E39 M5 Spring Or Wheel Rates - Page 2 - BMW M5 Forum and M6 Forums
E39 M5 and E52 Z8 Discussion 1998-2003 Advertiser's Forum

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post #11 of 17 Old 19th October 2018, 04:56 PM Thread Starter
Marquis Rex
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Obioban View Post
I don't believe your e46 M3 stock frequencies are correct, and .9 isn't the e46 M3 front motion ratio (not sure if you were trying to say it was or not, just clarifying). The e46 m3 suspension geometry and spring location are completely different than the e39s, so I wouldn't use that as any sort of basis for the e39's motion ratios (again, if you were).

BMW has ~20% flat ride on pretty much every car they make. I don't know for a fact that this holds true on the M5, as I've never dug into, but it certainly feels like it does.

Im getting 12% higher rear wheel freqs on the E46 M3 (stock) over the front.


I'm getting 1.47 hz rear and 1.31 Hz front.

2000 MY Jaguar XJR
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post #12 of 17 Old 19th October 2018, 05:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marquis Rex View Post
I didn't quote the E46 motion ratios.


The values for the E39 I got from a thread elsewhere.


Yes, I'm aware that the E46 layout is very different to the E39.


Feel free to nit pick some more by all means, but what would really help would be OEM E39 M5 spring OR wheel rates (yes Im aware that theyre not the same thing and that wheel frequencies are what really counts- thank you!).
You seem to be taking this a bit personally, so I'm just going to bow out and let you do your thing. Best of luck with your project!
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post #13 of 17 Old 19th October 2018, 05:02 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Obioban View Post
You seem to be taking this a bit personally, so I'm just going to bow out and let you do your thing. Best of luck with your project!
Apologies, British Sarcasm/humour can be difficult to decipher online.
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2000 MY Jaguar XJR
1972 Jaguar XJ6 series 1
1970 Jaguar E-type OTS
2007 Cadillac Escalade
2003 MY Dodge Ram 5.7 Hemi
2005 Dodge Ram 2500 Cummins
1995 Porsche 911 Turbo (993)
1982 BMW E21 323i
1970 Dodge Challenger 440 cu in R/T
2006 Aston Martin V8 Vantage
1985 BMW E24 M635CSi
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post #14 of 17 Old 1st April 2019, 08:36 PM Thread Starter
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I have obtained front and rear springs from an e39 M5. Now I’m going to get the rates measured to settle all this finger waving! If anyone’s interested- will let you all know.
Attached Thumbnails
6D073627-8C34-43D2-AE9C-D662772202C9_1554143768732.jpeg   2E230C2F-41B2-4803-8ED6-775630C13193_1554143789836.jpeg  

2000 MY Jaguar XJR
1972 Jaguar XJ6 series 1
1970 Jaguar E-type OTS
2007 Cadillac Escalade
2003 MY Dodge Ram 5.7 Hemi
2005 Dodge Ram 2500 Cummins
1995 Porsche 911 Turbo (993)
1982 BMW E21 323i
1970 Dodge Challenger 440 cu in R/T
2006 Aston Martin V8 Vantage
1985 BMW E24 M635CSi
1964 MCI MC5 Greyhound Bus-RV conversion
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post #15 of 17 Old 1st April 2019, 10:45 PM
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Hi Marquis Rex,

My university engineering learning days are over now, so although I get the gist of what you are mentioning, real world knowledge and experience based on solid engineering principles for this application I don't have.

In the days prior to coilovers and when there was a lot less choice of products including suspension packages for BMW's, I used to use a local company to me (long since gone now) who'd make me custom springs depending on what I wanted. In those days, you either went 'expensive' for Koni or 'entry level/cheap' for Jamex lowered suspension kits (I had a number of E30's through all of the 1990's). The Jamex kits I used to go for and then have the custom springs made. Many of West London's other BMW guys used to ask me how I'd get my ride height along with which wheels I was running - to which I never used to tell them ! My 'mistake' back then was to use the Jamex springs and/or the used springs from the car to have analysed/tested.

So my question to you is did you get brand new or used springs? I remember that there's such a thing as metal fatigue so a used spring will have some of that and thus, wouldn't be an '100%' benchmark. I'd suggest in you getting brand new OEM M5 springs to be tested, or, maybe write into BMW to ask them if they'd provide the specification from the actual engineering design.

I've really loved the H&R Springs I had on my previous E34 525i Sport using the oem MTEC shocks, and that car rode fantastically well for 30mm lowering, no one could tell or knew the car was lowered, ride quality was fantastic. I put H&R springs on my E39 Touring in 2006 and they're still on today! on OEM standard shocks, I Was told by numerous suspension speciaiist manufacturers that 30mm was as low I could go without using Sport/Shortened shock absorbers.

I'm thinking to go coilovers but part of me still wants to get al new Sport shocks and use D Faulkner Springs to make me some custom springs. Drop them an email or give them a call to discuss - Suspension springs for the Motorsport Industry | D Faulkner Springs LLP

There's another place I spoke to and for the life of me I Can't remember their name, expect they're just a few miles south of Birmingham (or at least they used to be a couple years back). I'd also say to speak to KW suspension as well as direct with Dinan in the USA so that you get a good spread of knowledge/expertise and real world testing/knowledge to augment your increased knowledge.

I guess brand new E39 M5 suspension would be nice, but having been in plenty, including fairly low miled examples (25-50K) I thought the ride was far too bouncy/wallowy and allowed a lot of body roll. If you aren't or won't be driving your M5 when you get it, enthusiastically then seems your project has more potential for you. If you will be driving more enthusiastically, I'd say alter you benchmark for a better handling/rated spring with respect to the characteristics you want.

Cheers, Dennis!

2003 Ex-Police E39 530 Diesel Touring. Alpine White, 260,000+ Miles & climbing!

Wheels;
19" Hartge Nova 5 - with custom painted 'Flash Chrome' centres & Polished Lips (set of 5)
19" Hartge Nova 5 - Awaiting custom re-finish (set of 4)
19" Hartge Classic - with custom powder coated centres in shadow chrome & diamond cut/no lacquer lips (set of 5)
20" Hartge Classic - Awaiting custom re-finish
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External;
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Engine;

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post #16 of 17 Old 1st April 2019, 11:44 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DennisCooper View Post
Hi Marquis Rex,

My university engineering learning days are over now, so although I get the gist of what you are mentioning, real world knowledge and experience based on solid engineering principles for this application I don't have.

In the days prior to coilovers and when there was a lot less choice of products including suspension packages for BMW's, I used to use a local company to me (long since gone now) who'd make me custom springs depending on what I wanted. In those days, you either went 'expensive' for Koni or 'entry level/cheap' for Jamex lowered suspension kits (I had a number of E30's through all of the 1990's). The Jamex kits I used to go for and then have the custom springs made. Many of West London's other BMW guys used to ask me how I'd get my ride height along with which wheels I was running - to which I never used to tell them ! My 'mistake' back then was to use the Jamex springs and/or the used springs from the car to have analysed/tested.

So my question to you is did you get brand new or used springs? I remember that there's such a thing as metal fatigue so a used spring will have some of that and thus, wouldn't be an '100%' benchmark. I'd suggest in you getting brand new OEM M5 springs to be tested, or, maybe write into BMW to ask them if they'd provide the specification from the actual engineering design.

I've really loved the H&R Springs I had on my previous E34 525i Sport using the oem MTEC shocks, and that car rode fantastically well for 30mm lowering, no one could tell or knew the car was lowered, ride quality was fantastic. I put H&R springs on my E39 Touring in 2006 and they're still on today! on OEM standard shocks, I Was told by numerous suspension speciaiist manufacturers that 30mm was as low I could go without using Sport/Shortened shock absorbers.

I'm thinking to go coilovers but part of me still wants to get al new Sport shocks and use D Faulkner Springs to make me some custom springs. Drop them an email or give them a call to discuss - Suspension springs for the Motorsport Industry | D Faulkner Springs LLP

There's another place I spoke to and for the life of me I Can't remember their name, expect they're just a few miles south of Birmingham (or at least they used to be a couple years back). I'd also say to speak to KW suspension as well as direct with Dinan in the USA so that you get a good spread of knowledge/expertise and real world testing/knowledge to augment your increased knowledge.

I guess brand new E39 M5 suspension would be nice, but having been in plenty, including fairly low miled examples (25-50K) I thought the ride was far too bouncy/wallowy and allowed a lot of body roll. If you aren't or won't be driving your M5 when you get it, enthusiastically then seems your project has more potential for you. If you will be driving more enthusiastically, I'd say alter you benchmark for a better handling/rated spring with respect to the characteristics you want.

Cheers, Dennis!

Hey Dennis- thanks for the response. Seeing your post and cars, immediately brought back memories! I'm from North London and grew up there with my beloved BMW E21 323i (which is still being refurbished and the guys taking forver!). On that I used Konis and Eibach springs. Much fewer options back then in the early nineties.


Its nice to see folks in the UK are sill modifying vehicles despite all the increasing regulations.
Now bear in mind I don't own an M5 or even an E39, as amazing as they are, I'm using the spring rates to work out the wheel rates to use for my Jaguar XJR (a REALLY wallowly machine!). I'm invested into the X308, as I used to work for Jaguar and it was one of the first in depth projects I had back then. Talked to my ex pro drive ride and handling friend, and this can be done, the C of G is similar, (XJR is 52% front weight), the dynamic index is almost identicle to the M5, the torsional rigidity isn't a million miles away and the Jags can be brought up.


So I can totally see the perspective of these cars being wallowy, although bear in mind I have other dedicated sports cars for high performance this Jag will be my daily driver on these TERRIBLE roads (much worse than London, believe me!).


Theres nothing available for the Jag, but I'm going custom in terms of shocks and springs.

2000 MY Jaguar XJR
1972 Jaguar XJ6 series 1
1970 Jaguar E-type OTS
2007 Cadillac Escalade
2003 MY Dodge Ram 5.7 Hemi
2005 Dodge Ram 2500 Cummins
1995 Porsche 911 Turbo (993)
1982 BMW E21 323i
1970 Dodge Challenger 440 cu in R/T
2006 Aston Martin V8 Vantage
1985 BMW E24 M635CSi
1964 MCI MC5 Greyhound Bus-RV conversion
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post #17 of 17 Old 8th May 2019, 04:36 PM Thread Starter
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These are the results of the spring rate tests for the E39 M5 front (green) and rear (Orange)
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D207558D-35D1-4AA8-81F5-DAFF888B46EC_1557326168489.png  

2000 MY Jaguar XJR
1972 Jaguar XJ6 series 1
1970 Jaguar E-type OTS
2007 Cadillac Escalade
2003 MY Dodge Ram 5.7 Hemi
2005 Dodge Ram 2500 Cummins
1995 Porsche 911 Turbo (993)
1982 BMW E21 323i
1970 Dodge Challenger 440 cu in R/T
2006 Aston Martin V8 Vantage
1985 BMW E24 M635CSi
1964 MCI MC5 Greyhound Bus-RV conversion
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