/ABS lines looking for air bubbles?



Are there any other test methods to determine what is or isn't working here and narrow the problem down?


Please advise!! THANKS!!!!
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post #198 of 208 Old 14th July 2019, 12:24 PM
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I don't understand. When braking very hard, if you apply major force, as in trying to break the brake pedal force, ABS should be right there. It's particularly easy to activate ABS it seems if you are braking very hard and about 30-40mph you *really* push as hard as possible on the pedal. I've had students in the past who were afraid of majorly pushing the brake pedal, so not sure if that's the case here? Remember those ABS exercises they teach at the PC where the instructor is egging you on to absolutely bury the brake pedal? Try it at only 40mph or so in case ABS doesn't work (in which case with a wheel locking up as soon as the car starts to slew you need to ease off the brake pedal and possibly correct the yaw movement with the steering wheel). Plenty of room around you, no traffic, 40mph, get on the brakes with the intention of pushing the brake pedal through the firewall, no questions asked.

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post #199 of 208 Old 15th July 2019, 07:43 AM
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Unfortunately I have read this thread and I see mistake after mistake. I am not trying to offend you or get your back up. The guy you took the car to was not the right guy! The way you are going about this might be the best that you can do, but it is not even close to what a real pro can do. You need specialized equipment to test farther. If I had the car I might have done this day one but for sure after it would not bleed and again after the ABS was repaired.
You need to have someone with the correct equipment to test the pressure, out of the Master then out of the ABS,etc. It is time consuming and it will cost you, the lines have to be removed then the gauges go in then bleed. So time = money, read not cheap.
Do what ever you want it is your car, but I doubt you will get to the bottom of this without the gauges to tell you pressures.
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post #200 of 208 Old Yesterday, 03:25 AM Thread Starter
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Sailor24,


I am not sure what to make of your comment for having the "correct equipment" and gauges to pressure test the ABS unit. This is the first that this was mentioned after almost a year of web searching the Soft Brake Pedal issue. I did see quite a few people with BMW and other car brands with the same issue. I seriously doubt any shop in all of Florida has this or the expertise to carry out the test (I may be wrong). I did talk to a BMW Shop Manager to see if they had the special machine for brake fluid flushing. They did not... They just use a power bleeder like I have.



This is my first BMW and will be my last. I can't believe BMW would design such a system that would require expensive equipment and labor to diagnose, much less repair!!!! Why there isn't a bleed screw on the ABS simplify all of this.


The other day I took the M5 out for more hard breaking. I got up to 60/70 mph and Slammed on the brakes As Hard As I Could! There was no wheel lockup, skidding or funny stuff. The car came to a halt very quickly. My foot on the pedal was almost all the way to the floor, but the car did stop. Once fully stopped, I can still push the pedal to the floor, that is not like any of my other cars.


At this point, I could not care if the ABS or the DSC works or not. I always turn the DSC Off, Sport On. It is the unsettling feeling of the brake pedal going ever so deep to the floor that I want to fix. There are no warning lights, error codes of any sort. Most all of the brake system has been replaced (not the brake booster as it is good).



I don't think I have come across anyone who had this issue and had a fix that worked. If anyone has been there and did the fix, please advise!!!!!


Thanks
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