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Discussion Starter #1
As you know, the first customer deliveries have been delayed for some undisclosed reason.

There are two thoughts about this that I have come across:

(1) There is a DME (engine management) problem. As the software is so complex (along with the rest of the car), they have had significant teething problems. Apparently a number of test cars at the Munich press launch "failed" - they simply went into limp mode and the journalists were quickly reassigned into other cars.

(2) There is an issue with crash safety. As JohnH mentioned recently, the whole E60 series did not fare well in the NCAP tests and BMW want to improve matters on the M5. Could it be true that the German safety institute (TuV) has withdrawn safety approval for the M5 until this matter is sorted out?

It could even be a combination of both, or perhaps something different altogether. In any event, it's not very satisfactory and BMW have clearly got something to hide. I'd like to know before I put my money & family in their hands....

Any thoughts?!
 

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I'd go with number 1. I would hate to think that there are any safety issues involving the M5 that would not have been addressed in the standard 5er. It really seems unlikely to me anyway.

The explanation offered to me and it was put forward as "unofficial", was that it had something to do with the SMG software.

I find this story much more plausible than some sort of crash safety issue.

Apparently my January delivery is now knocked back to March/April.
 

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The 5-series only got 3/5 in the EuroNCAP.
But they will test it again soon. If they fail they will have a disaster at hand.
I doubt they are testing the M5 as a specific vehicle.
Searched the web but no more info.

http://www.euroncap.com
http://www.nhtsa.gov/NCAP/Cars/3049.html

The reasons I have heard are due to gear box problems and engine electronics, and this is info from people who have ordered the M5.
 

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Ashok,
What are they telling you about the updated release time in Europe (or UK)? Isn't this what happend to the E46 M3?
 

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i think a production high revving V10 is technically challenging. even their E46 M3's engine were having initial problems. i think they are playing it very safe here to delay until most things are sorted out.
 

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I bet it's the high revving V10 with the SMG III. Launch control runs off it. As this is desgined from the ground up, it will be the model most likely to be hit with technical problems in the short run.
 

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I doubt it is anything mechanical with the engine.

I suspect either computer issues (first DME built in-house and one this complex....) or possible structural changes. Maybe a face lift of some sort?

I almost don't buy the crash safety issue, or at least any changes based upon crash safety. That could possibly open them up to lawsuits from folks with 04 and 05 e60s if that is the case.
 

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From Gustav's interview with BMW M Manager - Bruhnke

"What about the delay in production of the car: Start it in spring 2005. Pre-production for the cirtical parts where we had a bottleneck. In the beginning of the next year we will have a modification in the standard 5-sereis, which we also wanted to incorporate in the M5. New incorporations in the regular 5-series is causing the delays. Also I want to have top qualtiy. We also had oroblems with the test riggs for the gearbox. The testrigg broke, so we had to redesign the testrigg."

If you read into this statement the "critical parts" may very well be the DME issues and the modification to the regular 5 series could be something to do with NCAP tests. It is too early in the life cycle of the E60 for anything major or visual. Obviously there are still issues with this car which cannot be pleasing BMW.
 

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Look at it this way:

You don't want the car until BMW says it is ready. They aren't doing this to piss you off. They aren't doing this for the fun of it. They are doing it because it isn't ready yet. The reason doesn't matter. Cars are a matter of life and death. Would you really want one before it is ready? I didn't think so. For them, it's about money. And as sooner they can get yours, they happier they'll be. So you can be assured that as soon as they possibly can, they will build you your car.

Relax.

The painful time will pass. You WILL get your car. And you'll love it.

Believe me, I get as obsessed about cars as the next guy. Often more. Just ask my wife.

Just my 2 cents.
 

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Terk said:
From Gustav's interview with BMW M Manager - Bruhnke

"What about the delay in production of the car: Start it in spring 2005. Pre-production for the cirtical parts where we had a bottleneck. In the beginning of the next year we will have a modification in the standard 5-sereis, which we also wanted to incorporate in the M5. New incorporations in the regular 5-series is causing the delays. Also I want to have top qualtiy. We also had oroblems with the test riggs for the gearbox. The testrigg broke, so we had to redesign the testrigg."

If you read into this statement the "critical parts" may very well be the DME issues and the modification to the regular 5 series could be something to do with NCAP tests. It is too early in the life cycle of the E60 for anything major or visual. Obviously there are still issues with this car which cannot be pleasing BMW.
does anybody know details about the modification in the 5series starting next year?
 

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Changing the crash performance will not open them up to lawsuits. Read your terms of sale- the mfgr reserves the right to make changes. I think if there was something that is a design defect or flaw thats a different matter though. Talk to Dave Z on how BMW changed the lower bolster on the US cars to improve crash test results.

I think the delay is due to changes to the series car which have been reported- are they crash test changes? cosmetic? maybe the hoped for LCD lights? Hopefully not those silver color lights which no one but me likes (I only like them because they make the car look less Subaru and more Lexus and anything's better than a $90000 sedan that looks like a Subaru!)

Or the delay is due to software issues. Hows this for a theory- although the idrive computers and engine control computers are separate, they still talk with each other and maybe the idrive is bringing down the engine computer? That's exactly the problem they had with the 2002-2003.5 (1st half) 7 series. Nav system crash=engine problems! Now the 7 has something like 5 computers- one for each system and they are by and large protected. They even retrofitted the early cars at their cost. Since I don't like idrive that much, I will say its a conspiracy theory with idrive at the heart of it! ;)

In the end, do not worry about the delay. A delay is a good thing because it means they see a problem and are working to fix it. It would be far more frustrating to have the shiny new M5 sitting out there, immobilized because they cannot figure out the problem for the 10th time and now the object of your autolust has transformed into something you hate and you pine for the good ol days of the E39 M5 :D
 

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The funny thing about this is people are dying to pay out big money to be the first kid on the block with a new toy. Numerous people have said "wait a year and let them sort all the bugs out." You will also find yourself paying less. The fact this car is being delayed shows that there are problems. It's good that they are ready to delay the release to sort out the problems. But I still think the car will have glitches in the first year.
 

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9852147 said:
does anybody know details about the modification in the 5series starting next year?
This will be a major technical update/modification (most of the changes are not viewable) and has nothing to do with crash performance.
Don't want to tell you more at the moment, maybe later... - MB, etc. is with us...sorry! :)


Greetings
 

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LCD lights, you mean LED lights right?

Robert
 

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Discussion Starter #17
sunshine-t said:
This will be a major technical update/modification (most of the changes are not viewable)
Am I correct in assuming the M5 is being delayed to incorporate these modifications from day one?!
 

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Ashok Arora said:
Am I correct in assuming the M5 is being delayed to incorporate these modifications from day one?!
That's what Bruhnke said in his interview with Gustav as well
 

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Spoke to my dealer again today who had been discussing this issue with BMW GB regarding the NCAP Tests. Apparently he said that BMW have accepted that the E60 will only get a 4 star rating and they are not prepared to destroy another 20 cars in order to try and get 5 Stars.

If this is correct and who knows if they are then it looks like the SMG problems could be the reason.
 
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