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Discussion Starter #1
Hi everyone, I'm new here! Need your help :)

My E60 arrived on Monday



I stuck on some random plates and took it for a spin last night -tried all 10 of the SMG shift modes (didn't try S6 - it's not run in yet!) and can't seem to get the car to shift anywhere near as quickly as my RS6 with a standard tiptronic box.

Am I doing something wrong? Maybe the gearbox is running itself in - it definitely feels like all 5 S modes shift at the same, ludicrously slow, speed.

I noticed on the thread about the Hartge M5 testdrive, the author mentioned a very similar problem - really laggy upshifts even in S5!

Anyone?
 

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Yes: S6 with DSC off is a significant diffference. If you dont feel a difference something must be wrong.

You are nto allowed to use the S5 and S6 program when it is not run in however...



  • Between 2000 and 5000 km: Gradually increase the revolutions and the speed, but not over 220 km/h. Do this only briefly, for example during overtaking. Do not use the modes D5, S5 and S6. Do not use Launch Control.
Also, shift speeds might be faster at higher rpm´s, rpms that you arent allowed to use yet ;)
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Gustav said:
Yes: S6 with DSC off is a significant diffference. If you dont feel a difference something must be wrong.

You are nto allowed to use the S5 and S6 program when it is not run in however...


  • Between 2000 and 5000 km: Gradually increase the revolutions and the speed, but not over 220 km/h. Do this only briefly, for example during overtaking. Do not use the modes D5, S5 and S6. Do not use Launch Control.
Also, shift speeds might be faster at higher rpm´s, rpms that you arent allowed to use yet ;)
Aha gotcha - I think that last bit is the bit I was missing. I'll try shifting at 5.5k the maximum allowed revs atm and in S4 and see if that makes a difference!
 

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Ivan said:
Aha gotcha - I think that last bit is the bit I was missing. I'll try shifting at 5.5k the maximum allowed revs atm and in S4 and see if that makes a difference!
I remember from my extended test drive, that I wondered the same thing. No brutal changes even in S6...until you start to get over 6,000. Shift speed seems definitely rev depending - at least in feel
 

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Ivan --

Congrats. What interior combination did you get? Please post photos of the interior and more of the outside. I am strongly leaning toward the interlagos.
 

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You know.. this is EXACTLY what I hated about SMG2. The trans should shift in the same amount of time, regardless of RPM. S5 shifts should take x fractions of a second at 1500 RPM and 8000 RPM... They don't, which makes SMG earn its "jerky" reputation as it is much harder to predict what the shift speed and firmness will be.
 

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vndkshn said:
You know.. this is EXACTLY what I hated about SMG2. The trans should shift in the same amount of time, regardless of RPM. S5 shifts should take x fractions of a second at 1500 RPM and 8000 RPM... They don't, which makes SMG earn its "jerky" reputation as it is much harder to predict what the shift speed and firmness will be.
wow you've really got it in for this gearbox!!! :p

Congrats on the car, and hope you enjoy it a lot!
 

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Disenchantment with the gearbox scares me!

If I thought that the 6 speed would be here anytime soon I would wait for it.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Can't wait to try S6 at 8300 :D

Interior is black perforated with walnut. I specced it using the online car configurator so didn't know how it would look.
I am:1: !

Getting used to the gearbox - a bit of a lift like Tiff said on 5th gear and the changes are smooth. Still horribly slow though!

Will post more pics later.
 

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vndkshn said:
You know.. this is EXACTLY what I hated about SMG2. The trans should shift in the same amount of time, regardless of RPM. S5 shifts should take x fractions of a second at 1500 RPM and 8000 RPM... They don't, which makes SMG earn its "jerky" reputation as it is much harder to predict what the shift speed and firmness will be.
I disagree. When shifting at lower throttle and RPMs, one normally wants the shifts to be as smooth as possible. Only when you have full throttle and are shifting near the red-line do you want the goal to be max performance regardless of brutality. Thus, I would expect the SMG modes to mostly/only effect the speed of full-throttle, high-RPM shifts. I will be interested to discover how closely implemented this rule of thumb in their SMG software.

Tom
 

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Re: Disenchantment with the gearbox scares me!

stominovich said:
If I thought that the 6 speed would be here anytime soon I would wait for it.
At least you'll make thousands in resale by having the SMG. The manual will probably reduce resale by thousands.
 

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bernhtp said:
I disagree. When shifting at lower throttle and RPMs, one normally wants the shifts to be as smooth as possible. Only when you have full throttle and are shifting near the red-line do you want the goal to be max performance regardless of brutality. Thus, I would expect the SMG modes to mostly/only effect the speed of full-throttle, high-RPM shifts. I will be interested to discover how closely implemented this rule of thumb in their SMG software.

Tom
Then what are the reasons for all of the different shift settings? If I want to rev it out and bang the gear, I'll change the settings myself thank you, I don't need the computer to decide that for me. I would rather have it shift the same speed not matter the engine RPM, based on the mode I have selected. For instance, lets say it shifts in 100msec in S5 at maximum RPM. I want it to do that at 1500 as well. Why? So I know that EVERY shift in S5 will take the exact same length of time. That way, I can modulate the accelerator the same way each gear change, and go figure, smooth out the upshifts.

S5 shifts should always be the same speed, regardless of RPM and throttle position. If you want to rev it out and have it shift faster, select S6. Isn't that part of the logic of MDrive?
 

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Yep- and the problem is you are used to controlling both sides (clutch and throttle).

I also think you are used to having more to do in the act of shifting and now you are left to examine: is this really a fast shift? I suggest you try to drive the car without focusing on the act of shifting and see what you think.

Your observations echo some of mine with SMGII.
 

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What nobody in this forum is understanding.. and especially the first time SMG drivers is that the shift speed is based on throttle position AND revs AND speed..


Even in S6 if you just cruising along at 40 kph in 2nd and shift into third at that speed its gona shift at almost the same shift speed as in S1.. because their is no need for the box to hammer into the next gear and the computer measures your throttle position and sees that you are not flooring it and are not moving very fast.. so it adjusts it accordingly..

But now at the same speed and you floor it to say 5500 RPM the (but still with your foot flat.. so essentailly short-shifting) the gear change speed is going to increase significantly.. and if you keep it nailed til 8200 RPM the change will be brutally fast..

So just having it in S5 or S6 for fast shifts will not just increase the shift speed.... lets just say the shift speed is determined by the "ATTITUDE" of the car..


AND... let me just say if you think that RS6 changes faster than an SMG in any gear mode at any throttle position and speed and revs.. there is something wrong with you.. I'll eat my hat if my CSL in auto 1 (D1) going slowly with almost no throttle and low revs changes slower than an RS6 at full gas and speed..

And I'll eat two hats in the case of the M5..
 

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The SMG gearbox is brilliant in every way..


It takes into account evertyhing thats happening and they programed it to shift smooth at low revs and then really bang it when the gears need to be banged thru.. there is no need for a 60 millisecond change at 3000 RPM... thats not how a car drives.. or needs to be driven..


The gearbox is intelligent.. it knows exactly what it needs to do at all times.. even if the driver is demanding 60 milliseconds ****s so low in the revs..
 

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greggb said:
The SMG gearbox is brilliant in every way..

The gearbox is intelligent.. it knows exactly what it needs to do at all times.. even if the driver is demanding 60 milliseconds ****s so low in the revs..
Uh, I believe that was meant to be SHIFTS, unless one is taking a laxative.
 

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Greg,
Thanks for the info. I would like to see what Ivan thinks of SMG after a few more days/ drives.
 

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MEnthusiast said:
I also think you are used to having more to do in the act of shifting and now you are left to examine: is this really a fast shift? I suggest you try to drive the car without focusing on the act of shifting and see what you think.
I did exactly as you suggest, and I was still puzzled by the fact that the car shifted at different speeds, dependant on RPM and throttle (yes greggb, most of us are aware of that). My thought again is that the sequential modes should always shift the same speed, regardless. If I want it to shift harder/faster, I reach down and push the required button(s), not have the car make that decision for me. For that, give me the automatic.

It all goes back to the jerky complaints. If the transmission shifted the same speed EVERY gear change for a given mode, people would find it much easier to modulate the shift and you would likely hear many of those complaints go away. But if I want to scoot past someone then go back to easy driving, I don't want my downshift to take a long time because I am at low RPM, and I don't want my upshift slamming the next gear after I have completed my pass just because I revved to 6k. Especially when you notice I didn't change modes.

IMO, this was a big design flaw in the system.
 
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