DIY: Vanos Solenoid Repair - Page 16 - BMW M5 Forum and M6 Forums
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post #151 of 179 Old 1st March 2016, 05:14 PM
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Originally Posted by gzig5 View Post
I have access to a Huntron Tracker. Send one to me and I'll see what the machine thinks it is. I don't know if I have an original one not in the car at the moment or not.
I have a spare original I can send if you need it.
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post #152 of 179 Old 1st March 2016, 05:19 PM
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Originally Posted by gzig5 View Post
I have access to a Huntron Tracker. Send one to me and I'll see what the machine thinks it is. I don't know if I have an original one not in the car at the moment or not.
gzig5, Didn't you post a while back that the original component looked like an MOV when you tested it on the Huntron?

I took a quick look at a write-up on the Huntron capabilities. Page 27 of the paper below indicates all it does for diode testing is plot current vs. voltage to check for the expected 0A up to the forward-bias voltage and then the knee up as current takes off and voltage stays constant.

That test would be good for confirming the original component is a diode, but wouldn't help much with comparing the newly-discovered MELF diode with the original, would it?

https://www.smtnet.com/library/files...te%20paper.pdf

Malcolm

Last edited by 68FB; 1st March 2016 at 05:19 PM.
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post #153 of 179 Old 1st March 2016, 09:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Sailor24 View Post
I might come across as I am giving you a hard time, but I am not. The first thing I did was decide you were correct and looked to see if there was a diode that looked like what we have on the board. I am pretty sure that 1000V diode I found is the diode used. It has to do with the 370v you measure coming off of other devices.
There seems to be volt ranges and they go from 200 straight to 1000V, there are a few at 500 but they cost 3x as much.
I have also noticed the lack of replies, so I have replied in other threads. I am pretty sure they have all read what you have to say, so I am being a little more confrontational to get other replies. That does not seem to be working either?
It might be they know something basic that refutes what you say, it might be that this conversation has gone on way to long? I have a suggestion though, you got along great with the elec eng that piped in, send him mail and ask for this opinion. If you don't want to I will. Last time we hit him with everything, and he said although it was not his choice he thought it likely it was a MOV.
I suggested you read more on multi layer MOVs, you said to technically to read, but I know way less than you and on my 900th read I learned something, granted I had to read a thousand web pages to gain the info.
Sorry I have to go to my stupid way of thinking about elec which is water flow. When I owned my loud speaker company I paid a elec eng a huge salary. He was very smart and always put things in a way "I" could understand which was water flow. A diode is a drain and will drain a certain about of water, if you add more water than it can take it does not get hotter, it only deals with what it can drain. It gets hot because of what it can drain and extra is ignored, if there is something in parallel where the overflow can flow it sends te power there. . In this case it is a 4 ohm resisted noid.
Here is what I learned from your link. A greatly discharged battery has a much higher resistance, does not appear to be 4 ohms but might be. The only reference made is it doubles at 50% discharged. I am using or used a 6V battery that might be 4Cs. I don't know for sure. If they/it has a 4 ohm resistance then that equals the resistance of the noid. Might have this backwards but than should make the load on the diode/drain less. I don't know but I am mad. Between the de-valued CAN $ and some idiot shipping UPS instead of what I asked USPS, I am in for $100, and I am yet to receive the standard UPS brokerage charge of $40.
I appreciate what you have said, the work you have done, but it is not enough to dismiss the conversations that have been had in the past. A lot of what you are claiming has been talked about.

At least five different threads have many posts about this device flowing electricity both ways, but only in reference that the noids open; no matter the polarity. Fair; it is hard to tell if the noids are in the parallel circuit or are disconnected.

You need to speak more freely with all the details about what you did; I can see some might ot want to reply in fear you maybe insulted.

You need to start a thread on this and reference other threads we have talked about this. There are things we al have accepted as the truth that your idea goes against. You are calling a lot liars with no explainations, at least the one we have excepted as true
sailor, I'm not calling anyone a lair, just suggesting they are wrong. And I would welcome any experts chiming in to explain how I am out to lunch on this.

This has been a bit of technical fun for me, not something I care deeply about. If I need a new diode in the future, I'll just get one from Dr VANOS so I don't have to worry about specs, or even if it is actually a diode.

Malcolm
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post #154 of 179 Old 1st March 2016, 09:42 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 68FB View Post
gzig5, Didn't you post a while back that the original component looked like an MOV when you tested it on the Huntron?

I took a quick look at a write-up on the Huntron capabilities. Page 27 of the paper below indicates all it does for diode testing is plot current vs. voltage to check for the expected 0A up to the forward-bias voltage and then the knee up as current takes off and voltage stays constant.

That test would be good for confirming the original component is a diode, but wouldn't help much with comparing the newly-discovered MELF diode with the original, would it?

https://www.smtnet.com/library/files...te%20paper.pdf

Malcolm
I did think it looked like an MOV, but I've slept since then so I'm not positive anymore and don't recall where the post was. An MOV should give a very different trace on the Tracker than a diode. It may not give you the spec, but should tell you what it is. I think I have a partial board in the garage and if I do I'll test it.

Since I've repaired all my solenoids (knock on wood) I've not followed the subject nearly as closely as a couple years ago and the info that was on the tip of my tongue has slipped away and needs to be revisited.

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post #155 of 179 Old 1st March 2016, 10:10 PM
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Sailor the diode you posted a few weeks back is a Zener which is kind of like a MOV. It is an asymmetrical diode. It acts like a normal diode in the forward direction and like a diode-variant in the reverse bias direction, meaning it won't conduct current until a breakthrough voltage is reached, called the Zener voltage, then it conducts. The size and MELF structure are right but the color bands of white and violet on the board component match a non-Zener power diode.
I am far from being an expert on electrics but I think this circuit is a common and simple flyback circuit as they call it and would not require a Zener. The only need for the diode is to dissipate the back emf of the noid coil when the power is turned off.
The Zener diodes I have noticed are in much more complex circuits like voltage regulators.

Last edited by xrviz; 1st March 2016 at 10:31 PM.
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post #156 of 179 Old 24th April 2018, 05:13 PM
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Well, the exact same problem the OP had killed my beast today. I also had to remove some epoxy to expose the broken off piece of solenoid wire. I also managed to solder a new piece of wire to the broken off bit, but somehow in my case thereís no internal connection from the broken off wire to the coil anymore. Itís completely dead.

So there I am, a new board costs a fortune, single solenoids are nowhere to be found. Extremely p1ssed and royally screwed.....

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post #157 of 179 Old 24th April 2018, 05:45 PM
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Single solenoids can be had either from Dr. Vanos or from Adam(Clemster). Don't know if you can purchase new ones, so I would make sure to activate and clean before you install.
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post #158 of 179 Old 24th April 2018, 11:37 PM
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I don't have individual solenoids available but do have several complete good boards ready to go for $450 + shipping and fees. I clean and test all of them before shipping. You can pick up single solenoids from Dr Vanos for around $400 each.

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post #159 of 179 Old 25th April 2018, 04:15 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Essixtytwo View Post
Well, the exact same problem the OP had killed my beast today. I also had to remove some epoxy to expose the broken off piece of solenoid wire. I also managed to solder a new piece of wire to the broken off bit, but somehow in my case thereís no internal connection from the broken off wire to the coil anymore. Itís completely dead.

So there I am, a new board costs a fortune, single solenoids are nowhere to be found. Extremely p1ssed and royally screwed.....
That sux. If it is truly dead, hang onto it. Perhaps when Peter gets around to reverse engineering these, he could use it for a tear down sample.

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post #160 of 179 Old 26th April 2018, 08:14 PM
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Itís totally dead, but Iíll hang on to it.

Adam, I was planning to drop you a mail but Iíve been lucky and found a single solenoid for sale locally. Itís in the mail and hopefully here before the weekend.

gzig5, like you mentioned in your post, Iím positive the leads can break off on the solenoids the way they do because they can move around too much. Mine is an early car as well (1998) so it doesnít have the grub screws on the cover. I believe fitting the newer covers avoid this from happening (atleast I havenít heard of solenoid wires braking off on newer models).

Canít wait to get her on the road again!

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