Best Launching technique.. - BMW M5 Forum and M6 Forums
E39 M5 and E52 Z8 Discussion 1998-2003 Advertiser's Forum

 2Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
post #1 of 36 Old 15th August 2008, 10:16 AM Thread Starter
OC e39r
m5board.comoholic (>1000 posts)
 
OC e39r's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: California
Posts: 1,452
Thanks: 133
Thanked 138 Times in 117 Posts
Best Launching technique..

I wanna know what is your best technique for aggressive-moderate launching without hurting the clutch? DCS and SPORTS on-off?. I tried the way I know but it jerks hard sometimes ( the clutch is not fully engaged...
Looking forward to getting the best input from the fellows here

Running strong

Hüper Optik 40%
E60 545 shifter - removed
E53 X5 front control arm bushings
E9x radio knobs
E46 m3 alcantara steering wheel
Eibach rear sway bar
Koni yellows
CNS 10.5 clutch disc with a lightened dual mass flywheel - removed
Carbotech 1521 pads
StopTech SS brakes lines
Centric high carbon rotors
Intravee II,Alpine KCA420i - removed
Cupholders delete
TEC cupholder
Pre facelift headlights retrofit
OC e39r is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 36 Old 15th August 2008, 10:37 AM
Stamper1
Member, Sport: On DSC: Off
 
Stamper1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: South Africa
Posts: 210
Thanks: 8
Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts
Stamper1 is offline  
post #3 of 36 Old 15th August 2008, 01:50 PM
CSBM5
M5 Expert (>4000)
 
CSBM5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Raleigh, NC
Age: 60
Posts: 7,464
Thanks: 1,641
Thanked 1,505 Times in 1,029 Posts
Your goal is to balance (in a very quick fashion) clutch engagement versus power supplied. That balance occurs during the initial engagement that creates the weight transfer to the rear. As the weight shifts to the rear you can quickly get the process done and be rocketing out of the hole with a hooked up clutch and hooked up tires. The devil is in the details of this of course.

DSC has to be off of course or you can't even come close to a strong launch. Hence the reason you are only doing this on a closed course (autocross, dragstip) or your own property.

If you don't have previous experience with maximum launching of a RWD car, it would be ideal to practice such on a different car since the M5's clutch does not care much for a ham-fisted driver burning a few hundred HP through it when it isn't fully hooked up.

There are two big variables on traction during the launch. The first one is that initial weight transfer you create before you go for the whole launch. It's a very quick process, but it is critical to getting the most out of the rear tire's abilities. Mastering it just right will greatly increase "launchability". Take a look at the start here in this video of me driving at a BMW club autocross at the Performance Center. It's the only in-car video I have of a launch. Note the very small elapsed time between my initial engagement (the car lifting up), and then clutch hooked up and full power (almost) out of the hole with just a bit of wheelspin. This particular launch above is a perfect segue into the second and biggest variable: tire traction.

The above was done on R-comp tires in warm weather, so traction was superb. However, depending on the number of heat cycles your tires have done, the ambient temperature and the tire type, your launch parameters (starting rpm, rate of engagement and power application) will vary (perhaps dramatically for well heat cycled tires on cold pavement!). Not much more to be said here except brand new tires (after you have worn off the mold release compound) with few heat cycles will always have a ton more grip than well heat cycled tires. This last fact is what always makes me chuckle when I see a review of how great some new tire brand is compared to someone's old tires they just finished using up.

Some specifics to try... If the ambient temperature is reasonable and you have relatively fresh tires, shoot for a starting rpm between about 1800 to 2200 rpm. Use the throttle to balance the clutch engagement during that brief initial weight transfer period, and once you get weight starting to shift fully to the rear, use a LOT more clutch engagement coupled with more throttle. If you do this just right, you won't overdrive the rear tires but instead will be able to manage tire hook-up with the throttle while the clutch is fully out. On a hot track with R-comps, you can aggressively get into the throttle without too much wheelspin worry (as in video), but on street tires you have to be much more judicious with the throttle. As ambient temperatures fall below 60F, you have to be “exponentially” more careful, seriously.

The key to grip on launch is to NOT overdrive the rear tires. Once you loose that sweet spot of about 10-15% slip at the tire's contact patch, you'll have to really get out of the throttle to regain grip and the launch is blown. Practice feeling that weight transfer, developing the feel for how you can progressively (but very quickly) get the clutch engaged and the power down. A perfect launch will not be a wild, smoking mess (which the M5 is easily capable of doing), but will result in a brief small amount of wheel spin (maybe 1 to 2 car lengths on relatively fresh, high quality street tires) and a totally hooked feeling from behind the wheel.

Start small and work your way up. Work on clutch engagement. Get the feel for throttle response. Etc.. If you ever mess up and start putting too much power through the clutch before you have it hooked up, GET OUT OF THE THROTTLE IMMEDIATELY. Let the clutch cool and try again later. By the way, if you are trying multiple launches within a short period of time, you'll find that the clutch engagement capabilities will vary as its temperature rises, so give it some time to cool off.

That's all I can think of at the moment other than you're of course doing all of this at an autocross, the track or on your own property. At the strip, you'll have the additional variable of how the launch area is prepared which can make a HUGE difference in traction and how you manage this whole process.

Current stable:

2019 M2 Competition 6MT LBB, slicktop
2011.5 M3 sedan 6MT Silverstone, slicktop: Dinan front swaybar, Eibach rear swaybar, pins-out-max-camber-up-front, Dinan exhaust, Michelin PS4S, Apex EC-7 9.5/10.5x19
2007 328i wagon Silver/gray: Eibach 28mm front swaybar, E93 M3 rear swaybar, 219M M3 wheels, Michelin PSAS3+
1975 CanAm 125MX2: Stock, original owner

Last edited by CSBM5; 15th August 2008 at 01:57 PM.
CSBM5 is offline  
The Following 25 Users Say Thank You to CSBM5 For This Useful Post:
AFC1 (4th June 2009), AGM5 (26th June 2013), BKH (16th August 2008), BuzzedHornet (16th August 2008), chowdah (15th August 2008), cknaak (3rd June 2009), dave_gt (20th August 2008), elmar (20th August 2008), exigtis4m5(?) (16th August 2008), FlyBMW (5th June 2009), gherardini (15th August 2008), gsfent (15th August 2008), Hawkwind (15th August 2008), IRISH M5 (16th August 2008), I_ski123 (15th August 2008), jb1219 (17th August 2008), JBss (16th August 2008), john535 (29th June 2013), Laidback (20th August 2008), Mike S. (16th August 2008), Pika101 (5th June 2009), seoultrain (29th June 2013), SSense (17th August 2008), Super-saloon (20th August 2008), whatheheck (20th August 2008)
 
post #4 of 36 Old 15th August 2008, 02:25 PM
HFactor
Member, Sport: Off DSC: On (>50 posts)
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Manhattan, NY
Posts: 93
Thanks: 8
Thanked 4 Times in 3 Posts
agree

M5 clutch is "pretty weak" (we all have our opinions), so getting complete link as quickly as possible is priority #1, then pour on the power w/o burning rubber is priority #2.
HFactor is offline  
post #5 of 36 Old 15th August 2008, 02:41 PM
gsfent
M5 Expert (>4000)
 
gsfent's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: west palm beach. fl.
Posts: 12,749
Thanks: 2,306
Thanked 1,619 Times in 1,227 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by CSBM5 View Post
Your goal is to balance (in a very quick fashion) clutch engagement versus power supplied. That balance occurs during the initial engagement that creates the weight transfer to the rear. As the weight shifts to the rear you can quickly get the process done and be rocketing out of the hole with a hooked up clutch and hooked up tires. The devil is in the details of this of course.

DSC has to be off of course or you can't even come close to a strong launch. Hence the reason you are only doing this on a closed course (autocross, dragstip) or your own property.

If you don't have previous experience with maximum launching of a RWD car, it would be ideal to practice such on a different car since the M5's clutch does not care much for a ham-fisted driver burning a few hundred HP through it when it isn't fully hooked up.

There are two big variables on traction during the launch. The first one is that initial weight transfer you create before you go for the whole launch. It's a very quick process, but it is critical to getting the most out of the rear tire's abilities. Mastering it just right will greatly increase "launchability". Take a look at the start here in this video of me driving at a BMW club autocross at the Performance Center. It's the only in-car video I have of a launch. Note the very small elapsed time between my initial engagement (the car lifting up), and then clutch hooked up and full power (almost) out of the hole with just a bit of wheelspin. This particular launch above is a perfect segue into the second and biggest variable: tire traction.

The above was done on R-comp tires in warm weather, so traction was superb. However, depending on the number of heat cycles your tires have done, the ambient temperature and the tire type, your launch parameters (starting rpm, rate of engagement and power application) will vary (perhaps dramatically for well heat cycled tires on cold pavement!). Not much more to be said here except brand new tires (after you have worn off the mold release compound) with few heat cycles will always have a ton more grip than well heat cycled tires. This last fact is what always makes me chuckle when I see a review of how great some new tire brand is compared to someone's old tires they just finished using up.

Some specifics to try... If the ambient temperature is reasonable and you have relatively fresh tires, shoot for a starting rpm between about 1800 to 2200 rpm. Use the throttle to balance the clutch engagement during that brief initial weight transfer period, and once you get weight starting to shift fully to the rear, use a LOT more clutch engagement coupled with more throttle. If you do this just right, you won't overdrive the rear tires but instead will be able to manage tire hook-up with the throttle while the clutch is fully out. On a hot track with R-comps, you can aggressively get into the throttle without too much wheelspin worry (as in video), but on street tires you have to be much more judicious with the throttle. As ambient temperatures fall below 60F, you have to be “exponentially” more careful, seriously.

The key to grip on launch is to NOT overdrive the rear tires. Once you loose that sweet spot of about 10-15% slip at the tire's contact patch, you'll have to really get out of the throttle to regain grip and the launch is blown. Practice feeling that weight transfer, developing the feel for how you can progressively (but very quickly) get the clutch engaged and the power down. A perfect launch will not be a wild, smoking mess (which the M5 is easily capable of doing), but will result in a brief small amount of wheel spin (maybe 1 to 2 car lengths on relatively fresh, high quality street tires) and a totally hooked feeling from behind the wheel.

Start small and work your way up. Work on clutch engagement. Get the feel for throttle response. Etc.. If you ever mess up and start putting too much power through the clutch before you have it hooked up, GET OUT OF THE THROTTLE IMMEDIATELY. Let the clutch cool and try again later. By the way, if you are trying multiple launches within a short period of time, you'll find that the clutch engagement capabilities will vary as its temperature rises, so give it some time to cool off.

That's all I can think of at the moment other than you're of course doing all of this at an autocross, the track or on your own property. At the strip, you'll have the additional variable of how the launch area is prepared which can make a HUGE difference in traction and how you manage this whole process.
As good a tutorial as I have seen! Mods, consideration as a sticky?
Regards,
Jerry

'01 Black/caramel
Dinan Stage 3 suspension, SS jet coated headers, ESS SC kit w/ 1 range colder NGK's, 92mm pulley, 440 Big Greens, TTFS alpha N tune for meth, RK plenum plates, SBC Endurance Stage 3 Kevlar performance clutch setup, "Jed" lightened DMFW, open brake ducts, TEC cupholder, U.S.(Euro style) tilt/slide armrest, 6k HID fogs, Umnitza bi-xenon flamethrowers w/6k super white low beams, rear fogs, V1/Stealth1, dual head LI, 2.65 diff w/40% lockup/2x dynamic, compact spare, M5 logo trunk carpet, Euro trailer hitch, Mocal oil cooler, ACS type rear spoiler, Rogue custom SSK and tranny mounts, ST 355 BBK (fronts), BP sway bar brackets, Bluetooth retrofit, Speedhut boost gauge (20 psi), Dinan TB's and VS, KB BAP, Howerton/HFS-3 Aquamist WI trunk setup (50/50), with 2nd gauge in rear view mirror, aftermarket trunk mounted sound system integrated into stock unit (amps, crossovers, sub and speakers).......
gsfent is online now  
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to gsfent For This Useful Post:
CSBM5 (13th December 2008), OC e39r (15th August 2008)
post #6 of 36 Old 15th August 2008, 02:48 PM
rneedham1979
Banned
 
rneedham1979's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Norfolk virginia
Posts: 2,164
Thanks: 219
Thanked 158 Times in 114 Posts
It takes time to perfect. find a streth of road and work it. becarful not to apply to much throttle and try not to overheat the clutch. basically do a few launchs then drive a while to let the clutch cool then try somemore.

What you what to do is get the weight to trnsferto the rear tires and moving before you mash the gas.

IMHO if you do not have expeirence buy a set of drag radials. I actually have a set for sale... but when installed on my S2 i would get 0 wheel spin on a launch. It is so nice to pull from a dead stop every single time. they last about 15k as long as your not doing smokey burn outs....

I think everyone here should invest in a set of Dr's, great for the summer!

Ryan
rneedham1979 is offline  
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to rneedham1979 For This Useful Post:
jimmythefish (16th August 2008), OC e39r (15th August 2008)
post #7 of 36 Old 15th August 2008, 09:07 PM
wxl1988
Member, P500 Sport, DSC On (>700)
 
wxl1988's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: USA
Posts: 735
Thanks: 36
Thanked 85 Times in 54 Posts
Would anyone recommend power shifting? What damage will it do besides give the clutch a hard time?
wxl1988 is offline  
post #8 of 36 Old 15th August 2008, 09:09 PM Thread Starter
OC e39r
m5board.comoholic (>1000 posts)
 
OC e39r's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: California
Posts: 1,452
Thanks: 133
Thanked 138 Times in 117 Posts
So to sum it all up, besides all the variables ( road condition, tires, temperature, clutch condition..etc
1- DSC OFF
2- RPM between 1800-2200
3- To release the clutch in two stages:
3a transferring the load to the rear tires,THE SENSITIVE STAGE
3b fully engaging the clutch,with balancing press on the throttle,THE FAST STAGE.Noticing that the clutch pedal SHOULD be fully released BEFORE full throttle.
4- Shifting to 2nd on 6000 RPM-1ST TO ITS PEAK-the way explained in 3b
5- Practice, practice and practice...

Now whats peeling? clutch pumping?. Is there anymore terms pros use regarding this matter?

Also I found this link,but it seems to be not working,anybody has similar vids for the footwork?. Welcome to Virtual M5 Driving School!

Regards,

Running strong

Hüper Optik 40%
E60 545 shifter - removed
E53 X5 front control arm bushings
E9x radio knobs
E46 m3 alcantara steering wheel
Eibach rear sway bar
Koni yellows
CNS 10.5 clutch disc with a lightened dual mass flywheel - removed
Carbotech 1521 pads
StopTech SS brakes lines
Centric high carbon rotors
Intravee II,Alpine KCA420i - removed
Cupholders delete
TEC cupholder
Pre facelift headlights retrofit

Last edited by OC e39r; 15th August 2008 at 09:27 PM.
OC e39r is offline  
post #9 of 36 Old 15th August 2008, 09:18 PM
CSBM5
M5 Expert (>4000)
 
CSBM5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Raleigh, NC
Age: 60
Posts: 7,464
Thanks: 1,641
Thanked 1,505 Times in 1,029 Posts
I don't understand your #3 about shifting to 2nd. If you're going for all-out acceleration, you rev 1st right to its peak.

On another note, for newbies to the M5, the tach needle is damped, and it will not keep up with the engine rpm rate of change in 1st gear. Hence you have to shift somewhere around 6k rpm or so to prevent hitting the rev limiter. In 2nd gear and higher the rate of change of rpm is slower, so this isn't an issue.

Chuck

Current stable:

2019 M2 Competition 6MT LBB, slicktop
2011.5 M3 sedan 6MT Silverstone, slicktop: Dinan front swaybar, Eibach rear swaybar, pins-out-max-camber-up-front, Dinan exhaust, Michelin PS4S, Apex EC-7 9.5/10.5x19
2007 328i wagon Silver/gray: Eibach 28mm front swaybar, E93 M3 rear swaybar, 219M M3 wheels, Michelin PSAS3+
1975 CanAm 125MX2: Stock, original owner
CSBM5 is offline  
post #10 of 36 Old 15th August 2008, 09:24 PM Thread Starter
OC e39r
m5board.comoholic (>1000 posts)
 
OC e39r's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: California
Posts: 1,452
Thanks: 133
Thanked 138 Times in 117 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by CSBM5 View Post
I don't understand your #3 about shifting to 2nd. If you're going for all-out acceleration, you rev 1st right to its peak.

On another note, for newbies to the M5, the tach needle is damped, and it will not keep up with the engine rpm rate of change in 1st gear. Hence you have to shift somewhere around 6k rpm or so to prevent hitting the rev limiter. In 2nd gear and higher the rate of change of rpm is slower, so this isn't an issue.

Chuck
I thought this is the optimum RPM to shift into 2nd and avoid the jerking I used to get. I stand corrected,and will edit it..

Running strong

Hüper Optik 40%
E60 545 shifter - removed
E53 X5 front control arm bushings
E9x radio knobs
E46 m3 alcantara steering wheel
Eibach rear sway bar
Koni yellows
CNS 10.5 clutch disc with a lightened dual mass flywheel - removed
Carbotech 1521 pads
StopTech SS brakes lines
Centric high carbon rotors
Intravee II,Alpine KCA420i - removed
Cupholders delete
TEC cupholder
Pre facelift headlights retrofit
OC e39r is offline  
Reply

Bookmarks

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the BMW M5 Forum and M6 Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in











Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Linear Mode Linear Mode
Rate This Thread:



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Driving technique using D & M modes Jim Dolan E60 M5 and E61 M5 Touring Discussion 3 13th December 2005 04:21 PM
Heel-toe technique in the M3 BobRod E90 M3 Sedan, E92 M3 Coupe, E93 M3 Convertible, E46 M3 and E36 M3, Z4 M and Z4 M Coupe 7 9th June 2003 03:56 PM
Clutch characteristics and Launching? bgomez Porsche 911 Turbo and Porsche Panamera Forum | panameraboard.com 2 13th March 2002 07:11 AM

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome