DIY: Xtrons PB7639BP Android Head Unit Installation - Page 4 - BMW M5 Forum and M6 Forums
E39 M5 and E52 Z8 Discussion 1998-2003 Advertiser's Forum

 67Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rating: Thread Rating: 6 votes, 5.00 average. Display Modes
post #31 of 354 Old 26th February 2018, 12:35 PM
///MJay
Member, Sport: Off DSC: On (>50 posts)
 
///MJay's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Cincinnati
Posts: 67
Thanks: 0
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Garage
Thanks guys.

My last 5-6 setups have been active vs passive.

From my understanding a digital signal is a digital signal so the internal SQ should be a non issue for my needs. Does it have a digital output?

In my case I think I will put it together as you have laid out with all the extras. Giving me the obc access. Then I will run the output to an aftermarket processor (for time alignment and crossovers and EQ). Then to aftermarket amps and onto the aftermarket speakers.



Sent from my SM-N950U1 using Tapatalk
///MJay is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #32 of 354 Old 26th February 2018, 10:25 PM
DennisCooper
Member, P500 Sport, MDM on (>800)
 
DennisCooper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: West London/Heathrow - UK
Posts: 831
Thanks: 6
Thanked 159 Times in 136 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by ///MJay View Post
Thanks guys.

My last 5-6 setups have been active vs passive.

From my understanding a digital signal is a digital signal so the internal SQ should be a non issue for my needs. Does it have a digital output?

In my case I think I will put it together as you have laid out with all the extras. Giving me the obc access. Then I will run the output to an aftermarket processor (for time alignment and crossovers and EQ). Then to aftermarket amps and onto the aftermarket speakers.



Sent from my SM-N950U1 using Tapatalk
Hi Mjay & Stickey,

If good/great SQ is a top or very important priority for you, then I suspect you'll be disappointed. The mass produced chinese 'clone' units like this 'Xtrons' use generic/basic quality components/IC's and are essentially 'cheap tablet' electronics housed in an E39 shaped chassis. There's no Digital Audio output either. I've heard quite a number of E39s including M5's where owners have installed any one of the chinese units and then installed high quality amplifiers and then speakers all in some awesome builds. They've initially been happy, and then, once the well known issues with these head units begin to show up, they've become more annoyed. It's at that point, a premium brand head unit has been swapped in and transformed the audio experience for the better! Words like 'it sounds so much more open now' and 'I can't believe how smooth and detailed it sounds' along with 'I shouldn't have wasted my money on that *chinese clone brand* unit! If you do go with this 'Xtrons' then I suspect it'll be the same for you in a relative short space of time.

There again, your unit 'might' continue to work properly longer term AND you'll be happy with the SQ - which is absolutely fine as it's your car and setup! The day you listen to a similar setup but using a higher quality head unit in an E39, remember this post once you pick your jaw up off the floor!

Ger - I haven't used the App thats' from the seller in Germany, but I'll assume a quick email into him will get you some pointers back. I suspect those pointers will be to transfer the file to the head unit and then open it to begin installing it locally - or something like that !

For those who have/will take the plunge with this unit, 'Hopefully' you'll get working units out of the box that remain fully working longer term - Good luck !!

Cheers, Dennis!

2003 Ex-Police E39 530 Diesel Touring. Alpine White, 260,000+ Miles & climbing!

Wheels;
19" Hartge Nova 5 - with custom painted 'Flash Chrome' centres & Polished Lips (set of 5)
19" Hartge Nova 5 - Awaiting custom re-finish (set of 4)
19" Hartge Classic - with custom powder coated centres in shadow chrome & diamond cut/no lacquer lips (set of 5)
20" Hartge Classic - Awaiting custom re-finish
19" 3Pc Forged wheels - ID retained until re-built & finished (2 sets)
20" 3Pc Forged wheels -ID retained until re-built & finished
19" Centres - ID retained until rebuilt & finished
Audio;
Full Custom Audio install - Arc Audio KS Mini ampliifers. DLS 5.25" 2 way front components & 4" 2 way co-axials. JL Audio 8W3-V3 subwoofer in stealth enclosure. Parrot Asteroid Smart head unit, custom door builds for DLS front stage & Earthquake SWS6 flatline subwoofers, custom rear pillar speaker pods. LumiDock iPod dock,

External;
H&R Springs, ExoticsTuning front lip spoiler, Sport F/R bumpers upgrade, Carbon Fibre effect printed Vinyl roof wrap, High gloss black vinyl window trim wrap, Hartge bonnet/hood & tailgate badges, rear rooftip spoiler, matt Black kidney grille, projector foglamps.

Internal;
Hartge auto gearlever, Hartge Handbrake handle, Hartge door sill strips, E46 M3 CSL Alcantara/Tri-stitch SMG steering wheel, full Black Leather Sport seats,

Engine;

Custom ECU re-map biased for more Power & Torque in Steptronic mode, EGR delete, K&N induction kit, Stainless steel de-cat, Stainless steel exhaust backbox with twin oval pipes. Manual 5 spd gearbox conversion.

Plenty more modifications to come!
DennisCooper is online now  
post #33 of 354 Old 27th February 2018, 01:28 AM
stickey
Member, Sport: On DSC: On (>100 posts)
 
stickey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 128
Thanks: 7
Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts
Garage
I would assume you could get time alignment capabilities on this HU. I had TA on an empeg circa 2000, and we're 18 years later. Not a deal killer for me, as I'd rather have the OEM look and OBD/OBC capabilities than a top shelf HU.

My last few systems have been Acura Bose systems (2003 and 2007 TL), I've had a jeep tj with BA separates and an 8" solobaric (the empeg), a 1986 E28 with a single 10" sub and some JL components (cheap sony HU), and acura integra with a 10" sub and stock separates on amps and stock HU.

I'm not looking for an all out SQ winner - but a good HU with flexibility of inputs (BT, USB, microSD, CD/DVD drive, radio, and HD radio), and the ability to drive some good speakers properly, and get some current level of technology into an older car.

I do recall some guy who took apart B&W speakers and put them in an old 5 or 7 series BMW from way back. McIntosh (maybe?) amps, maybe tube amps, etc.... that's not what I need.

2000 E39 M5 Dinan S2, Estoril Blue
stickey is offline  
 
post #34 of 354 Old 27th February 2018, 07:47 PM Thread Starter
Rontgen
m5board.comoholic (>1000 posts)
 
Rontgen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Oklahoma City, OK
Posts: 1,150
Thanks: 67
Thanked 227 Times in 193 Posts
I believe there is Time Alignment on the Xtrons (and it does appear to function with the DSP amp), based solely on my limited understanding of Time Alignment in general.

Its important to remember that the DSP amp is strange in its design and the functionality can be somewhat confusing. The DSP amp is based around the idea of a fixed input amplitude, and the volume/gain is adjusted internally on the amp via iBus network commands. Same for fader/balance/EQ, etc. The Xtrons has all these same functions natively, but they are essentially "layered" over the DSP amp's functionality

For example - you have an EQ on the Xtrons as you'd expect. Several presets (Jazz, Rock, pop, etc) and the ability to store a custom setting. This modifies the output of the Xtrons, prior to input on the DSP Amp. Then, the DSP amp has it's own internal EQ which is controlled via the iBus app. Set them both to Jazz and it sounds awful. Set them both to Flat and it sounds even worse. Set the Xtrons to Rock and the DSP to Memo 3 and it sounds better. I suspect theres several combinations that sound ok but the majority do not. It can be a challenge to dial in good sound simply because of the redundancy of these features.

Also, the DSP amp appears to be inconsistent as to it's start-up settings. Sometimes it's loud, sometimes it's quiet - again - it's weird. While the iBus app works great, the DSP amp itself seems to have variable start-up behavior. It seems to revolve around whether the car sat idle long enough to exceed the 16-minute standby time and really go to sleep, but I need to troubleshoot a little more. Minor annoyance, but it's there.

For best (and consistent) sound quality, I'd probably recommend ditching the DSP amp & speakers entirely. Keeping DSP is convenient and easier to install - no question. But be aware there are some sacrifices to be made in terms of the overall sound quality and functionality in general.

- Darrell

2001 M5 - Jet Black / Black Sport Interior
Rontgen is offline  
post #35 of 354 Old 27th February 2018, 08:31 PM
DennisCooper
Member, P500 Sport, MDM on (>800)
 
DennisCooper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: West London/Heathrow - UK
Posts: 831
Thanks: 6
Thanked 159 Times in 136 Posts
Hi,

Stickey - 'DSP' is the electronics industry shorthand for 'Digital Signal Processing' and you'll find allsorts of audio products that use it to a greater or lesser extent, both today and from over the last 2 and a bit decades. For the E39 specific application, it was to provide 'effects' like being in a Church, Jazz Club, Stadium etc, and whilst all the rage in the mid 90's, by the end of that decade it'd fallen out of fashion for those kinds of effects. The 'clone' cheap chinese type head units with 'badges' on from Xtrons, Enon, Pumpkin, Seicane, Erisin and so on don't have Time Alignment included - remember, they're simply cheap tablet electronics housed in that car specific chassis. The audio stages are generic so not all that good in terms of audio performance and capability and the difference is substantial when directly compared to a high quality brand head unit as I mentioned above in friends cars including E39's and M5's. I'm not suggesting that you need to go for a competition level of performance either - moreover, somewhere in the 'middle' so that you get an excellent blend of Money spent Vs performance AND functionality gained. Depending on which recognized car audio brands you use for the amplifier(s) and components speakers/co-axials/sunwoofers, then assuming you go 'middle level' on those, then they'll similarly not perform to what they're capable of when using a cheap quality chinese head unit, so my point is, you'll 'most likely' be disappointed in the short/medium and longer term!

Rontgen - As above there's no Time Alignment capability on this unit and other similar priced clone units. Also, these units don't 'directly' connect with the OEM 'DSP' amp as has been discussed on many threads over the years. There's some hacks/workarounds, so those will need to be done which just adds to the installation time and complexity. The Dynavin N6/7 was the only one until a few weeks/months ago which had the capability to connect to the OEM DSP amp. Lately, the Avin Avant 3 also promises this as well.

At the CES show and SEMA 2009/2010 I spoke to representatives of Xtrons as well as a few other Chinese 'brands' of car audio who were showing BMW specific models. I did ask about components and electronics and within a few minutes I was away from them all. I did think to become a UK importer/re-seller but quashed that idea quickly afterwards. Over the last 6/7 years, various companies have tried to be 'official' sellers of various brands - Dynavin, Eonon, Hualingan etc and within a few months they all either failed or decided to stop selling them. One brand did stay around for perhaps 18 months or so - called Andrive, but they stopped/folded too. In the US, Dynavin is properly supported and given after sales care, so I'd say purchase one of those. The Avin has come out with their Avant 3 and also had a US base for support so I'd say consider that as well. For those who want to take the gamble with the other 'clone' brands off Amazon or Ebay, then like so many other threads over the years - which turned to train wrecks quite quickly, then this thread is likely to go the same way. To be balanced, then 'maybe' Xtrons do indeed have a good, reliable, consistently performing head unit here.

Here's the Xtrons site - there's no mention of Time Alignment nor support for the OEM BMW DSP amplifier - Buy BMW 5 Series E39 Android Car Stereo | Xtrons

Lastly - Good luck to those who've taken the plunge or will be. If 'Xtrons' prove to be a good unit now and have proper reliable dealer support, then I'll definitely consider them to import to the UK officially for BMW owners here.

Cheers, Dennis!

2003 Ex-Police E39 530 Diesel Touring. Alpine White, 260,000+ Miles & climbing!

Wheels;
19" Hartge Nova 5 - with custom painted 'Flash Chrome' centres & Polished Lips (set of 5)
19" Hartge Nova 5 - Awaiting custom re-finish (set of 4)
19" Hartge Classic - with custom powder coated centres in shadow chrome & diamond cut/no lacquer lips (set of 5)
20" Hartge Classic - Awaiting custom re-finish
19" 3Pc Forged wheels - ID retained until re-built & finished (2 sets)
20" 3Pc Forged wheels -ID retained until re-built & finished
19" Centres - ID retained until rebuilt & finished
Audio;
Full Custom Audio install - Arc Audio KS Mini ampliifers. DLS 5.25" 2 way front components & 4" 2 way co-axials. JL Audio 8W3-V3 subwoofer in stealth enclosure. Parrot Asteroid Smart head unit, custom door builds for DLS front stage & Earthquake SWS6 flatline subwoofers, custom rear pillar speaker pods. LumiDock iPod dock,

External;
H&R Springs, ExoticsTuning front lip spoiler, Sport F/R bumpers upgrade, Carbon Fibre effect printed Vinyl roof wrap, High gloss black vinyl window trim wrap, Hartge bonnet/hood & tailgate badges, rear rooftip spoiler, matt Black kidney grille, projector foglamps.

Internal;
Hartge auto gearlever, Hartge Handbrake handle, Hartge door sill strips, E46 M3 CSL Alcantara/Tri-stitch SMG steering wheel, full Black Leather Sport seats,

Engine;

Custom ECU re-map biased for more Power & Torque in Steptronic mode, EGR delete, K&N induction kit, Stainless steel de-cat, Stainless steel exhaust backbox with twin oval pipes. Manual 5 spd gearbox conversion.

Plenty more modifications to come!
DennisCooper is online now  
post #36 of 354 Old 27th February 2018, 09:37 PM Thread Starter
Rontgen
m5board.comoholic (>1000 posts)
 
Rontgen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Oklahoma City, OK
Posts: 1,150
Thanks: 67
Thanked 227 Times in 193 Posts
Xtrons PB7639BP Android Head Unit Installation

Hi Dennis,



I'll admit, I have a limited understanding of Time Alignment. My understanding was it was a way of adjusting the sound timing so that all sounds arrive at a specific location within the car at the same time(I assume the driver's head would be the most common). My only experience with it was with my Dynavin N6 and it didn't even work with the DSP amp (at least in the early N6 days). If there's more to it, please feel free to add.



The screen shots below are from my Xtrons unit. The screen looks very similar to the TA screen on my N6 and the TA does appear to work, with one exception. If I choose anything in the rear seat, audio goes totally silent. I'm not sure if this is a result of something with the Xtrons, the DSP amp, and/or the fact that I have M-Audio, so I don't have any speakers in my rear doors.

*Edit*. Had some time to do some reading tonight about TA and Iím changing my tune, I agree with Dennis that this does not appear to have time alignment capability. The screen does look very similar to the Dynavin at first glance, but after comparing it does not have the individual time delay settings.



FWIW, with the Fader adjusted to the "Front" preset, it sounds very good. Much better than with it centered, actually.












- Darrell

2001 M5 - Jet Black / Black Sport Interior

Last edited by Rontgen; 28th February 2018 at 05:47 AM.
Rontgen is offline  
post #37 of 354 Old 27th February 2018, 09:56 PM Thread Starter
Rontgen
m5board.comoholic (>1000 posts)
 
Rontgen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Oklahoma City, OK
Posts: 1,150
Thanks: 67
Thanked 227 Times in 193 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by DennisCooper View Post
Hi,
Also, these units don't 'directly' connect with the OEM 'DSP' amp as has been discussed on many threads over the years. There's some hacks/workarounds, so those will need to be done which just adds to the installation time and complexity. The Dynavin N6/7 was the only one until a few weeks/months ago which had the capability to connect to the OEM DSP amp. Lately, the Avin Avant 3 also promises this as well.
Correct, none of the Android units natively connect with the DSP Amp and that includes the Avin Avant 3. Avin uses the exact same Resler interface & iBus app described earlier in this thread to achieve DSP (and OBC) integration. Also, I believe the Avant 3 uses the same PX5 mainboard as the Xtrons (the specs and connectors are identical)

Quote:
In the US, Dynavin is properly supported and given after sales care, so I'd say purchase one of those. The Avin has come out with their Avant 3 and also had a US base for support so I'd say consider that as well. For those who want to take the gamble with the other 'clone' brands off Amazon or Ebay, then like so many other threads over the years - which turned to train wrecks quite quickly, then this thread is likely to go the same way. To be balanced, then 'maybe' Xtrons do indeed have a good, reliable, consistently performing head unit here.
I'm a previous customer of Jeff @ J&T and he is absolutely great to work with. Helpful, accommodating, and more than willing to go the extra mile to make things right. However, he's at Dynavin's mercy in terms of system features and functionality. Quite frankly, Dynavin has missed the boat with the N7 and their upgrade price for CarPlay/Android Auto makes the system far, far too expensive for what it is. I had an N6 for several years. It was ok, but it's worth mentioning I went through 2 of them before I got one that worked long-term. Updates from Dynavin were few and far between and there were several issues that were never quite worked out.

I purchased a OBD2 Bluetooth adapter from Xtrons and it arrived defective. I simply sent them an email, they replied very quickly, and they dropped another one in the mail to me. In contrast, I sent Dynavin 3 separate emails about system/software bugs, to which they never bothered to respond.

In the end, there's not a perfect option - it's a trade-off between price, features, SQ, reliability, and so on....

- Darrell

2001 M5 - Jet Black / Black Sport Interior

Last edited by Rontgen; 27th February 2018 at 09:58 PM.
Rontgen is offline  
post #38 of 354 Old 28th February 2018, 02:57 AM Thread Starter
Rontgen
m5board.comoholic (>1000 posts)
 
Rontgen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Oklahoma City, OK
Posts: 1,150
Thanks: 67
Thanked 227 Times in 193 Posts
As I mentioned earlier in this thread, the mounting brackets included with the Xtrons are a complete joke. Besides being made from really flimsy metal, they don't even fit the chassis correctly. Notice the small silver screw on the back side of the display:



When you mock up the mounting bracket, you realize that there is no recess for that screw to sit in, so the bracket never sits flush. As a result, as you tighten down the top mounting screws it kicks out the bottom and the unit never sits in the dash correctly. You can also see some the swiss cheese that remains after unsuccessfully attempting to get these things to fit right. Total junk.



Thankfully, I'm not the only E39 enthusiast that hates these brackets. One of the moderators on the German iBus Facebook group (Andreas aka "Da Ondy") evidently has a 3D printer and the skills to make replacement brackets. At 19EUR ($23) shipped from Germany, this was a no brainer.

I'm thrilled to report that these fit very nicely. Notice the recess for the mounting screw I mentioned above and the slotted screw holes for a little bit of adjustability. They also utilize a much more substantial screw to attach the Xtrons unit to the bracket rather than the stock BMW 3mm fine thread screw. I need to make a slight adjustment (to pull the top outward), but aside from that, these are going to work perfectly. Highly recommended!

Yes, I still need to put in the decorative cover plugs in the upper corners.














- Darrell

2001 M5 - Jet Black / Black Sport Interior
Rontgen is offline  
post #39 of 354 Old 28th February 2018, 05:11 AM
a_ok2me
m5board.comoholic (>1000 posts)
 
a_ok2me's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: NA
Posts: 1,410
Thanks: 43
Thanked 38 Times in 32 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by DennisCooper View Post
The mass produced chinese 'clone' units like this 'Xtrons' use generic/basic quality components/IC's and are essentially 'cheap tablet' electronics
Sounds like oem to me. Not to say that's good though. I think everything in the DSP amp is just getting passed through so I can't imagine why there would be a difference in SQ unless I adjust the EQ on the aftermarket unit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rontgen View Post
The DSP amp is based around the idea of a fixed input amplitude, and the volume/gain is adjusted internally on the amp via iBus network commands. Same for fader/balance/EQ, etc. The Xtrons has all these same functions natively, but they are essentially "layered" over the DSP amp's functionality.
I just set the DSP to my desired setting and pass it through the aftermarket unit and leave the aftermarket unit flat. Sounds exactly like before to me. I also never mess with the fader and balance so it's not an issue for me but it does stink.

All in all I think the benefits outweigh the negatives.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rontgen View Post
As I mentioned earlier in this thread, the mounting brackets included with the Xtrons are a complete joke. Besides being made from really flimsy metal, they don't even fit the chassis correctly.
I think all you need to do is drill out a larger hole in the aftermarket unit and maybe use a washer. There's no mounting screws at the bottom so it'll still stick out about 1 mm. It's not noticeable. I bet you can stick Velcro somewhere near the bottom to pull it in. I haven't done all this myself, just recalling from memory.
a_ok2me is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to a_ok2me For This Useful Post:
Terabass (4th March 2018)
post #40 of 354 Old 28th February 2018, 06:21 AM Thread Starter
Rontgen
m5board.comoholic (>1000 posts)
 
Rontgen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Oklahoma City, OK
Posts: 1,150
Thanks: 67
Thanked 227 Times in 193 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by a_ok2me View Post
I think all you need to do is drill out a larger hole in the aftermarket unit and maybe use a washer. There's no mounting screws at the bottom so it'll still stick out about 1 mm. It's not noticeable. I bet you can stick Velcro somewhere near the bottom to pull it in. I haven't done all this myself, just recalling from memory.

You could certainly drill a larger hole for the mounting screw and rather than a washer to space it out, you could simply drill another hole below it to act as a recessed area. While that all sounds good in theory, the problem is you still have thin sheet metal brackets which flex under the weight of the head unit.

They can be made to work, but as I admitted earlier in the thread - Iím picky about things like this. To me, $23 is a very cheap way to completely change my opinion about how this sits in the dash.

- Darrell

2001 M5 - Jet Black / Black Sport Interior
Rontgen is offline  
Reply

Bookmarks

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the BMW M5 Forum and M6 Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in











Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Linear Mode Linear Mode
Rate This Thread:



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
DIY: Avin Android Head Unit Install (plus new amp) Ikazuchi E39 M5 and E52 Z8 Discussion 58 25th January 2018 10:16 PM
Xtrons PB7639BAP Android Initial Thoughts, Comparison to Dynavin N6 jbla E39 M5 and E52 Z8 Discussion 14 17th November 2017 04:50 PM
Parrot Smart - Shallow Depth Double DIN Android head unit! DennisCooper E39 M5 and E52 Z8 Discussion 68 6th April 2016 01:11 AM
E39 For Sale: Full Nav set up: BM53 radio, MKIII unit, 16x9 E46 Nav head unit SASM5 Parts / Other For Sale or Wanted 14 23rd January 2014 01:55 AM
Cd head unit broster E39 M5 and E52 Z8 Discussion 3 29th December 2012 01:28 AM

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome