Secondary Air System Carbon Build Up Removal Pictures - Page 3 - BMW M5 Forum and M6 Forums
E39 M5 and E52 Z8 Discussion 1998-2003 Advertiser's Forum

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post #21 of 327 Old 11th November 2008, 05:47 PM
Neil.D
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Would a regular chamber cleaning additive help with this problem?

2000 M5 Titanium silver

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post #22 of 327 Old 11th November 2008, 06:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Envisage0 View Post
It's a con isn't it?

It's like covering your eyes and believing what's in front of you doesn't exist..
The point of the Powerchip "fix" is that the secondary air system is only active during a cold start to reduce cold start emissions. This is something that typically lasts 20 seconds to maybe 60 seconds depending on how cold the start is. If the secondary air passages are blocked, you get a code thrown that triggers the SES light. This prevents one from getting an inspection.

Hence it is up to you. You can spend $8000 and have the heads removed and the secondary air passages cleaned out, OR you can pay Powerchip for a programmed chip that ignores the secondary air issue (oh, and you might have slightly higher emissions for 20-30 seconds on a cold start). There is NO performance issue tied to this problem.

The only con here is the design by BMW in the first place.

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Last edited by CSBM5; 11th November 2008 at 06:14 PM.
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post #23 of 327 Old 11th November 2008, 06:14 PM
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Awesome pictures and info, Mert.

But, I doubt the cylinder carbon build up is "caused by the secondary air system." It appears that the owner was just not running the car hard enough ... AT ALL. I have seen other non-BMW engines that were similarly "abused," to my way of thinking, without any secondary air system involved, and they were every bit as bad. Some were worse, if you can believe it. Carbon is one MEAN molecule ... well, except when it morfs into diamonds.

Thanks again. The pictures tell a much better story than just text, at least for me. (I'm "A picture is worth a thousand words" kinda guy.)

"The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance; it is the illusion of knowledge."

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post #24 of 327 Old 11th November 2008, 06:17 PM
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Originally Posted by jclyman View Post
But, I doubt the cylinder carbon build up is "caused by the secondary air system." It appears that the owner was just not running the car hard enough ... AT ALL. I have seen other non-BMW engines that were similarly "abused," to my way of thinking, without any secondary air system involved, and they were every bit as bad. Some were worse, if you can believe it. Carbon is one MEAN molecule ... well, except when it morfs into diamonds.
Exactly. Perhaps that's not obvious to others though that are seeing this thread. All the more reason to only use top tier gas and also use Techron on a regular basis in additon to NOT driving an S62 like a donkey cart. This engine is made to run and run hard.

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post #25 of 327 Old 11th November 2008, 06:25 PM
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Originally Posted by SoCaLE39 View Post
What is the mileage on this motor?
would like to know this as well, the block I tore down had 70k and was bad but not that bad so I'm guessing 100k+

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post #26 of 327 Old 11th November 2008, 06:36 PM
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regarding the powerchip fix. Keep in mind that powerchip borrowed a line or two of code out of a euro dme, more or less (i'm probably oversimplifying).

I had noticed a few years ago, when we started seeing the carbon build up SES lights in US spec cars, that none of our european members had it. The engines are the same, and i didn't buy that it was just a fuel issue. I emailed powerchip and mentioned this to them, and asked if they could look into a euro dme to see if secondary air flow was actually monitored (with regard to the SES light). It wasn't so, so the "fix" was relatively simple, take some code from a euro dme (which does not check for sec. air flow) and apply it to the US dme.

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post #27 of 327 Old 11th November 2008, 06:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoCaLE39 View Post
I dont understand how you guys can call Powerchip a con. Its a very sensible solution given that the only other option is spending $8k for BMW to clean it out or at least half that with any indy shop. Let's not forget, as stated earlier, this problem could come back.

Looking at this engine, there seems to be more carbon buildup on the pistons than normal compared to other s62 engines I have seen.
It's a con in the context of someone advertising the car as 'carbon build up fixed by powerchip'. That was the point..

It's not 'fixed', it's just ignored.

**** it, let's do it - Australian proverb

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post #28 of 327 Old 11th November 2008, 06:49 PM
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Me either. After just purchasing my beast I am very sad that this can happen. I hope BMW has addressed this problem with the e60 or any other engines they build. I think this is why we have recalls. Wow. If this would have come out when the e39 M5s first were marketed they would have not sold a single one.
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post #29 of 327 Old 11th November 2008, 07:10 PM
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Me either. After just purchasing my beast I am very sad that this can happen. I hope BMW has addressed this problem with the e60 or any other engines they build. I think this is why we have recalls. Wow. If this would have come out when the e39 M5s first were marketed they would have not sold a single one.
recalls are typically for safety related defects. This would probably come under 'normal wear and tear.' I don't think the german engineers really think about lifespan beyond 100k miles. Euro emission laws must not either.

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post #30 of 327 Old 11th November 2008, 07:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Envisage0 View Post
It's a con in the context of someone advertising the car as 'carbon build up fixed by powerchip'. That was the point..

It's not 'fixed', it's just ignored.

Thank You, I post a comment(#12) saying that I hate when people who are selling m5's say " Carbon build-up fixed with power-chip"... Then all of a sudden people started to twist what I was saying.. I NEVER said buying a power-chip as a solution to pass inspection was wrong. I NEVER said it's wrong for Powerchip to lead us into believing that the chip cleans the carbon build-up(because they have never made such claims). I never said any of those things. I simply hate to see any e39 m5 for sale ads (craiglist, ebay, autotrader etc) where the owner claims that the carbon build-up issue is fixed with the powerchip... POWERCHIP DOES NOT CLEAN THE CARBON BUILD-UP... POST#1 DOES. Power-chip is a good solution. NOT THE ANSWER. The price for the answer is expensive, if it were me I would be fine with the solution, However I would never tell someone interested in my car "powerchip fixed the carbon build-up"..

Last edited by TopEnd; 11th November 2008 at 07:37 PM.
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