BMW M5 Forum and M6 Forums banner

1 - 20 of 53 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
49,476 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
I was very worried when I read the latest German Autobild Sportscars, the performance with this optional Poweerkit that bumpos the power from 500 HP to 540 HP (at €16 696). Almost ubeleivable performancenumbers from the Panamera with Double Clutch and 4WD:

Results where 1. Porsche, 2. Mercedes, 3. ALPINA, 4. Jaguar

BMW ALPINA B7 BiTurbo Allrad vs Mercedes S63 AMG Power Package (571 HP), Jaguar XJ Supersport 5.0 V8 and Porsche Panamera Turbo Powerkit (540 HP)

Sad news was that the Alpina was last to 0-200 km/h at a still quite respectable time of 16,0 s

0-200 km/h

BMW ALPINA B7 BiTurbo Allrad: 16,3 s
Mercedes S63 AMG Power Package (571 HP) 13,3 s (>BMW M5 E60 performance right there)
Jaguar XJ Supersport 5.0 V8 16,0 s
Porsche Panamera Turbo Powerkit 11,8 s :eek7:

0-100 km/h

BMW ALPINA B7 BiTurbo Allrad: 4,7 s
Mercedes S63 AMG Power Package (571 HP) 4,3 s (>BMW M5 E60 performance right there)
Jaguar XJ Supersport 5.0 V8 4,6 s
Porsche Panamera Turbo Powerkit 3,6 s :eek7:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,886 Posts
Being a big Panamera fan, I still don't think it is quite fair to compare a $100K BMW to a $150K+ Porsche. I think the better comparison is with the Panamera 4S, which will give it a run to 60, but won't even be close after that.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
537 Posts
The best 0-60 mph (0-100 kph almost) time I've seen for a stock E60 M5 is 4.2 seconds from an 06 article in Road and Track. But whatever. It's not supposed to be a drag car :) It's an autobahn cruiser that pulls like crazy at triple digit speeds.

Will the F10 M5 still have identical or stronger pulling power at triple digit speeds or will most of the power come at the lower and midrange speeds only and lose topend? Hmm.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
476 Posts
Perhaps I am naive...but I have a hard time believeing the Panamera turbo will beat a Z06 Vette to 100mph. 8.2 to 100mph is insane. The M5 stokers arent even pulling that and they weigh 300lbs less and have 120hp more! Yeah I know it's 4wd with lots of torque...But come on...300lbs heavier and 120hp less...Something isnt right. C/D always has the most inflated numbers anyway...across the board, lol!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
150 Posts
The Porsche is very quick

With 540 HP - I suspect 0-60 in 3.0 seconds with launch control - and all wheel drive to boot

After that - the M5 will catch it - maybe not at the 1/4 mile - but let the M5 stretch it's legs a bit

once these cars get over 150 - 160 mph - it's all M5

Watch and see

The ///M division did their homework -

I've never been impressed with stoplight warior crap

0-60 and 1/4 mile times don't tell the whole story

Get them on the Autobahn - there's no place for the Panamera to hide
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
47 Posts
I will not be surprised if Porsche bumps the Panamera Turbo to 540 hp (standard) right before the M5/M6 are launched.

Although the price differential will ultimately be only 20-25%between an M5 and Panamera TT. Sounds like a lot but when you are already spending 120k MSRP for a M5, 165 is not too far off....additionally, expect m5s to launch at MSRP or above while the Panamera should be well discounted.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,886 Posts
I will not be surprised if Porsche bumps the Panamera Turbo to 540 hp (standard) right before the M5/M6 are launched.

Although the price differential will ultimately be only 20-25%between an M5 and Panamera TT. Sounds like a lot but when you are already spending 120k MSRP for a M5, 165 is not too far off....additionally, expect m5s to launch at MSRP or above while the Panamera should be well discounted.
I HOPE the pricing isn't as close as you are predicting. I think the real difference will be more like 50%.

First, if the M5 with a standard set of options (figure $10K or so) is $120K, then I think it will lose a huge chunk of buyers. As I said in another post, I think the M5 will list at under $90K, with a reasonably optioned car priced under $100K.

Second, if you really compare apples to apples, you need to option the Panamera out to match the standard M5. Porsche is notorious for specifying their standard car with minimal options, and gouging the heck out of you for what really should have been standard. I would guess that when all is said and done, a well optioned F10 M5 will come in at right around $100K, and right now the same Panamera Turbo will be close to $150K, and that is without the $21K Powerkit.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
16 Posts
Being a big Panamera fan, I still don't think it is quite fair to compare a $100K BMW to a $150K+ Porsche. I think the better comparison is with the Panamera 4S, which will give it a run to 60, but won't even be close after that.
I HOPE the pricing isn't as close as you are predicting. I think the real difference will be more like 50%.

First, if the M5 with a standard set of options (figure $10K or so) is $120K, then I think it will lose a huge chunk of buyers. As I said in another post, I think the M5 will list at under $90K, with a reasonably optioned car priced under $100K.

Second, if you really compare apples to apples, you need to option the Panamera out to match the standard M5. Porsche is notorious for specifying their standard car with minimal options, and gouging the heck out of you for what really should have been standard. I would guess that when all is said and done, a well optioned F10 M5 will come in at right around $100K, and right now the same Panamera Turbo will be close to $150K, and that is without the $21K Powerkit.

Keep in mind that Porsche makes by far the greatest profit per vehicle vs other auto manufacturers.. Though the Panamera may be $50K more pricey, the difference in cost to manufacture both vehicles is far less...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
476 Posts
That Panamera is clearly fast and I know it's 4wd, so it gets a good launch, but with a 3.4 sec 0-60 time i would've expected a slightly better 1/4 mi time. Also, I think alot of the US mags, C/D, R/T seem to exploit the true performance. Why is it that the Euro/Asian mags always show slower times? I know some of them are 0-100km or 400 meters etc...but that's not always the case. Some use 0-60 etc...Seems strange to me. 3.4 seems insane for a 4600lb car with "only" 500hp. The Lambo's put out more power than that, are lighter and don't get those times. I suppose it's "all" about the torque, LOL!!!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
49,476 Posts
Discussion Starter #15
Also, please notice tthat the times Iqouted was with the quite new Powerkit which bmps the power to540 HP at arond €16 000 alone for the kit.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,886 Posts
That Panamera is clearly fast and I know it's 4wd, so it gets a good launch, but with a 3.4 sec 0-60 time i would've expected a slightly better 1/4 mi time. Also, I think alot of the US mags, C/D, R/T seem to exploit the true performance. Why is it that the Euro/Asian mags always show slower times? I know some of them are 0-100km or 400 meters etc...but that's not always the case. Some use 0-60 etc...Seems strange to me. 3.4 seems insane for a 4600lb car with "only" 500hp. The Lambo's put out more power than that, are lighter and don't get those times. I suppose it's "all" about the torque, LOL!!!
I agree with you that 3.4 sec for 0-60 in a 3600 lb. car is insane. Here's why I think it may be true (still insane).

1. 4wd combined with Porsche launch control probably accounts for close to 1/2 second. Check out this Road and Track test of the 4wd Lambo with the same weight as the Panamera, but 670 HP. The two cars have the same 0-30 time!! After that, the Lambo walks away. I would guess the Porsche launch control combined with their overall drivetrain is probably better than anything out there.

2. The PDK transmission is just brilliant - probably the best of any in a passenger car. It probably saves a few tenths to 60 as well as the 1/4 mile time.

The 1/4 mile time is believable for a 3600 lb. 500 HP car since the start was so damn quick. The trap speed is no faster than the M5. I would bet the 60' times for this car are in the low 1 second range.
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
49,476 Posts
Discussion Starter #17
Double clutch mated with 4WD is a perfect combination for launches; see the Nissan GTR and 911 Turbo PDK.

I agree with you that 3.4 sec for 0-60 in a 3600 lb. car is insane. Here's why I think it may be true (still insane).

1. 4wd combined with Porsche launch control probably accounts for close to 1/2 second. Check out this Road and Track test of the 4wd Lambo with the same weight as the Panamera, but 670 HP. The two cars have the same 0-30 time!! After that, the Lambo walks away. I would guess the Porsche launch control combined with their overall drivetrain is probably better than anything out there.

2. The PDK transmission is just brilliant - probably the best of any in a passenger car. It probably saves a few tenths to 60 as well as the 1/4 mile time.

The 1/4 mile time is believable for a 3600 lb. 500 HP car since the start was so damn quick. The trap speed is no faster than the M5. I would bet the 60' times for this car are in the low 1 second range.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,038 Posts
The Porsche is very quick

With 540 HP - I suspect 0-60 in 3.0 seconds with launch control - and all wheel drive to boot

After that - the M5 will catch it - maybe not at the 1/4 mile - but let the M5 stretch it's legs a bit
Your comment might be true for the E60 M5, but the F10 is in the same league as the Panamera Turbo.

The E60 is more spirited at higher speeds because of the nature of its engine and the two extra cylinders it has. The F10 will not need to stretch its legs before it can deliver full performance. Therefore, I really doubt that it will be able to catch the Panamera Turbo at any speed.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
90 Posts
Well the panamera turbo is very fast,but it is not a great drivers car,and more importantly it is so ugly I wouldn't care if it was faster than a veyron,I would feel sick looking at it every day.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,098 Posts
In my opinion the Panamera (Turbo) is a very different car then the ///M5 and will compete more with BMW's future Grand Coupe. Mind you driving the Panamera S really did remind me of the E39 M5 - BMW has its work cut out for them. Panamera differences are large but not huge and its no surprise they have probably taken a 5 series customer here and there.

The Panamera is for the most part a:

1) Unique platform - BMW uses the F10 in so many variants.
2) Options galore - yes M5 has some but Panamera is ridiculous.
3) Four wheel drive - add some cost I am sure.
4) Lighter then the F10 - don't know how they did it.
5) Four seater - instead of a 5 like F10.
6) Way more expensive - configured one at $177k the other day - crazy!

At the end of the day I still think the F10 is winner in my eyes.. and really pumped for the M5. BMW has its sights set on the competition but it should worry more about the RS6, E63AMG, and Jag. they are coming out with decent variants and rumor has it Porsche is also working on a 5 series competitor. BMW needs to stay focused on what got it here and made it successful; true sports sedans.
 
1 - 20 of 53 Posts
Top