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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
After reading so many threads on the oil issue and the numerous "recommendations", I decided to once again to make some observations and maybe try to understand all the confusion.

Under my MY01 Beast hood, there is a sticker that reads that oil to be used is 5W30.

In the Owner's Manual on page 140, the approved oils are 10W60. Further down it reads "If the vehicle is used for a lengthy period at temperatures below 5 degrees F (-15 degrees C), you must switch to using a synthetic oil in the 5W30 viscosity class.

Now if I was to only rely on the sticker under the hood, I would only use 5W30 all the time.

Now if I was to only rely on the owners manual, I would use 10W60 until temperatures fall below 5 degrees F (-15 degrees C) for a lengthy time at which point I must switch to 5W30.

With two different instructions, both from BMW, I'm getting a sense of why all the confusion, if that. But since BMW states both, the assumption is both is correct.

So instead of deciding which set of instructions to follow or which grade to use, I'll just do as I have always done before, just make sure oil levels are correct.

Unless there is a definitive answer.
 

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The definitive answer is, there is no answer.
 

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canysmc said:
So instead of deciding which set of instructions to follow or which grade to use, I'll just do as I have always done before, just make sure oil levels are correct.
I guess I'm confused... WHO will be making the decision for oil grade in your car?
 

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I didn't read the entire thread but FWIW, after M3 engines receive their upgraded bearings, they also get a sticker under the hood changing any 5w-30 spec to 10w-60. So, I'd go with that except under "cold" conditions as stated in the manual.
 

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<!--[if gte vml 1]><v:shapetype id="_x0000_t75" coordsize="21600,21600" o:spt="75" o:preferrelative="t" path="[email protected]@[email protected]@[email protected]@[email protected]@5xe" filled="f" stroked="f"> <v:stroke joinstyle="miter"/> <v:formulas> <v:f eqn="if lineDrawn pixelLineWidth 0"/> <v:f eqn="sum @0 1 0"/> <v:f eqn="sum 0 0 @1"/> <v:f eqn="prod @2 1 2"/> <v:f eqn="prod @3 21600 pixelWidth"/> <v:f eqn="prod @3 21600 pixelHeight"/> <v:f eqn="sum @0 0 1"/> <v:f eqn="prod @6 1 2"/> <v:f eqn="prod @7 21600 pixelWidth"/> <v:f eqn="sum @8 21600 0"/> <v:f eqn="prod @7 21600 pixelHeight"/> <v:f eqn="sum @10 21600 0"/> </v:formulas> <v:path o:extrusionok="f" gradientshapeok="t" o:connecttype="rect"/> <o:lock v:ext="edit" aspectratio="t"/> </v:shapetype><v:shape id="_x0000_i1028" type="#_x0000_t75" alt="" style='width:11.25pt; height:11.25pt'> <v:imagedata src="file:///C:/DOCUME~1/Joe/LOCALS~1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image001.gif" o:href="http://www.m5board.com/vbulletin/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif"/> </v:shape><![endif]--><!--[if !vml]-->In dealing with all car manufactures this is their way of NOT admitting to a factory-engineering mistake. Cars and this one in particular are extremely complex. Most high-end cars are on the cusp of technology when new. Sometimes they don't hit it right the first time and changes have to be made. Which is OK but who's going to pay for it is the big question. Now BMW M engineers are some of the best in the world and it's real hard for these guys to admit to ANY mistakes. They make a MEAN product it’s hard to dispute. So in comes the smoke screen. They have a problem with the early engines with oil consumption because of either the piston rings or the cylinder walls were being compromised by our fuel in the states, (they sale enough cars in the states you would think they would know our fuel compounds by now). :3:<!--[endif]--> So next think you know we are using the wrong oil, then we are using the right oil, then where using the wrong oil <!--[if gte vml 1]><v:shape id="_x0000_i1029" type="#_x0000_t75" alt="" style='width:11.25pt;height:11.25pt'> <v:imagedata src="file:///C:/DOCUME~1/Joe/LOCALS~1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image002.gif" o:href="http://www.m5board.com/vbulletin/images/smilies/mad.gif"/> </v:shape><![endif]--><!--[if !vml]-->:grrrrr:<!--[endif]-->it was 10-60 now it's 5-30 then it's 10-60 now's its 5-30. Hey I'd throw a smoke screen too if I had to pay for 16000 M5 motors at 26K a piece plus labor (list price).

Your engine tag clearly states 5-30
Your owners manual clearly states 10-60
TIS clearly states cars built before 3/00 use 10-60 after OK to use 5-30
BMW NA states it voids the warranty if you use 10-60 in a 5-30 car
Some dealers say it's ok to use 10-60 in 5-30 cars some say it's not

Are we confused yet? <!--[if gte vml 1]><v:shape id="_x0000_i1025" type="#_x0000_t75" alt="" style='width:11.25pt;height:11.25pt'> <v:imagedata src="file:///C:/DOCUME~1/Joe/LOCALS~1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image003.gif" o:href="http://www.m5board.com/vbulletin/images/smilies/mhihi.gif"/> </v:shape><![endif]--><!--[if !vml]-->:hihi:<!--[endif]-->

We should be. These are official BMW spokes people and information. To this date I have not read anything on this board from someone at BMW about this situation.

The bottom line is this it not unusual for an automotive manufacture to NOT comment on a problem especially if it's going to get the accountants and lawyers up in arms. (No offense to all you good professions on this board.)<!--[if gte vml 1]><v:shape id="_x0000_i1026" type="#_x0000_t75" alt="" style='width:11.25pt;height:11.25pt'> <v:imagedata src="file:///C:/DOCUME~1/Joe/LOCALS~1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image004.gif" o:href="http://www.m5board.com/vbulletin/images/smilies/biglaugh.gif"/> </v:shape><![endif]--><!--[if !vml]-->:haha:<!--[endif]-->

To this date I still have not heard of anyone losing an engine over viscosity.
You lose it because you don't change the oil often enough. Dirt is your biggest enemy. Change your oil more then the 12k BMW recommends.

All these thoughts are strictly mine and do not reflect the consensus or opinions of the owners of this board. <!--[if gte vml 1]><v:shape id="_x0000_i1027" type="#_x0000_t75" alt="" style='width:29.25pt;height:11.25pt'> <v:imagedata src="file:///C:/DOCUME~1/Joe/LOCALS~1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image005.gif" o:href="http://www.m5board.com/vbulletin/images/smilies/roflmao.gif"/> </v:shape><![endif]--><!--[if !vml]-->hiha<!--[endif]-->(Say real fast)

Sorry to rant on
Joe

<!--[if !supportEmptyParas]-->P.S. I use 10-60w in my 5/00 and change the oil every 5k.
 

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Need4Spd said:
I didn't read the entire thread but FWIW, after M3 engines receive their upgraded bearings, they also get a sticker under the hood changing any 5w-30 spec to 10w-60. So, I'd go with that except under "cold" conditions as stated in the manual.
I also ead somewhere that dealers were queaking the CPU and lowering the redline by 500rpm's?????? :confused2
 

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hudson said:
BMW NA states it voids the warranty if you use 10-60 in a 5-30 car
Pretty sure this is incorrect. 10W60 is OK per their TIS. In those cars where 5w30 is 'recommended', the 10w60 is acceptable...

hudson said:
All these thoughts are strictly mine and do not reflect the consensus or opinions of the owners of this board. .
Who said you're not lawyer material?!

A
 

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canysmc said:
After reading so many threads on the oil issue and the numerous "recommendations", I decided to once again to make some observations and maybe try to understand all the confusion.

Under my MY01 Beast hood, there is a sticker that reads that oil to be used is 5W30.

In the Owner's Manual on page 140, the approved oils are 10W60. Further down it reads "If the vehicle is used for a lengthy period at temperatures below 5 degrees F (-15 degrees C), you must switch to using a synthetic oil in the 5W30 viscosity class.

Now if I was to only rely on the sticker under the hood, I would only use 5W30 all the time.

Now if I was to only rely on the owners manual, I would use 10W60 until temperatures fall below 5 degrees F (-15 degrees C) for a lengthy time at which point I must switch to 5W30.

With two different instructions, both from BMW, I'm getting a sense of why all the confusion, if that. But since BMW states both, the assumption is both is correct.

So instead of deciding which set of instructions to follow or which grade to use, I'll just do as I have always done before, just make sure oil levels are correct.

Unless there is a definitive answer.
There is no definitive answer but you can make some general conclusions that apply to using motor oil in any motor vehicle such as:

Any oil used should meet or exceed the manufacturer's requirements. For the M5 this means a true synthetic (HTHS) oil that meets BMW Long Life 01 and Europeon ACEA A3/B3 ratings.

Use a motor oil appropriate to the environmental conditions in which you operate. 10w-60 is a very good bet in an Arizona summer, 0W-30, 5W-30 or 0W-40 work better in a colder climate.

Most engine wears occurs between initial startup and coming to operating temperture. You really don't want a too thick motor oil for a cold start.

Change your oil and oil filter at the earlier of twice a year or 7,500 miles. This is probably more important that which viscosity range you choose. Change your air filters every 15,000 miles or 18 months - which ever comes earlier.

Increase change frequencies if you subject your M5 to severe service such as lots of short city trips (where you don't get up to operating temp.) or very dusty conditions.

Avoid motor oil additives unless they are specifically recommended by the vehicle manufacturer. There is a lot of snake oil being sold. A high quality motor oil already has all it needs in it's additive package.

Regards,

Greg :wroom:
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
ard said:
I guess I'm confused... WHO will be making the decision for oil grade in your car?
It's obvious I will. But the point was, since there are two sets of recommendations and numerous opinions, just make sure levels are correct regardless of which viscosity chosen.

And the same point as Hudson stated:
To this date I still have not heard of anyone losing an engine over viscosity.
You lose it because you don't change the oil often enough. Dirt is your biggest enemy. Change your oil more then the 12k BMW recommends.
 

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Last 03 5 said:
Change your oil and oil filter at the earlier of twice a year or 7,500 miles. This is probably more important that which viscosity range you choose. Change your air filters every 15,000 miles or 18 months - which ever comes earlier.
BMW says to change oil at least once a year. What is twice a year based on? Why change the filters in 18 months if low milage? What damage takes place if the filters are just sitting?
 

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canysmc said:
It's obvious I will. But the point was, since there are two sets of recommendations and numerous opinions, just make sure levels are correct regardless of which viscosity chosen.

And the same point as Hudson stated:
To this date I still have not heard of anyone losing an engine over viscosity.
You lose it because you don't change the oil often enough. Dirt is your biggest enemy. Change your oil more then the 12k BMW recommends.
Ahh, cool... I was thinking you'd just let the dealer do whatever and you'd just make sure the levels were good.

I agree that fluid change frequency has a greater impact than viscosity- for street use no matter how aggressive. Track use might be a different
story..

A
 

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Hi Canysmc
I have been doing alot of research on this becorse i discovered what some ot you are righting here. The recomandation specialy in the US have ben very different on M5 and Z8 and confusing, so i have a contact on BMW M that i had this "problem" discused with, it had confused alot of people incl. me.
I deal with Castrol that makes TWS oil that are claimed to me made for this engine only, have had that discusion here to. the butom line for me is that it has to do with marketing and avalabilaty and different enviroment standarts. It dosnt make it less confusing but that is my draft after month of discosions wit bouth BMW M and Castrol. It dosn´t either make it ok, to confuse you even more i have had a oil analysis made on the TWS 10/60 after 8000 km in an M5 engine, guess what, thats not eaven close to 10/60 anymore, so i have to agry i dont think we ever find the right answer, my sugestion is use TWS 10/60 in the summer and RS 0/40 in the winther if you drive it winther and gets below 5 degre celcius - you can eaven try Statoil racingway 25/50 in the summer - fantastic oil for summer use only, if you van get it otherwice i can get it for you the price are under half the price of TWS.

have a nice summer

canysmc said:
After reading so many threads on the oil issue and the numerous "recommendations", I decided to once again to make some observations and maybe try to understand all the confusion.

Under my MY01 Beast hood, there is a sticker that reads that oil to be used is 5W30.

In the Owner's Manual on page 140, the approved oils are 10W60. Further down it reads "If the vehicle is used for a lengthy period at temperatures below 5 degrees F (-15 degrees C), you must switch to using a synthetic oil in the 5W30 viscosity class.

Now if I was to only rely on the sticker under the hood, I would only use 5W30 all the time.

Now if I was to only rely on the owners manual, I would use 10W60 until temperatures fall below 5 degrees F (-15 degrees C) for a lengthy time at which point I must switch to 5W30.

With two different instructions, both from BMW, I'm getting a sense of why all the confusion, if that. But since BMW states both, the assumption is both is correct.

So instead of deciding which set of instructions to follow or which grade to use, I'll just do as I have always done before, just make sure oil levels are correct.

Unless there is a definitive answer.
 

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Not surprising about the 10/60 viscosity being lower than expected at 8k km -- I've always understood that the shearing forces tear apart the bonds responsible for the temperature dependent viscosity variation. On the other side of the coin, I recently had the 5w30 tested by Blackstone Labs after it was in my car for 6900 miles, and they commented that the viscosity was a little higher than expected for a 5w30, which I thought was "interesting". ;)

Here's their whole comment: Nothing too unusual showed up in this initial sample from your BMW engine. Wear was excellent, showing no mechanical problems and excellent maintenance. No moisture or anti-freeze was found. The viscosity was a little higher than expected for a 5W/30, but it's still in the proper range. Insolubles (oil oxidation due to heat and use) were normal, so your oil filtration system is working well. Silicon was fine at 6 ppm, showing no problems at the air filtration/induction system. Looks good! Check back to establish solid wear trends.

Their "SUS Viscosity @ 210F" test had an expected range of 57-64, and the BMW 5W30 oil after 6900 miles was 65.
 

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The ultimate answer for all the questions is 42 :)))))) :thumbsup:
 

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Philip said:
BMW says to change oil at least once a year. What is twice a year based on? Why change the filters in 18 months if low milage? What damage takes place if the filters are just sitting?
You know that's what I use to think too, but if you look at the 03 manual it says at least every two years The German dealer pointed that out to me when I made an appointment to change the oil 'early' because the one year period expired before I had accumulated 2000 miles. :sad1:
Worse yet not only does BMW of Germany recommend long drain interval oils for their cars you can not get a BMW dealer to change the oil until either the green lights are gone or TWO years. Doesn't matter to them you are paying and they will make some profit for your visit.
It is either do it yourself or find an independent shop.
Ken
 

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kwalls said:
You know that's what I use to think too, but if you look at the 03 manual it says at least every two years The German dealer pointed that out to me when I made an appointment to change the oil 'early' because the one year period expired before I had accumulated 2000 miles. :sad1:
Worse yet not only does BMW of Germany recommend long drain interval oils for their cars you can not get a BMW dealer to change the oil until either the green lights are gone or TWO years. Doesn't matter to them you are paying and they will make some profit for your visit.
It is either do it yourself or find an independent shop.
Ken
Ken

The first time I looked I misread the owners manual also. I would definitely change the oil myself or have an independent do it for you in between BMW services.


Joe
 

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kwalls said:
Worse yet not only does BMW of Germany recommend long drain interval oils for their cars you can not get a BMW dealer to change the oil until either the green lights are gone or TWO years.

Doesn't matter to them you are paying and they will make some profit for your visit.
It is either do it yourself or find an independent shop.
Ken
Oh those wacky Germans....
 
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