"Friends, Romans, countrymen, other E39 M5 masochists, lend me your ears!" Rod Bearings? Chain Guides? (2 videos...) - Page 2 - BMW M5 Forum and M6 Forums
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post #11 of 31 Old 21st April 2017, 02:09 PM
BreakMyWindow
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Time to remove all 3 front covers and investigate further.

Sounds like a fun project! (Seriously)
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post #12 of 31 Old 21st April 2017, 03:53 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by BreakMyWindow View Post
Time to remove all 3 front covers and investigate further.

Sounds like a fun project! (Seriously)
Yep. I have a 27mm wrench coming, a nice new mirror on a stick and a 32mm to better help turn the crank.

The only thing I need now is time! It likely will be a few hours here, a few there but eventually it'll get done! Maybe I'll suggest the wife and kids go to her parents for the weekend while I do yard work; aka hire a few locals while I get greasy!

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post #13 of 31 Old 21st April 2017, 05:57 PM
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Originally Posted by PutterMcGavin View Post
Maybe I'll suggest the wife and kids go to her parents for the weekend while I do yard work; aka hire a few locals while I get greasy!
I've done that! Haha Just make sure to start the mower in the garage and let it run for a couple minutes so it kinda smells like you actually mowed.

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post #14 of 31 Old 21st April 2017, 10:26 PM
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When you say you replaced the lower tensioner you mean the one on the pass side accessible from the outside? Did it make an appreciable change?

That start is still loud, did you use a compressor when you blew out the noids or just those dumb cans? Can you turn your compressor up to say 150PSI?

I would do the board maintenance again and soak the noids in kerosene and during some periods of soaking spend 5 mins on each noid activating it rapidly. Repeat this a few times in the soak 24 hrs min a week would be better and activation once a day.

If there was a change when you installed the tensioner then you could have a bit of damage to the guides but not destroyed the oil tensioner and chain is also worth a look, my vote pull the pan.

It is not rod knock as that gets much loader as the RPM come up, very annoying by 2500.

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post #15 of 31 Old 22nd April 2017, 02:40 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Sailor24 View Post
When you say you replaced the lower tensioner you mean the one on the pass side accessible from the outside? Did it make an appreciable change?

That start is still loud, did you use a compressor when you blew out the noids or just those dumb cans? Can you turn your compressor up to say 150PSI?

I would do the board maintenance again and soak the noids in kerosene and during some periods of soaking spend 5 mins on each noid activating it rapidly. Repeat this a few times in the soak 24 hrs min a week would be better and activation once a day.

If there was a change when you installed the tensioner then you could have a bit of damage to the guides but not destroyed the oil tensioner and chain is also worth a look, my vote pull the pan.

It is not rod knock as that gets much loader as the RPM come up, very annoying by 2500.
Sailor, thanks for the reply. I was hoping to get the likes of you, vantaam, 68FB, etc. in on this.

Yes that is the tensioner I replaced. It made a small but insignificant difference to the sound.

When I cleaned the noids I did not have a high PSI air supply like I do now. I haven't received ANY VANOS related codes however since the cleaning and the motor has run very, very well. I'm curious why you believe it may be the VANOS units. Do you believe they aren't supplying enough pressure to properly control the timing of the cams? Wouldn't that throw a code? I did just place an order for guides and VANOS rebuilds including the spring plates so I might as well let the noids soak for a while.

I'll be pulling the pan soon. I need to run by Autozone and dump my cans to make room for emptying the oil and likely coolant too. I'm assuming I'll find guide pieces, but I'm hopeful the oil pump and filters will be ok.

Also the noise IS very annoying off idle up to 2500-3500 where it is drowned out by other motor noise. In the vidoes I posted some revs are up to 3000. It can be heard from both inside and outside the car but appears to be tightly tied to RPM and is consistent. I had another shop foreman at a reputable BMW shop listen to it and he thought lifters...

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post #16 of 31 Old 22nd April 2017, 02:43 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Rontgen View Post
I've done that! Haha Just make sure to start the mower in the garage and let it run for a couple minutes so it kinda smells like you actually mowed.
lol good call! That and I'll throw the shoes in a pile of clippings for a few hours.

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post #17 of 31 Old 22nd April 2017, 04:22 AM
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I will give you two usual's because I did not really hear it in the motor, but I suck at videos. Rear exhaust mounts under the back seat. If orange likely noise maker for the cab if black then they are updated. Oil filter mounts same make more noise in the cab as the rpm rises. Rod bearings are fairly obvious they are loud outside and you get the sudden urge to shut the motor off now.

As far as the vanos noise goes at startup, it is very simple and the accum makes up for this fault but the fault is still the same. When you shut the motor off the noids close this should trap pressure around the Vanos piston. The noise is the vanos piston slapping the cover plate. If the noids leak then the oil leaks out allowing the slapping. I am not talking about holding a lot of pressure just keeping oil in around the piston.
You can tell how leaky by starting the engine warm in timed intervals after shutdown. 5 min no noise 20 min noisy 30 min very noisy. The closer to 5 min you get noise the worse they leak. They should not make noise except for a little rattle after sitting a day or so. If my car sits 3 days I get rattle on startup and it is a 2000.

Some noids just leak from wear but if they are still pretty good then you live with it.

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post #18 of 31 Old 22nd April 2017, 09:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PutterMcGavin View Post
The only other thing I could think of would be that timing is really thrown by the VANOS plate on Bank 1 (rotated a few degrees clockwise?) that has tensioned the outer part of the chain and allowed for slack on the medial side. Honestly I don't even know if that is possible but that is the only other thing beside the guides I can think of...
FYI the people currently installing a second hand motor for me have replaced the timing chain and reported the old one appears to be significantly stretched, to the extent that the tensioner couldn't take up all the slack - apparently they've taken a photo of the difference between the old and new chain, but I've not got it yet to post up.
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post #19 of 31 Old 22nd April 2017, 11:23 PM
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Better guides than crankshaft, no?

Guides are just time (and timing) - if you take a week and do some every day it's not too bad, I would imagine. I take that approach now on anything with my E60 M5. It just seems to make it easier to work through the unexpected roadblocks that keep coming up in a DIY on that car.
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post #20 of 31 Old 23rd April 2017, 02:50 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sailor24 View Post
I will give you two usual's because I did not really hear it in the motor, but I suck at videos. Rear exhaust mounts under the back seat. If orange likely noise maker for the cab if black then they are updated. Oil filter mounts same make more noise in the cab as the rpm rises. Rod bearings are fairly obvious they are loud outside and you get the sudden urge to shut the motor off now.

As far as the vanos noise goes at startup, it is very simple and the accum makes up for this fault but the fault is still the same. When you shut the motor off the noids close this should trap pressure around the Vanos piston. The noise is the vanos piston slapping the cover plate. If the noids leak then the oil leaks out allowing the slapping. I am not talking about holding a lot of pressure just keeping oil in around the piston.
You can tell how leaky by starting the engine warm in timed intervals after shutdown. 5 min no noise 20 min noisy 30 min very noisy. The closer to 5 min you get noise the worse they leak. They should not make noise except for a little rattle after sitting a day or so. If my car sits 3 days I get rattle on startup and it is a 2000.

Some noids just leak from wear but if they are still pretty good then you live with it.
Rear exhaust mounts are brand new. I replaced them about a month ago when I had the exhaust down to do Bank 1 manifold gaskets and driveshaft rebuild. Oil filter mounts are new as well and the sound doesn't emanate from either. The sound is quite loud anywhere above 1000rpms but most who hear it lean towards lifter. I'm curious if how the chain is slapping it is 'echoing' all around is mimicking something else.

I'll definitely soak and rebuild what I can in the VANOS when I pull it soon. It very well could be that but the "grooves" left by the chain on the Bank 2 cover show the chain is definitely making solid contact; and from the looks of it quite severe.

Quote:
Originally Posted by putty_thing View Post
FYI the people currently installing a second hand motor for me have replaced the timing chain and reported the old one appears to be significantly stretched, to the extent that the tensioner couldn't take up all the slack - apparently they've taken a photo of the difference between the old and new chain, but I've not got it yet to post up.
Ouch that is no good but glad they caught it! I'm replacing the main, 2 cam chains and oil pump chain tool Might as well while I'm in there.

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Originally Posted by gmak View Post
Better guides than crankshaft, no?

Guides are just time (and timing) - if you take a week and do some every day it's not too bad, I would imagine. I take that approach now on anything with my E60 M5. It just seems to make it easier to work through the unexpected roadblocks that keep coming up in a DIY on that car.
Yes definitely better guides than crankshaft! AI'm throwing around the idea of doing the rod bearings too since the car is at 148k. I kind of might as well since I'm in there and will be pulling the lower pan and oil pump already. I'd rather be safe than sorry and ensure I'm pulling any contaminants I can.

I wish I had the ability to do it all in one go but it likely will be an hour here, and hour there. I do agree sometimes that is a good way to do it and just break it out in chunks. I can prepare and research individual steps and hopefully not hit too many snags...

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Last edited by PutterMcGavin; 23rd April 2017 at 02:52 AM.
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