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E34 M5 Discussion 1988-1995 Sedan and Touring

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post #321 of 337 Old 23rd August 2018, 06:37 AM
First e28 M5
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Gosh Said "Where are the engraved Grove?"

Yes you are correct. I made an Error that they are
placed around the head as opposite on the ITB.

Lately I have been onto rebuilding bunch of S54 engines
and that Engraved grove remained in my mind to be
around the port as on the S54.

One firm Technical part of how to determine if the Cyl Head
is from 3.8 is sure the ports valves etc but let
say some one swapped valves to the 3.6 head which is very
common in order to achieve the 3,8 Cyl head performance
flow characteristics even valve seats can be matched as well.

I ran downstairs and brought my 3.8 to show you this specific
design which is only on 3.8l

As you know the 3.8 Head has Improved water jackets and
that is very specific for 3.8 only, look were I finger point the allen
screw size is M20x1.5 they are Quantity of (5) and they are very
specific size for the 3.8. Also the casting around the Allen is
little different but that can confuse one...

The 3.6 does have quantity of (3) and they use Allen size M30x1.5.

The part number you are referring 1 317 830 in your previous
post is for some perhaps time production frame ? But still I
don't go by part number I confirm by those Allen Plugs and the
casting around them.

I have seen different part number on real and collector's
3.8 cars I have seen for Service through the Years. I
remember 7 years ago when I wanted to order via BMW
cyl head for a customer who had his head cracked and
wanted a replacement from the dealer, and at that time
the nonsense BMW NA created on Euro Parts not to be Sold
to US did not exist. You can buy anything for M5 3.8 6spd
tranny name it. Anyway that part number never identify
the B38 from the BMW Parts Catalog.

Then I had to sit and study the real difference between
both but also I did not want to buy 3.6 turn to be 3.8
and be advertised for 3.8. Then I found that due to
improved cooling jackets the Allen Screws
I am referring to are very specific for the 3.8.

If Tom's cyl head has Quantity of (5) Allen Screw M20x1.5mm
then it is a real and Genuine 100% 3.8 cyl head.

From his google uploaded pics I can not see the head from up
top as I pictured for you.

But if Tom's Cyl head is genuine 3.8 then 3.6 paper gaskets
were used ? that means the ITB are from 3.6 46mm ?
Then were is the gain if not port matched, I wander ?

Regards,
Anri.
Attached Images
     

- E24 M6 1988. Shwartz/Tan (Daily driver).
- E24 M6 1988 Shwartz/Grey (Show car)
- E24 M6 1988 Royal Blue/Lotus. (Restoration)
- E24 M6 1988 Shwartz/Sparco S38-B36 3.6 (Track Toy).
- E28 M5 Black/Nature.
- E30 M3 1990. (Restoration)
- E31 840Ci 1997 Black/Black, all CSI futures daily driver soon S62-B50 6spd.
Need any model BMW work in So.Cal ?
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Last edited by First e28 M5; 24th August 2018 at 03:26 AM.
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post #322 of 337 Old 23rd August 2018, 08:26 AM
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Thumbs up

Many thank for that information. That's how I learned 2 new things today.
1.a further visual recognition feature
2.Allen screw = Imbusschraube



I was also looking for optical clues and found, that on all 3.8 heads the casting number 1 317 830 and on 3.6 heads always the casting number 1 306 853 was to be read. Hence my statement. Of course there are still B35, M88 (1-3), also these have other cast numbers

Last edited by gosch; 23rd August 2018 at 08:35 AM.
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post #323 of 337 Old 24th August 2018, 06:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by First e28 M5 View Post
I am not sure what you are all about this statement
above...but, BMW Motorsport GmbH and Team Schnitzer
were using the White Thick coating on all their E9 CSL M30/M49
massive headers, also on some the DTM S14 headers,
E26M1 ProCar series on all their headers, list continues...

BMW Motorsport GmbH (Paul Rosche) vs. Jim Rowe ? lol.

Enjoy the pic, Chris, on all my customers cars I have
this coating rather than the ceramic...

Regards,
Anri

A non-ceramic thermal barrier coating? Are you saying that BMW M/Schnitzer used a non-ceramic coating in the past?

Notwithstanding that, what sort of coating are you using? Low pressure plasma sprayed zirconia oxide stabilized with yttria/magnesium/calcium with a bond coat of nickel/chromium/aluminum? Fascinating stuff Anri.
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post #324 of 337 Old 24th August 2018, 06:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by de Witt View Post
low pressure plasma sprayed zirconia oxide stabilized with yttria/magnesium/calcium with a bond coat of nickel/chromium/aluminum? Fascinating stuff Anri.
Someone just scored himself a ticket on Janet Airlines to the annual Area 51 engine conference



Tony, Aussie expat in Jakarta Indonesia

1990 E34 M5 S38B36 GA25324
GA25324


1995 E34 540/5 Project
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post #325 of 337 Old 25th August 2018, 02:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by de Witt View Post
A non-ceramic thermal barrier coating?

de Witt,

No, it is ceramic based but the difference
is in the added texture and thickness and this
makes the difference between what Tom's headers
and the White Lightning.

The White lightening has similar to a fine sand texture
and when added to the general thickness to that
package together keeps the heat down better,
those small particles do held lots of heat.

I have tried moons ago both std. Ceramic thermal
and the White Lightening is my choice of coating
after I had them on 2 different S38 engines.
When I meant in my previous reply was I rather have
the package rather than the Ceramic coating
alone.

Hope this helps a bit ?

de Witt, I think it's about time go get back from off
topic to the main subject and let Powell finish the
project so Tom can enjoy his car.


Regards,
Anri

- E24 M6 1988. Shwartz/Tan (Daily driver).
- E24 M6 1988 Shwartz/Grey (Show car)
- E24 M6 1988 Royal Blue/Lotus. (Restoration)
- E24 M6 1988 Shwartz/Sparco S38-B36 3.6 (Track Toy).
- E28 M5 Black/Nature.
- E30 M3 1990. (Restoration)
- E31 840Ci 1997 Black/Black, all CSI futures daily driver soon S62-B50 6spd.
Need any model BMW work in So.Cal ?
https://www.instagram.com/euroclassicmotors/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XTV4asC3Bp0
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCyh..._as=subscriber

Last edited by First e28 M5; 25th August 2018 at 02:22 AM.
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post #326 of 337 Old 25th August 2018, 02:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AseanAero View Post
to the annual Area 51 engine conference
Toonnnny,

Papa no more Area 51 baby

Get the wrench and start taking
your S38 headers off and ship them.

Here are the links you chose to which
one.

White Lightning Exhaust Coatings | Swain Tech Coatings | Industrial Coatings | High Performance Racing Coatings

https://www.zircotec.com

2 to chose from lol,
Do I get a First Class flight to Indonesia ?

I am off for now.

Regards,
Anri

- E24 M6 1988. Shwartz/Tan (Daily driver).
- E24 M6 1988 Shwartz/Grey (Show car)
- E24 M6 1988 Royal Blue/Lotus. (Restoration)
- E24 M6 1988 Shwartz/Sparco S38-B36 3.6 (Track Toy).
- E28 M5 Black/Nature.
- E30 M3 1990. (Restoration)
- E31 840Ci 1997 Black/Black, all CSI futures daily driver soon S62-B50 6spd.
Need any model BMW work in So.Cal ?
https://www.instagram.com/euroclassicmotors/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XTV4asC3Bp0
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCyh..._as=subscriber

Last edited by First e28 M5; 25th August 2018 at 02:24 AM.
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post #327 of 337 Old 25th August 2018, 02:44 AM
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Thank you all, for your continued interest in Tom's car.


Anri, please accept my sincere apologies. We have butted heads every single time we've met at this forum, and I apologize for my part in those negative interactions. We are like oil and water, and we're probably never going to like each other....but that's fine.....this isn't about you and I, it's about Tom's car, as you have pointed out.


On to the point....


I do not ignore wisdom and experience...and neither does Tom. I acknowledge your great level of specific experience, Anri, and I am grateful to have you contributing that to Tom's endeavour.



Nobody is wearing blinders here, and we both recognize the hazards of (perhaps) excessive compression, in an era of old computers that can't protect the machinery.


Guided by the collective wisdom of this forum's members, including several ongoing discussions which are not shown here, Tom and I are exploring the use of a Haltech standalone system, including knock sensors.



Truly, I'd like to avoid this, because of the extra cost to Tom, as well as the inevitable delays and issues; dyno tuning, rewiring, adding cam sensor input, going to coil-on-plug, etc....


My only concern is doing the very best for Tom. He's put up with enough already. He just wants a reliable S38, and will happily use 93 R/M fuel.



Given these parameters, I'd certainly appreciate hearing erudite thoughts and suggestions.

Chris Powell
BMWCCA 274412
3x recertified Master Tech
Racing, skid, and HPDE instructor since 1978, for Brands Hatch, Skip, SCCA and BMWCCA
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post #328 of 337 Old 25th August 2018, 04:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bmwdirtracer View Post
Anri, please accept my sincere apologies.
Powell,

I have sent you PM.
I drop my phone number
and I would like to speak
to you, I will await for
your call.

Regards,
Anri

- E24 M6 1988. Shwartz/Tan (Daily driver).
- E24 M6 1988 Shwartz/Grey (Show car)
- E24 M6 1988 Royal Blue/Lotus. (Restoration)
- E24 M6 1988 Shwartz/Sparco S38-B36 3.6 (Track Toy).
- E28 M5 Black/Nature.
- E30 M3 1990. (Restoration)
- E31 840Ci 1997 Black/Black, all CSI futures daily driver soon S62-B50 6spd.
Need any model BMW work in So.Cal ?
https://www.instagram.com/euroclassicmotors/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XTV4asC3Bp0
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCyh..._as=subscriber
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post #329 of 337 Old 25th August 2018, 08:54 PM
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Many thanks, Anri, for your time and wisdom, on the telephone today. It was a great pleasure speaking with you, and I think this wonderful conversation will have cured all the difficulties you and I have encountered previously. I appreciate your sharing your experience with the S38, so that I may do the best possible work for Tom, with this unique situation.


Of course, I'll be at your service, anytime, if my racing or other experience might be helpful to you.


I certainly look forward to hearing about your conversations with your friend Turbo Joe, regarding whether he might be able to do on-line programming for a Haltech, with the car hooked to a dyno here in NC.


Again, my sincerest thanks, Anri.

Chris Powell
BMWCCA 274412
3x recertified Master Tech
Racing, skid, and HPDE instructor since 1978, for Brands Hatch, Skip, SCCA and BMWCCA
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post #330 of 337 Old 26th August 2018, 05:52 AM
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Chris,

It's all good my friend we are
all cool and I am happy to have
you as a friend. I am planing
to visit you in the near future
and let's go together to VIR
I want to see the track
meet you and have some fun.
And please let me drive your
M5 if I brake I will fix it !!!

Back to Tom.
As we spoke on the phone
and we both agree on the several
critical areas of were the Porsche
guy did approach in the way
I would not do but but we are
here to help Tom.

I saved a conversation I wanted
to discuss since you have the
car in your hand is the, Cam Timing !!!!

The very few S38 owners I have
met with 280cams which I believe
what Tom's Schrick cams are all the
cars made the motor performance
for the worst ! and actually people
are so disappointed from performance
cams etc..hell my fiend with 3.8 says
I will never do cams I just hated.

But but but I found what really works
the best. I have gone thru a lot of
experiments and I understand when
people are disappointed from
performance cams but not the case
here.

It is very critical for me to see what
cam timing the guy used because
ones the tune is done then if power
delivery is not as good then every
cam timing adjustment will require
minor re-tune so in order to safe
extra coast I want you to find what
cam timing the guy has dialed ?..
(please Text me on that or call me!).

Anyway let's see what Tom will say
all about our conversation.

Let me know, Chris. We will make this
work. And also as I mentioned Joe
will be able to make the Haltech and
do a remote tune.

To be continue.......

Regards,
Anri

- E24 M6 1988. Shwartz/Tan (Daily driver).
- E24 M6 1988 Shwartz/Grey (Show car)
- E24 M6 1988 Royal Blue/Lotus. (Restoration)
- E24 M6 1988 Shwartz/Sparco S38-B36 3.6 (Track Toy).
- E28 M5 Black/Nature.
- E30 M3 1990. (Restoration)
- E31 840Ci 1997 Black/Black, all CSI futures daily driver soon S62-B50 6spd.
Need any model BMW work in So.Cal ?
https://www.instagram.com/euroclassicmotors/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XTV4asC3Bp0
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCyh..._as=subscriber

Last edited by First e28 M5; 26th August 2018 at 06:04 AM.
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