How many E24 M6/M635CSi owners are in this forum ? - Page 3 - BMW M5 Forum and M6 Forums
E31 850 CSi and E24 M635 CSi M635 CSi (E24) 1983-89 and 850 CSi (E31) 1992-96. The Ultimate Grand Turismo by BMW M.

 34Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rating: Thread Rating: 1 votes, 5.00 average. Display Modes
post #21 of 86 Old 20th November 2012, 11:52 AM
Rorschach
Member, Sport: Off DSC: On (>50 posts)
 
Rorschach's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Torquay
Posts: 82
Thanks: 9
Thanked 8 Times in 2 Posts
Garage
Thank you again for all the details and explanations.
You have one hell of an engine and car !

And by any chance do you remember/have the info regarding the final bore and stroke numbers as well how much 'meat' between the cylinder walls?

"Surprises a lot of E39 M5 owners."
As i said, you have more torque in a 4L inline-6 than a 5L V8. Just plain crazy ! And no to mention the weight difference between the platforms.

Enjoy it in good health.
Rorschach is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #22 of 86 Old 20th November 2012, 12:23 PM
dhl93449
Fellow Member (>400)
 
dhl93449's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Pismo Beach, CA
Posts: 409
Thanks: 15
Thanked 32 Times in 29 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rorschach View Post
Thank you again for all the details and explanations.
You have one hell of an engine and car !

And by any chance do you remember/have the info regarding the final bore and stroke numbers as well how much 'meat' between the cylinder walls?


Enjoy it in good health.
Don't recall the exact numbers, but I do recall Frank telling me is design was maxed out with respect to cylinder wall thickness meat. Which means I cannot bore it any further (if I break a ring or something else nasty). BTW, Frank also had his own rings designed which contribute to the very low leakdown ratings. The motor has incredibly low oil consumption as well, compared to its native BMW brothers. I think I am still under about 250-300 cc in 3000 mi, at about 60 K mi on the motor. I do not use low viscosity synthetic oil.
dhl93449 is offline  
post #23 of 86 Old 20th November 2012, 01:02 PM
Rorschach
Member, Sport: Off DSC: On (>50 posts)
 
Rorschach's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Torquay
Posts: 82
Thanks: 9
Thanked 8 Times in 2 Posts
Garage
Yes, that's why i asked.

I know that the max overbore for S38B36 is 0,4mm (and for the S38B38 is 0,14 mm) and since the bores for the M88/3, S38B35 and S38B36 are the same (only the stroke differs) .
And the stock wall thickness is 6,6 mm for M88/3, S38b35 and S38B36 (for S38B38 is 5,4 mm)
Interested if he used the same numbers.

And very nice about the rings and low oil consumption.
May i ask what oil (viscosity) ? Something with a high level of ZDDP, Phosphorus (to protect the cam lobes) and HTHS (to protect the rod bearings) ?
Max rpm is the same? (also very nice about the improved harmonic dampener )

I think you have everything from that engine now.

Last edited by Rorschach; 20th November 2012 at 01:19 PM.
Rorschach is offline  
 
post #24 of 86 Old 20th November 2012, 03:20 PM Thread Starter
First e28 M5
Member, P500 Sport, DSC off (>900)
 
First e28 M5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: California/Bulgaria Sofia :-)
Age: 40
Posts: 906
Thanks: 92
Thanked 202 Times in 125 Posts
Thanks for posting :)

Hi,

Great story Sir !

Frank and I we are friends and I must say every time I visit his shop early in the morning shortly after I look at outside I realize its 6pm...! Time fly when you go visit Frank. Now I do remember Frank was telling me about your motor as a story what happen and etc...

I wander did you come at the Pistmo Beach E24 shark meet few months ago ??? I am currently maintaing an E39 M5 and must say its a great car for the money. But my heart is in the older model E24 M6.

I am located in LA area and will be traveling up north to visit family at San Luis Obispo, it will be great to meet you at Pismo Beach and see the beast !

Post some pics

Regards
Anri



Quote:
Originally Posted by dhl93449 View Post
The motor started out as a 3.8 liter Dinan stroker that had about 100 K mi on it. I had it dyno'd at about 330 crank HP (from 287 HP stock). It was using oil so I needed it rebuilt. When I went to Dinan Engineering I was shocked to find they refused to rebuild my motor, even though they built the original. In case you don't know much about the Dinan motor, they took the original M88 Euro 3.5 liter motor and bored it to 3.8 Liter in combination with a custom built crank and custom pistons. It also used a special EEPROM in the ECU. One of the main reasons Dynan refused to rebuild had to do with the custom pistons, which were too expensive to procure, esp in + sizes needed for a bore honing or repair. It was designed for a 9.5 CR so it could use pump gas without detonation problems.

Since Dinan could not help me, I went to Frank Fahey. He is a very well known shop that catered to early 80's M cars. He Federalized (did the DOT and EPA certification) for many gray market M cars including the M1. He also owns his own modified M1. He invented the well known hardened crank hub pulley that fixed the OEM crank hub stripping problem at high RPM.

I contacted Frank and he told me he could bore my motor to 4.0 liters and get nearly 400 HP, and with that Dinan stroker crank, 400 ft-lbs of torque. He had just completed an E34 M5 and they got dyno numbers over these. Pretty exciting numbers so I decided to have him do the work.

We pulled the motor apart and found appaling wear in the main bearings (due to my exclusive use of Mobil 1). Frank warned me that oil is garbage and I have the bearing wear to prove it. We also found eccentricity in the bore of the cylinders (a Dinan screw up) as well as cracks in the block (another Dinan defect). The motor was completely torn down and blue printed. Frank installed his custom pistons (I think built by Mahle) and we put in new con rods as well. Frank can fill you in with more details. He is particularly anal about the bore circularity which results in very low (under 1 or 2%) leak down rates. The leak down rate of the Dinan stroker was over 30% in some cylinders. The final compression was about 10.1:1.

We also put in Shrick exhaust cams (leaving intake stock) and a UNICHIP aux ECU. This is an "add on" computer that is used in parallel with the Euro stock ECU. It has the capability to provide more fuel than the stock ECU can provide and is tuned on the dyno.

The car is in CA, so it had to be "smog legal" meaning it had to be clean enough to pass tough CA emissions measurements with a cat equipped. The SS tubular Euro headers were retained, but the flanges modified to fit the US M6 cats. When not using the cats, a track pipe (for off road use only) fits between the headers and the US center resonator/exhaust combo. I use a fully US exhaust system so I can bolt up the cats. The only issue I have is the tail pipe tips are not quite centered in the Euro rear M Technic valence.

I have the dyno charts somewhere but it was some time ago when the work was completed. As you can imagine, 375 HP with 400+ ft-lbs of torque really make this 3300 lb car scoot. It is extremely fast between 80 and about 130 MPH. Surprises a lot of E39 M5 owners.

- E24 M6 1988. Shwartz/Tan (Daily driver).
- E24 M6 1988 Shwartz/Grey (Show car)
- E24 M6 1988 Royal Blue/Lotus. (Restoration)
- E24 M6 1988 Shwartz/Sparco S38-B36 3.6 (Track Toy).
- E28 M5 Black/Nature.
- E30 M3 1990. (Restoration)
- E31 840Ci 1997 Black/Black, all CSI futures daily driver soon S62-B50 6spd.
Need any model BMW work in So.Cal ?
https://www.instagram.com/euroclassicmotors/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XTV4asC3Bp0
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCyh..._as=subscriber

Last edited by First e28 M5; 20th November 2012 at 03:24 PM.
First e28 M5 is offline  
post #25 of 86 Old 21st November 2012, 02:14 AM
dhl93449
Fellow Member (>400)
 
dhl93449's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Pismo Beach, CA
Posts: 409
Thanks: 15
Thanked 32 Times in 29 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rorschach View Post
Yes, that's why i asked.

I know that the max overbore for S38B36 is 0,4mm (and for the S38B38 is 0,14 mm) and since the bores for the M88/3, S38B35 and S38B36 are the same (only the stroke differs) .
And the stock wall thickness is 6,6 mm for M88/3, S38b35 and S38B36 (for S38B38 is 5,4 mm)
Interested if he used the same numbers.

And very nice about the rings and low oil consumption.
May i ask what oil (viscosity) ? Something with a high level of ZDDP, Phosphorus (to protect the cam lobes) and HTHS (to protect the rod bearings) ?
Max rpm is the same? (also very nice about the improved harmonic dampener )

I think you have everything from that engine now.
I am using a specailty oil from Brad Penn Racing. It used to be the old Conoco Phillips "green" oil (in fact, Brad Penn purchased the old Conoco Oil refinery making the oil in PA). I use 20-50W. It is basicly a dino oil but does have some synthetic additives. Well regarded in the drag racing circles where (unlike F1 and Mobil 1) the racers actually use the oil. Frank Fahey turned me on to this stuff and it really works well. I also use it in the E39 M5 instead of that 10W-60 Castrol stuff. I change the oil at 3K mi and oil analysis shows the additive package is still very good and wear components negligable. I have very good low oil consumption in both cars.

Regarding more from the motor, Frank thinks we can get more by putting in the other Shrick cam and going to a completely electronic engine management system, and dumping the Bosh air flow meter (a major limitation over about 350 Hp) and Bosch ECU. Of course, the impact on emissions is unknown, and I hesitate (1) because i am happy with the car as is, and (2) I don't want smog pass/fail issues due to the much more radical tune.

BTW, have you heard of Frank's latest project the "BIMVet?" It is a highly modified Euro M6 with a LS7 Corvett motor transplant. Well over 650 Hp at the rear wheels.
dhl93449 is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to dhl93449 For This Useful Post:
Mstnd (28th November 2012)
post #26 of 86 Old 21st November 2012, 02:41 AM
dhl93449
Fellow Member (>400)
 
dhl93449's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Pismo Beach, CA
Posts: 409
Thanks: 15
Thanked 32 Times in 29 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by First e28 M5 View Post
Hi,

Great story Sir !

Frank and I we are friends and I must say every time I visit his shop early in the morning shortly after I look at outside I realize its 6pm...! Time fly when you go visit Frank. Now I do remember Frank was telling me about your motor as a story what happen and etc...

I wander did you come at the Pistmo Beach E24 shark meet few months ago ??? I am currently maintaing an E39 M5 and must say its a great car for the money. But my heart is in the older model E24 M6.

I am located in LA area and will be traveling up north to visit family at San Luis Obispo, it will be great to meet you at Pismo Beach and see the beast !

Post some pics

Regards
Anri
I look forward to meeting you (see my response to your PM). I have missed many of the "Sharkfests" as I simply am not on the mailing list anylonger. Last one I attended was in Paso Robles way back in 2006 or so.

I had to buy the E39 simply because I have over 250K on one M6 and about 100k on the other (sold). Having two high milage Euro M cars is not a high reliability scenario. Still love the M6, especially the seats, which I sorely miss on the E39 M5. Have been looking for years for replacement Recaros for the M5 but the complications with the airbags makes things difficult. The M6 is just a fun car and feels so much more in tune with the driver vs the M5. Plus, all the gizmos/gadgets on the M5 are nice but not essential for me. It can be a very difficult car to work on due to the total lack of published documentation. Thank God for this board, which is the only remaining source for DIY and troubleshooting info on the E39. The ODBII system on the M5 is a real PITA, as I seem to get a Check Engine Light once a year. I have already replaced all 4 O2 sensors and all 4 CPS on the E39, with under 42K mi on the clock. NEVER had that kind of issue with the M6.

I wanted to replace my battery in the E39 soon after I got the car with a fully sealed type but it did not quite fit. I thought, "no problem" I'll just get a longer bat cable. When I went to look up a replacement (which I was going to splice with longer cable) I found the cost was well over $500, and you could not mess with it brecause it has explosive squids on the end connector for the airbag system. Turns out, if you roll the car, it blows the bat connection to disable the electrical system as part of airbag deployment. YIKES!
dhl93449 is offline  
post #27 of 86 Old 21st November 2012, 07:50 PM
Ferrari-Bmw
M5 Guru (>2000 posts)
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Iceland// Nürburgring//Ascari
Age: 55
Posts: 2,885
Thanks: 208
Thanked 199 Times in 154 Posts
Nice this F.H. 4.0 Liter engine,,

but i doubt that this engine is making 400 lbs/ft of torque,,,,,,,,

this is 542 nm..

I am almost positive that this engine have one of the highest torque spec that i have EVER heard of,, @ cc ,,on a N/A engine

i think we must see the data graph from the dyno

Sveinbjörn Hrafnsson

E30 CABRIO V12 M70B50 ///
ALPINA B10 BITURBO 346 @ 507
E34 550 V12 JML

http://alpina.123.is/pictures/
Ferrari-Bmw is offline  
post #28 of 86 Old 26th November 2012, 06:29 AM
dhl93449
Fellow Member (>400)
 
dhl93449's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Pismo Beach, CA
Posts: 409
Thanks: 15
Thanked 32 Times in 29 Posts
As promised, pics of my "Dinan" Euro E24 M635:
Attached Images
             
dhl93449 is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to dhl93449 For This Useful Post:
First e28 M5 (28th November 2012)
post #29 of 86 Old 28th November 2012, 06:32 PM Thread Starter
First e28 M5
Member, P500 Sport, DSC off (>900)
 
First e28 M5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: California/Bulgaria Sofia :-)
Age: 40
Posts: 906
Thanks: 92
Thanked 202 Times in 125 Posts
New Friend

Hi D'Arcy,

It was pleasure to meet you !

Thanks for the ride. I felt the increased engine capacity immediately after we took off. It is blast to drive that fun toy. Fast as well regardless we took the the M88/3 animal only up to 5k-ish.

I will see you soon when we come back.

Regards
Anri

- E24 M6 1988. Shwartz/Tan (Daily driver).
- E24 M6 1988 Shwartz/Grey (Show car)
- E24 M6 1988 Royal Blue/Lotus. (Restoration)
- E24 M6 1988 Shwartz/Sparco S38-B36 3.6 (Track Toy).
- E28 M5 Black/Nature.
- E30 M3 1990. (Restoration)
- E31 840Ci 1997 Black/Black, all CSI futures daily driver soon S62-B50 6spd.
Need any model BMW work in So.Cal ?
https://www.instagram.com/euroclassicmotors/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XTV4asC3Bp0
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCyh..._as=subscriber
First e28 M5 is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to First e28 M5 For This Useful Post:
dhl93449 (28th November 2012)
post #30 of 86 Old 7th January 2013, 12:15 PM
Stoffie
Member, Sport: On DSC: On (>100 posts)
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Belgium
Posts: 110
Thanks: 1
Thanked 21 Times in 21 Posts
Another E24 M635 owner here. Puts a smile on my face every time!

That bored out Dinan sounds awesome...we need to see some video's!
Stoffie is offline  
Reply

Bookmarks

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the BMW M5 Forum and M6 Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in











Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Linear Mode Linear Mode
Rate This Thread:



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Report: S38 M88 conference with E34 M5, E28 M5, E24 M635CSI and E30 320iS raymondw E34 M5 Discussion 3 9th May 2011 04:28 PM
Report: S38-M88 conference with E24 M635CSI, E28 M5, E34 M5 and E30 320iS raymondw E28 M5 Discussion 4 9th May 2011 09:50 AM
Auto Motor & Sport 12/1986 ///M-mission (E26 M1, E28 M5, E28 M535i, E30 M3 and E24 M635CSI) raymondw E28 M5 Discussion 4 8th December 2010 10:48 PM
I've Bought Colin's E24 UK RHD M635CSI davidoli E28 M5 Discussion 22 19th February 2009 05:13 PM
M5 E28 vs M635csi E24 svargas E28 M5 Discussion 2 6th June 2007 05:18 PM

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome