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post #41 of 51 Old 18th December 2018, 12:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nosferau666 View Post
Well I think my car achieved pretty good results with just 8 psi and stock headers compared to another similar setups. I'm sure 550+ is not a big deal with headers, new pulleys and a retune and I'm planning to proove it. Since one healthy M5 is capable of 600 wheel I don't see a reason why I couldn't?
550 is very good. I think Barry's car (Steve's old car in California) made 549 at the wheels. Best number I remember seeing.

Make sure you get to look at the AFR's. You need lots of fuel, in part to help cool the intake charge. Compressed air generates lots of heat.


Regards,
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post #42 of 51 Old 18th December 2018, 01:07 AM
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Originally Posted by gsfent View Post
If I wasn't clear, I am definitely in agreement with you about 600 rwhp. I don't know of any cars that have 600 rwhp that have not been sleeved with the exception of the one posted above(absent a race motor by Dusty perhaps--they delete VANOs and are pretty secretive about that info! ). I don't necessarily doubt the results, clearly cooling is a priority (both IC and meth). But I am not sure I want to live that close to the edge. Did I miss the AFR's? That would be pretty important here.

Frank was guessing my setup had 30-50 rwhp with better clutch, so your numbers put him in the correct range. I don't know that the headers or my bigger TB's do much for adding HP with FI. I do have the option of 88mm from 92mm for another 1-1.5 psi of boost. Right now about 8-8.5.

Maybe we can run some hoses from the AC to the plastic intake ala Dodge Demon for better cooling??? LOL

Regards,
Jerry

Lol, yes we are both saying the same thing.

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post #43 of 51 Old 18th December 2018, 01:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nosferau666 View Post
Well I think my car achieved pretty good results with just 8 psi and stock headers compared to another similar setups. I'm sure 550+ is not a big deal with headers, new pulleys and a retune and I'm planning to proove it. Since one healthy M5 is capable of 600 wheel I don't see a reason why I couldn't?
It has and not many get to where you are with exact set-up.

Not that you have not, but if you look at 100 dyno runs N/A and FI you will see that there is very little correlation. What Iíve seen with these engines is that they seem to have anywhere from 0-20 hp difference on dyno runs. You can blame machinery, but the results are pretty wide and I do t think all dyno machines suffer from the same issue or operator errors.

The point I was trying to male across is that donít be disappointed if you donít hit 600. What you achieved is still very good.

To highlight Jerryís point. This car lacks like better fuel like ur using and one member has transitioned to e85 and cooling which this car lacks A LOT.

Iíve had FMIC and it did not work well for me, but hear it worked fine for others. What I have seen work on this car is A2W intercooler which is widely used in factory v8 turbo charged cars. I know this works and could give me another 20 hp that I am looking for, but at this time itís not worth for me due to time, $, and most importantly tune. I will never tune my car with a remote tuner ever again.

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post #44 of 51 Old 18th December 2018, 05:36 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Silent View Post
Thanks for the clarification.

Seems a bit brave to tune for 100 octane, but perhaps the 100 octane gas station is close to you.

Are you running a mixture of meth or 100%?

Also, take this with a grain of salt. You will need more than headers and 2psi to hit 600 wheels. A good set of headers like Jedís, Dinanís, Evolve or Supersprint drop the manifold pressure 1-2psi and in turn will make more N/A power. This would most likely lead you to install a smaller upper pulley to bring the boost level up to where it was resulting gains of additional power.

I am not saying itís impossible, just not likely on factory internals.


I am running 10psi on 91octane with 80/20 meth and I am not close to 600 wheel. Iíll admit my tune isnít perfect and can be improved, but thatís max 10-15hp which will still leave me short of 600 wheel.

Food for thought....
Quote:
Originally Posted by gsfent View Post
I have similar numbers. Of course my TQ is in Lb./ft, not NM! But I pulled 534 rwhp with meth and a slipping clutch on a brutally hot summer day in south Florida. 92mm pulley. I am pretty sure 93 octane here is 100 octane across the pond. Frank Smith did a live tune while on the Dynojet, best tune I have ever had on any car. He said if someone could make a replacement intake for our plastic one out of something other than plasitic, we could pick up a bunch of power due to heat soak we currently have (anyone with a 3D printer out there?? ).


As to 600 rwhp, you need about 700 crank. That to me is a sleeved block and turn up the boost to double digits (and perhaps knock a little off the static compression ratio). I think about 650 crank is all you can do on a stock block without worrying about blowing it up. Supposedly, Dinan tested to about that number and backed it off a little since they were backing their S3 with a warranty!

Regards,
Jerry
Quote:
Originally Posted by Silent View Post
It has and not many get to where you are with exact set-up.

Not that you have not, but if you look at 100 dyno runs N/A and FI you will see that there is very little correlation. What Iíve seen with these engines is that they seem to have anywhere from 0-20 hp difference on dyno runs. You can blame machinery, but the results are pretty wide and I do t think all dyno machines suffer from the same issue or operator errors.

The point I was trying to male across is that donít be disappointed if you donít hit 600. What you achieved is still very good.

To highlight Jerryís point. This car lacks like better fuel like ur using and one member has transitioned to e85 and cooling which this car lacks A LOT.

Iíve had FMIC and it did not work well for me, but hear it worked fine for others. What I have seen work on this car is A2W intercooler which is widely used in factory v8 turbo charged cars. I know this works and could give me another 20 hp that I am looking for, but at this time itís not worth for me due to time, $, and most importantly tune. I will never tune my car with a remote tuner ever again.
I'm agree with you. I'm already more than happy with my current result but if it's possible to achieve something better at the same boost level or a little more I would like to make it happen.

If I ever install an intercooler it will be front mounted A2A for sure.
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post #45 of 51 Old 18th December 2018, 05:54 PM
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Upshot:

There are tried and true FI setups to get the S62 to 550 WHP or thereabouts dependably without too much fanfare. Getting it to or above 600WHP takes a substantial increase in boost and with it, a sleeved block and bottom end capable of withstanding that boost, a good tune, and appropriate cooling of all types: Air, water, and oil. You won't get there with a V3Si (need a V2 Ti-Trim or a V7). You won't get there without some form of AIT cooling (A2A is more reliable, but A2W is more effective in short bursts). You won't get there for long without a built bottom end (sleeves and lighter forged pistons, better rods and bolts, all balanced and blueprinted). I have seen a couple of S62s without built bottom ends and without sleeves exceed 600whp, but in each case, I would not expect those motors to survive hard use with boost in excess of 14 psi for very long. Sometimes, a really good tune and well functioning knock sensors and/or good fuel can permit an S62 to live in those circumstances, but I personally would not count on it. All just my experience and my $.02. Your experience may vary.

--Peter
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post #46 of 51 Old 18th December 2018, 09:57 PM Thread Starter
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My goal for 600 whp would be less boost but better exhaust and cooling. My observations show there are plenty of high boost setups with unsatisfactory results because of inadequate tune. I know two cars with 600-620 whp and 10 psi from V3si and maybe a few more which I've never heard of. As my tuner says the boost is just a restriction, not a measurement for anything.

Last edited by nosferau666; 19th December 2018 at 12:15 AM.
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post #47 of 51 Old 19th December 2018, 06:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nosferau666 View Post
My goal for 600 whp would be less boost but better exhaust and cooling. My observations show there are plenty of high boost setups with unsatisfactory results because of inadequate tune. I know two cars with 600-620 whp and 10 psi from V3si and maybe a few more which I've never heard of. As my tuner says the boost is just a restriction, not a measurement for anything.
The tune makes a huge difference, no doubt. But be careful beating on an stock S62 putting out over 600whp, regardless of how you get there!

--Peter
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post #48 of 51 Old 19th December 2018, 04:32 PM
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Just thought I'd jump in here and share my opinion on this since my goal is 600whp on stock bottom end.

I made 533whp on a dyno dynamics dyno, which reads much lower than dynojets. If I had to guess, I'd say I'm making an easy 560-570whp on a dynojet, all on 9-9.5 psi of boost. I trapped 126mph in the 1/4, which I believe is the better indicator of my current horsepower.

Running E85 is single-handedly one of the best mods I've done besides the supercharger. I picked up ~30whp just swapping fuel with NO changes in the tune to take full advantage of it. With tuning, I'd estimate there's at least another 15-30whp in it. The E85 not only acts as a high octane fuel (105+ octane), but because it requires ~33% more fuel to be injected in all circumstances versus gasoline, it provides a ridiculous amount of cooling.

My plan for 600whp will be swapping my Evolve headers to Jed's headers, raising the boost to around 10-11 psi, and having the car tuned to take full advantage of the E85. I will also be running a wastegate to bump up power "under-the-curve", but that won't effect peak horsepower too much.

I believe 600whp can be done reliably with 10-11 psi on E85. If using pump gas it will be more difficult, and will most likely require additional boost, which comes with additional heat, so this approach is definitely more risky and will require a more traditional way of charge cooling (A2W or A2A IC).

By February I will hopefully have some great results to share.

Chris

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post #49 of 51 Old 19th December 2018, 04:38 PM
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You are really tempting me with the E85, especially the cooling! I have resisted it steadfastly because of lack of ready availability of E85. I assume that has not been an issue for you? I already have the fuel capacity and can adjust my tune to suit the new stoichiometric ratio with a few keyboard strokes.

--Peter
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post #50 of 51 Old 19th December 2018, 04:59 PM
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Peter it is awesome! Even doing hop laps at the track the car never slowed down.

There's a station less than 3 miles from my house (by JFK), so it works out to be very convenient for me. There are stations scattered all over Long Island and Queens, which is where I am driving 95% of the time. If I do decide to go on a long out-of-state road trip, I am running one of the Proflex Commander flex-fuel systems by advanced fuel dynamics, so I can just pump in 93 and their system will compensate for the fueling.

I'll have a separate 93 tune as well, just because timing in the E85 tune will definitely be too aggressive for the pump gas, and I don't trust myself to not go WOT at least a few times per drive lol.

Are you running a standalone ecu? Many support a flex-fuel sensor and can do all of this and so much more. E85 really is a godsend for boosted cars!

Chris

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