the Official 2008 Winter Tire Thread .... - BMW M5 Forum and M6 Forums
E39 M5 and E52 Z8 Discussion 1998-2003 Advertiser's Forum

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
post #1 of 31 Old 16th October 2008, 07:04 PM Thread Starter
[email protected]
 
Luke@tirerack's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: South Bend, Indiana
Posts: 364
Thanks: 1
Thanked 40 Times in 23 Posts
the Official 2008 Winter Tire Thread ....

as another winter approaches here we go again ...

So, first off let's learn or relearn the facts about winter tires

How do winter tires work?

here are a few pictures to illustrate the mechanics involved in winter traction.

If you look closely at a road surface you can tell that it is really not that smooth as represented by the model in this picture


with the high grip rubber compound used in your summer performance tires the contact area conforms to the irregular surface of the road.


That amount of contact can generate a tremndous amount of traction in the summer time but, what if the road in snow covered?


That brings us to the question, what makes a tire a good winter tire? The answer is a three part puzzle and without all three parts traction will be compromised.


let's look at the first part of the puzzle; tread design

this picture shows a winter tire tread design which, as you can clearly see, utilizes a large number of sipes



when the road gets snow covered the tire is no longer able to conform to the surface.



the siping allows the tread elements to flex under stress create aggressive "biting edges" when braking, cornering or accelerating




part two of our three piece traction puzzle is tread depth

While deep snow and ice-covered roads are two of the most challenging conditions North American drivers will face, tire developments during the last decade have noticeably advanced wintertime mobility. The technological revolution of dedicated winter tires for drivers in the snowbelt, and the continuing evolution of all-season tires for drivers living on its periphery characteristically offer more grip in snow and on ice than ever before.

However the basics of delivering traction and handling in snow and on ice remain unchanged. Tires must combine three fundamental features to deliver good wintertime performance, including an appropriate tread design, pliable tread compound and sufficient tread depth. If any one of these fundamental features is absent, the other two, regardless of their ability, cannot deliver the desired results! Since engineers can develop cutting-edge tread designs and chemists can develop advanced rubber compounds, it is often the remaining tread depth that is the variable in determining wintertime performance.

In most parts of the world, tires are considered to be legally worn out when they reach 2/32" (approximately 1.6mm) of remaining tread depth. U.S. law requires tires to have easy-to-see Tread Wear Indicator bars running from one side of their tread design to the other when the tire's tread has worn down to the minimum legal limit of 2/32 inch.

However in spite of the legal minimums, Tire Rack recommends that drivers expecting to experience wet conditions consider replacing their tires when they reach 4/32" of remaining tread depth. Tire Rack's tests have shown how shallow treads reduce wet braking traction and increase stopping distances

Tire Rack also recommends that drivers expecting to encounter snow-covered roads consider replacing their tires when they reach approximately 6/32" of remaining tread depth to maintain good mobility. Tires need more tread depth in wintry conditions to compress snow in their grooves and release it as they roll. If there isn't sufficient tread depth, the "bites" of snow that can be processed on each tire revolution will be reduced to "nibbles," and the vehicle's traction and mobility in snow will be reduced.



The third and final part of the puzzle is the rubber compound used. Rubber compounds vary widely from manufacturer to manufacturer but, the task is the same so, you will see similarities between the products. They all typically use compounds which utilize materials designed to remain flexible at cold temps in addition to traction enhancements from silica and other materials which add more bite on ice.

Now, for the next step ... types of winter tires

There are basically three different types of winter tires

#1.) Performance Winter

You want enhanced dry road handling from your winter tires and are willing to trade some snow and ice traction to get it.

Meeting severe snow service requirements and branded with the "Snowflake-on-the-Mountain" symbol, these low profile, H- or V-speed rated tires are designed to suit winter driving on European highways. They are available in many of the low profile sizes used as Original Equipment on sporty imported and domestic cars. Due to their unique designs these tires must be installed in sets of four.

#2.) Studless Ice and Snow

You want to maximize snow and ice traction from your winter tires without the inconvenience of using winter tire studs.

Meeting severe snow service requirements and branded with the "Snowflake-on-the-Mountain" symbol, these Q-speed rated tires feature the latest in tread compound technology to provide winter traction without the inconvenience of tire studs. They trade a little handling for excellent ice and snow traction. Due to their unique tread compounds these tires must be installed in sets of four.

#3.)Studdable Winter

You want the traditional security of studded winter tires for enhanced traction on ice.

Meeting severe snow service requirements and branded with the "Snowflake-on-the-Mountain" symbol, these non-, Q-, S-, or T-speed rated tires feature traditional snow tire tread compounds and studdable tread designs for good snow and ice traction. Due to their unique designs these tires must be used in sets of four. Use of studded tires is often prohibited or restricted. Check with local authorities to confirm legality.

But Do I Really Need Winter Tires?

The primary concern that our customers express is that they don't want to get "stuck" in the snow (or in the ditch) during the winter.

While in cities like Atlantic City, Memphis and Seattle located at the extreme edges of the snow belt, relatively new All-Season tires will probably work just fine. But the odds change as you move further into the snow belt or the All-Season tires have a few years of wear on them. And who wants to gamble...especially when their collision deductible and future insurance premiums are on the table.

We all know that tires are a compromise. One tire can't be the fastest on the track, most controllable in the snow, and longest wearing. The Ultra High Performance tire that grips the track with tread temperatures of 200° is incompetent as its tread compound becomes like "hard plastic" at below 32°. Today's 80,000-mile tires require tread designs and compounds that maximize long, even wear... not winter traction. And while many of today's all-season tires (Original Equipment, touring and performance) address some of these issues, they still emphasize longer wear, a quieter ride or greater performance...not winter traction.

Only winter tires are designed to excel in the colder temperatures, slush, snow and ice that many parts of the country experience for three or more months a year.

It's also important to note that the recent advancements in electronic driver aids, such as ABS and traction control don't provide more traction. They only help prevent drivers from over braking or overpowering the available traction of their tires. The only thing the driver can do to increase traction...to actually get more grip and control... is install better tires.

Considering all of the new and different models and the specific requirements for each of them and all of the additional variables it is nearly impossible to list every wheel and tire combination available so, I am doing things slightly different this year.

As in the past, there are 'general use' recommended packages for each model car to be found at TIRERACK.com but, if you would like to dicuss other options for your specific needs please don't hesitate to give me a call at 800-428-8355 ext. 362 or drop me an e-mail

It doesn't matter if you have a seperate car for winter use or if you run your M5 in the winter you can post in this thread for specific recommendations, which would be my preferred method of communication, that way more people will get the needed information. In your post please supply the following information ....

year:
make:
model:
location:
tires only or winter package:

and I will respond directly to your post

I will also be adding to this thread periodically so, check back often

Luke Pavlick
Performance Specialist
ASE Certified Master Tech
800-428-8355 ext. 362
www.tirerack.com

Don't forget check out my blog at
http://blog.tirerack.com/blog/letters-from-luke
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 31 Old 16th October 2008, 08:10 PM
IRISH M5
m5board.comoholic (>1000 posts)
 
IRISH M5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Ohio, USA
Posts: 1,599
Thanks: 181
Thanked 191 Times in 149 Posts
Luke,

year: 2001
make: BMW
model: E39 540i 6spd
location: Cincinnati/Dayton
tires only: Currently running Front 235/45-17 Rear 255/40-17 tires
IRISH M5 is offline  
post #3 of 31 Old 16th October 2008, 08:16 PM
Redneck M5
Addicted Member (>300 posts)
 
Redneck M5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Always Perfect, Encinitas, CA
Posts: 356
Thanks: 67
Thanked 26 Times in 24 Posts
Garage
Question

year: 1998 (528i) and M5 (2002)
make: BMW
model: 582i with sport package and E39 M5
location: San Diego driving to Mammoth, CA (Eastern Sierras)
tires only or winter package: one set of tires mounted on wheels

I hope I can get one set that is interchangable for both cars depending on which one I want to drive that trip.
Redneck M5 is offline  
 
post #4 of 31 Old 16th October 2008, 09:33 PM Thread Starter
[email protected]
 
Luke@tirerack's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: South Bend, Indiana
Posts: 364
Thanks: 1
Thanked 40 Times in 23 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by IRISH M5 View Post
Luke,

year: 2001
make: BMW
model: E39 540i 6spd
location: Cincinnati/Dayton
tires only: Currently running Front 235/45-17 Rear 255/40-17 tires
given the marched sets of performance winter tires available in the sizes you need the best choice would be the Blizzak LM25

Quote:
The Blizzak LM-25 is Bridgestone's Performance Winter tire developed for the drivers of high performance sports cars, sport coupes and sport sedans that require winter driving traction on dry, wet and snow-covered roads. Blizzak LM-25 winter tires are designed to combine good snow and ice traction with "European" high-speed winter driving performance.

The Blizzak LM-25 winter tire's overall combination of capabilities is made possible by Bridgestone's UNI-T technology that brings advanced tire technologies together. Innovative tire design, construction and tread compound help maximize the tire's performance, ride quality and wear while providing traction in winter.

Blizzak LM-25 winter tires feature a directional tread design with rounded tread shoulders to increase hydroplaning resistance on wet and slush-covered roads while enhancing dry and wet road handling. They use a high silica content winter tread compound to combine winter traction with high-speed durability (the current Multicell tread compounds used on most Blizzak winter tires cannot support H- or V-speed ratings). The Blizzak LM-25 features an independent block tread design that employs the Lamellen "edge effect" with multiple three dimensional ("3D") zigzag sipes specifically placed in the tread blocks to provide the biting edges needed to help grip snow and ice for winter traction

Luke Pavlick
Performance Specialist
ASE Certified Master Tech
800-428-8355 ext. 362
www.tirerack.com

Don't forget check out my blog at
http://blog.tirerack.com/blog/letters-from-luke
The Following User Says Thank You to [email protected] For This Useful Post:
IRISH M5 (20th October 2008)
post #5 of 31 Old 16th October 2008, 09:42 PM Thread Starter
[email protected]
 
Luke@tirerack's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: South Bend, Indiana
Posts: 364
Thanks: 1
Thanked 40 Times in 23 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redneck M5 View Post
year: 1998 (528i) and M5 (2002)
make: BMW
model: 582i with sport package and E39 M5
location: San Diego driving to Mammoth, CA (Eastern Sierras)
tires only or winter package: one set of tires mounted on wheels

I hope I can get one set that is interchangable for both cars depending on which one I want to drive that trip.
17" Rial Salerno wheels fit both cars


with you driving requirements the tire I would recommend would be the Pirelli SottoZero in a 235/45-17 size


Quote:
Winter 240 Sottozero tires are Pirelli's "dual-season" Performance Winter tires that were developed to be effective as temperatures approach freezing and below from mid-autumn until early spring by offering hot performance compared to summer tires when driven on dry, wet or icy cold surfaces. Winter Sottozero tires are for the drivers of high performance sport cars, coupes and sedans who don't let their enthusiasm for driving cool off in winter.

The Winter Sottozero tread compound utilizes cap and base technology that combines two different compounds. The upper strata (cap) that comes into contact with the road surface uses Pirelli's latest generation silanes to bind the silica and polymer to provide greater stability during hard driving in both wet and dry conditions. The sub-strata in contact with the casing (base) uses nano-composites (aluminum silicates) dispersed throughout the polymer to provide the stiffness that enhances stability and driving precision. The tread compound is molded into an asymmetric tread pattern divided into distinct inner and outer elements to blend traction in light snow and on ice with drivability on dry and wet roads. On the inside, they utilize Pirelli's ultra high performance tire structures to offer levels of performance not normally associated with winter tires.

Luke Pavlick
Performance Specialist
ASE Certified Master Tech
800-428-8355 ext. 362
www.tirerack.com

Don't forget check out my blog at
http://blog.tirerack.com/blog/letters-from-luke
post #6 of 31 Old 16th October 2008, 09:43 PM Thread Starter
[email protected]
 
Luke@tirerack's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: South Bend, Indiana
Posts: 364
Thanks: 1
Thanked 40 Times in 23 Posts
do you really need winter tires? check out ths video before you decide

Luke Pavlick
Performance Specialist
ASE Certified Master Tech
800-428-8355 ext. 362
www.tirerack.com

Don't forget check out my blog at
http://blog.tirerack.com/blog/letters-from-luke
post #7 of 31 Old 17th October 2008, 03:08 PM
road_runner2
Member, Sport: On DSC: Off
 
road_runner2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Glenview, IL
Posts: 261
Thanks: 60
Thanked 14 Times in 13 Posts
What's a good winter wheel+tire choice with Brembo BBK at all four corners?

I don't believe the 17" set I bought last year will fit any longer.

Thanks!

_____________________________
2002 M5 - Gave up it's life to save mine
road_runner2 is offline  
post #8 of 31 Old 17th October 2008, 03:43 PM
mjbrokaw
Junior Member, warming up (<31 posts)
 
mjbrokaw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 7
Thanks: 1
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Perfect

Luke,

It has been on my to-do list for a while to determine what kind of tires I should get for the winter.

year:2000
make:BMW
model:M5
location:Western Connecticut
tires only or winter package: Both? I am on the fence, what would your recommendations be both ways?

Regarding location, its probably worth noting that I do have a truck to drive when the weather gets real harry but I also travel to central vermont and central Maine for work.

Thanks for the help,

Mike

MJB

2000 M5-All season
2003 Honda S2000-Summer-Wet
2000 BMW k1200lt -Summer-Dry
mjbrokaw is offline  
post #9 of 31 Old 17th October 2008, 04:14 PM
jlusby
Member, Sport: On DSC: On (>100 posts)
 
jlusby's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Loveland, OH
Posts: 179
Thanks: 26
Thanked 67 Times in 19 Posts
Garage
Luke,

I have been looking at the Bridgestone Blizzak WS-60 235/45-17 and an appropriate rim, but the rim I liked, Elbrus 102, keeps having its estimated delivery date pushed out. Can you give me any insight as to what the issue is and whether you are going to get these rims in this winter. I live in OH and really don't want to wait much longer for snow tires, so if that rim isn't going to be available by the current estimated date (11/14/08), then I need to change my thoughts.

BTW, haven't had these tires yet, but drove my M3 with Blizzaks for years and these are the best snow tires I have ever used. Sacrifice a little handling, but its winter and would rather drive more safely than take a chance a hit a patch of black ice. Save the run driving for warmer weather

Thanks,
jlusby is offline  
post #10 of 31 Old 20th October 2008, 02:20 PM Thread Starter
[email protected]
 
Luke@tirerack's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: South Bend, Indiana
Posts: 364
Thanks: 1
Thanked 40 Times in 23 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by road_runner2 View Post
What's a good winter wheel+tire choice with Brembo BBK at all four corners?

I don't believe the 17" set I bought last year will fit any longer.

Thanks!
actually if you have the 355 rotor diameter there is 1 17" wheel which clears so, you could reuse the tires from last year.
the Rial Salerno


Luke Pavlick
Performance Specialist
ASE Certified Master Tech
800-428-8355 ext. 362
www.tirerack.com

Don't forget check out my blog at
http://blog.tirerack.com/blog/letters-from-luke

Last edited by [email protected]; 20th October 2008 at 05:12 PM.
Reply

Bookmarks

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the BMW M5 Forum and M6 Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in











Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Linear Mode Linear Mode
Rate This Thread:



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
The Official Winter Tire thread ... all E39 based winter tire questions go here ... Luke_tirerack M5 E39 Group Buy Forum and Sponsor Discussion and Offerings 80 24th November 2014 03:37 PM
ok ... here's the official Winter Tire thread ... [email protected] M5 E60 Group Buy Forum and Sponsor Discussion and Offerings 53 17th September 2013 10:38 PM
the Official 2008 Winter Tire Thread .... [email protected] E60 M5 and E61 M5 Touring Discussion 44 10th December 2008 02:54 PM
The Official Winter Tire thread ... all E60 based winter tire questions go here ... Luke_tirerack M5 E60 Group Buy Forum and Sponsor Discussion and Offerings 58 15th January 2008 10:12 PM
ok ... here's the official Winter Tire thread ... [email protected] M5 E39 Group Buy Forum and Sponsor Discussion and Offerings 24 30th November 2006 02:36 PM

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome