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E39 M5 and E52 Z8 Discussion 1998-2003 Advertiser's Forum

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post #31 of 51 Old 10th February 2018, 06:46 PM Thread Starter
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Guys, just wanted to let you know we find out the issue comes from improper tune. We're working on the new tune at the moment so I hope I'll return with dyno results shortly.

Jerry (gsfent), many thanks especially to you for your support!
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post #32 of 51 Old 17th December 2018, 01:13 PM Thread Starter
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Sorry for the delayed update, folks. I'm happy to say wе achieved great results in August (95 degrees ambient temp):


And here it is a Dragy performance report with 100-200 km/h time:


Mods list for the future contains some good headers, 88 pulley and maybe an intercooler, but I'll need a retune as well. At last I expect about 600 whp.

Cheers,
Alex
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post #33 of 51 Old 17th December 2018, 07:09 PM
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Based on my past observations your torque numbers look a bit off.

How much boost, octane level and meth if any?

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post #34 of 51 Old 17th December 2018, 09:38 PM Thread Starter
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post #35 of 51 Old 17th December 2018, 11:05 PM
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Thanks for the clarification.

Seems a bit brave to tune for 100 octane, but perhaps the 100 octane gas station is close to you.

Are you running a mixture of meth or 100%?

Also, take this with a grain of salt. You will need more than headers and 2psi to hit 600 wheels. A good set of headers like Jedís, Dinanís, Evolve or Supersprint drop the manifold pressure 1-2psi and in turn will make more N/A power. This would most likely lead you to install a smaller upper pulley to bring the boost level up to where it was resulting gains of additional power.

I am not saying itís impossible, just not likely on factory internals.


I am running 10psi on 91octane with 80/20 meth and I am not close to 600 wheel. Iíll admit my tune isnít perfect and can be improved, but thatís max 10-15hp which will still leave me short of 600 wheel.

Food for thought....

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post #36 of 51 Old 17th December 2018, 11:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Silent View Post
Thanks for the clarification.

Seems a bit brave to tune for 100 octane, but perhaps the 100 octane gas station is close to you.

Are you running a mixture of meth or 100%?

Also, take this with a grain of salt. You will need more than headers and 2psi to hit 600 wheels. A good set of headers like Jedís, Dinanís, Evolve or Supersprint drop the manifold pressure 1-2psi and in turn will make more N/A power. This would most likely lead you to install a smaller upper pulley to bring the boost level up to where it was resulting gains of additional power.

I am not saying itís impossible, just not likely on factory internals.


I am running 10psi on 91octane with 80/20 meth and I am not close to 600 wheel. Iíll admit my tune isnít perfect and can be improved, but thatís max 10-15hp which will still leave me short of 600 wheel.

Food for thought....
I have similar numbers. Of course my TQ is in Lb./ft, not NM! But I pulled 534 rwhp with meth and a slipping clutch on a brutally hot summer day in south Florida. 92mm pulley. I am pretty sure 93 octane here is 100 octane across the pond. Frank Smith did a live tune while on the Dynojet, best tune I have ever had on any car. He said if someone could make a replacement intake for our plastic one out of something other than plasitic, we could pick up a bunch of power due to heat soak we currently have (anyone with a 3D printer out there?? ).


As to 600 rwhp, you need about 700 crank. That to me is a sleeved block and turn up the boost to double digits (and perhaps knock a little off the static compression ratio). I think about 650 crank is all you can do on a stock block without worrying about blowing it up. Supposedly, Dinan tested to about that number and backed it off a little since they were backing their S3 with a warranty!

Regards,
Jerry

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Dinan Stage 3 suspension, SS jet coated headers, ESS SC kit w/ 1 range colder NGK's, 92mm pulley, 440 Big Greens, TTFS alpha N tune for meth, RK plenum plates, SBC Endurance Stage 3 Kevlar performance clutch setup, "Jed" lightened DMFW, open brake ducts, TEC cupholder, U.S.(Euro style) tilt/slide armrest, 6k HID fogs, Umnitza bi-xenon flamethrowers w/6k super white low beams, rear fogs, V1/Stealth1, dual head LI, 2.65 diff w/40% lockup/2x dynamic, compact spare, Euro trailer hitch, Mocal oil cooler, ACS type rear spoiler, Rogue custom SSK and tranny mounts, ST 355 BBK (fronts), BP sway bar brackets, Bluetooth retrofit, Speedhut boost gauge (20 psi), Dinan TB's and VS, KB BAP, Howerton/HFS-3 Aquamist WI trunk setup (50/50), with 2nd gauge in rear view mirror, aftermarket trunk mounted sound system integrated into stock unit (amps and crossovers and sub and speakers).......
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post #37 of 51 Old 18th December 2018, 12:00 AM Thread Starter
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I'm running water and meth 50/50 ratio.

600 whp is my optimistic target because I have a friend in Germany (my tuner) who built a 620 whp M5 with ported heads, IC, meth, 9.5 psi, otherwise stock internals. It runs strong 15k miles already without any issues. Here it is the graph before porting the heads (704 crank):
safe image upload

Tuner says the key for the big numbers is correct cam timing leading to good throw out, no only huge boost. I don't want to port the heads for sure. Still considering the intercooler, because that involves another S/C bracket, pipes, new blow off valve etc. Planning to do a few dyno runs soon in the winter to see what power puts down when it's cold outside and see the real benefits from the intercooler if any.

Last edited by nosferau666; 18th December 2018 at 12:08 AM.
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post #38 of 51 Old 18th December 2018, 12:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gsfent View Post
I have similar numbers. Of course my TQ is in Lb./ft, not NM! But I pulled 534 rwhp with meth and a slipping clutch on a brutally hot summer day in south Florida. 92mm pulley. I am pretty sure 93 octane here is 100 octane across the pond. Frank Smith did a live tune while on the Dynojet, best tune I have ever had on any car. He said if someone could make a replacement intake for our plastic one out of something other than plasitic, we could pick up a bunch of power due to heat soak we currently have (anyone with a 3D printer out there?? ).


As to 600 rwhp, you need about 700 crank. That to me is a sleeved block and turn up the boost to double digits (and perhaps knock a little off the static compression ratio). I think about 650 crank is all you can do on a stock block without worrying about blowing it up. Supposedly, Dinan tested to about that number and backed it off a little since they were backing their S3 with a warranty!

Regards,
Jerry
Jerry - You prove my point. I pulled similar numbers as you did with same conditions and issues with clutch. Fast forward to Better clutch, Jedís headers, smaller Upper pulley and much more recommended by the same guy who did your tune and I gained a bit over 30whp. Hence my point about 600 wheel.

Just because one or two cars are able to hit those numbers, it does not mean every SC car has a potential of 600. Here is what iíd Say is the best way to get power out of e39 M5, find a way to keep that engine cool.

By the way, I have a better Intake and have not noticed performance gains.

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post #39 of 51 Old 18th December 2018, 12:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Silent View Post
Jerry - You prove my point. I pulled similar numbers as you did with same conditions and issues with clutch. Fast forward to Better clutch, Jed’s headers, smaller Upper pulley and much more recommended by the same guy who did your tune and I gained a bit over 30whp. Hence my point about 600 wheel.

Just because one or two cars are able to hit those numbers, it does not mean every SC car has a potential of 600. Here is what i’d Say is the best way to get power out of e39 M5, find a way to keep that engine cool.

By the way, I have a better Intake and have not noticed performance gains.
If I wasn't clear, I am definitely in agreement with you about 600 rwhp. I don't know of any cars that have 600 rwhp that have not been sleeved with the exception of the one posted above(absent a race motor by Dusty perhaps--they delete VANOs and are pretty secretive about that info! ). I don't necessarily doubt the results, clearly cooling is a priority (both IC and meth). But I am not sure I want to live that close to the edge. Did I miss the AFR's? That would be pretty important here.

Frank was guessing my setup had 30-50 rwhp with better clutch, so your numbers put him in the correct range. I don't know that the headers or my bigger TB's do much for adding HP with FI. I do have the option of 88mm from 92mm for another 1-1.5 psi of boost. Right now about 8-8.5.

Maybe we can run some hoses from the AC to the plastic intake ala Dodge Demon for better cooling??? LOL

Regards,
Jerry

'01 Black/caramel
Dinan Stage 3 suspension, SS jet coated headers, ESS SC kit w/ 1 range colder NGK's, 92mm pulley, 440 Big Greens, TTFS alpha N tune for meth, RK plenum plates, SBC Endurance Stage 3 Kevlar performance clutch setup, "Jed" lightened DMFW, open brake ducts, TEC cupholder, U.S.(Euro style) tilt/slide armrest, 6k HID fogs, Umnitza bi-xenon flamethrowers w/6k super white low beams, rear fogs, V1/Stealth1, dual head LI, 2.65 diff w/40% lockup/2x dynamic, compact spare, Euro trailer hitch, Mocal oil cooler, ACS type rear spoiler, Rogue custom SSK and tranny mounts, ST 355 BBK (fronts), BP sway bar brackets, Bluetooth retrofit, Speedhut boost gauge (20 psi), Dinan TB's and VS, KB BAP, Howerton/HFS-3 Aquamist WI trunk setup (50/50), with 2nd gauge in rear view mirror, aftermarket trunk mounted sound system integrated into stock unit (amps and crossovers and sub and speakers).......

Last edited by gsfent; 18th December 2018 at 12:20 AM.
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post #40 of 51 Old 18th December 2018, 12:24 AM Thread Starter
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Well I think my car achieved pretty good results with just 8 psi and stock headers compared to another similar setups. I'm sure 550+ is not a big deal with headers, new pulleys and a retune and I'm planning to proove it. Since one healthy M5 is capable of 600 wheel I don't see a reason why I couldn't?

Last edited by nosferau666; 18th December 2018 at 12:28 AM.
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