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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
550hp/590tq with the optional performance package in the new CLS 63AMG. :eek:oohhh:

This car looks to be every bit as fast as the current CTS-V and much faster than the outgoing car. 7 speed tranny to go along with it, and a stellar 16mpg city /21mpg hwy. To say I'm impressed is an understatement.

Our M5 weighs 250lbs less, and is rated at 12mpg/16mpg making about 45 less hp and 200 less torque.

Go AMG. Way to raise the bar. :cool2:

Can't wait to see what BMW is cooking up, though I am disappointed at BMW's choice to use such a small displacement turbo motor for the M unless is really plans to rev it up.
 

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The new ///M cars shall be a good match for the new AMG cars, if not better.

There shall be no need to rev up the cars as the power shall be available at much lower RPMs.

For reference, just look at the Alpina B5.

Also, the CLS 63 AMG ia about 100 kgs heavier than the current M5 and not the other way around.
 

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This is kinda eye opening. Unladen weight:

2009 BMW 550i (E60): 3946 lbs (manual), 3968 lbs (auto)
2010 BMW 550i (F10): 4343 lbs (manual), 4376 lbs (auto)

The weight gain between generations (E60 to F10) for the 550i model this time around looks to be in excess of 400 lbs.

In terms of the E60 generation, the M5 is rated by BMW to be 4012 lbs unladen, so just a few lbs above the E60 550i.

It'll be interesting to see how the next gen M5 shakes out.
 

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Discussion Starter #6 (Edited)
The F10 M5 shall be heavier than the E60 M5 for sure.

But, it will still be lighter than the AMG cars.
How do you figure it will be lighter than the AMG cars? The 2012 CLS 63 with the new motor weighs 4300lbs. The direct competitor for the M5, the 2011 E63, has a curb weight of 4050. Unless their curb weight jumps massive, which I don't think it will, the 2012 E63 AMG will be lighter than the F10 M5, which will likely weigh at least 4300lbs.
 

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Well, that may be the case, but they're also increasing the base MSRP. The new base MSRP for the CLS63 is 110k in the US. It used to be under 100k. At that price, there are much better, especially looking, alternatives. (The new CLS63 is a step back in terms of styling from the older CLS63.)

Looks like the HP wars are far, far from over.
 

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The new ///M cars will be very similar to these new AMGs....maybe a little too similar :sad3:


afc1

+1


It used to be the M5 was something unusual and special. Now every manufacturer has a high performance Sedan.

I guess it's like several climbers climbing a mountain from different points around the base, as they approach the summit, they get closer and closer together.
 

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This is how I look at it, ///M will still be the king of all everyday driving high performance sedans! You might see some faster and more powerful sedans every once in a while, but for longevity, cost of ownership, and all around performance ///M is still a winner in my book.
I am not an expert in the engine displacement-power-turbo relationship, but I don't think it matters as much these days with available technology and specially after looking at Porsche, and Nissan GTR (Just talking about the smaller displacement engines)! I guess it just comes down to the price, and in GTR case the warranty! I am sure the warranty has never been an issue for BMW, so I guess trying to keep it within a reasonable price range is rather challenging! It is not like BMW can't make a more powerful engine to put in ///M cars!
Looking forward to a big surprise for that F10 M5! The new generation should be sick!
 

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Yikes, it doesn't look that bad either. I love the front end of the car looks great, but the back looks a little weird. I hate the tail lights, ugly!! I know it will be fast in the straight line but I wonder how it will handle, looks pretty boat like.
 

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I don't like the direction that BMW is going with there line of cars. The cars are getting heaver and loseing the performance edge. BMW's aspecaly the M's are drivers cars. I love my m5 for it's hardcore dynamics if I wanted an AMG I whoud have got one
 

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This is how I look at it, ///M will still be the king of all everyday driving high performance sedans
How do you know this when its not even out yet?

Thats just being bias towards the M.
 

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Numbers on paper are just that - numbers on paper! Until you get them side by side on the road it's really hard to tell which car makes the most of its power and gets the most power to the wheels after chassis loss. I have raced both and I think the E55 pulls a little harder than the E63 for example. The E60 M5 walks away from the E63 just a bit from 40mph/45mph and has a steady but slow pull away to 80mph or so when the V10 catches its stride and finally starts to pull away. The E55 on the other hand comes off the line harder than the E60 M5 and nudges it to 60, but 60-90 is pretty well a dead heat and then again around 90-100 the V10 starts to very slowly pull on the E55. That's been my experience around Denver at 5,000 ft elevation where the E55 supercharged engine should have the advantage over naturally aspirated.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:eek:ffice:eek:ffice" /><o:p></o:p>
 

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+1


It used to be the M5 was something unusual and special. Now every manufacturer has a high performance Sedan.

I guess it's like several climbers climbing a mountain from different points around the base, as they approach the summit, they get closer and closer together.
+1

it's like between cross shopping between Gucci, Prada & Ferragamo for loafers, they are pretty much all the same
 

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Numbers on paper are just that - numbers on paper! Until you get them side by side on the road it's really hard to tell which car makes the most of its power and gets the most power to the wheels after chassis loss. I have raced both and I think the E55 pulls a little harder than the E63 for example. The E60 M5 walks away from the E63 just a bit from 40mph/45mph and has a steady but slow pull away to 80mph or so when the V10 catches its stride and finally starts to pull away. The E55 on the other hand comes off the line harder than the E60 M5 and nudges it to 60, but 60-90 is pretty well a dead heat and then again around 90-100 the V10 starts to very slowly pull on the E55. That's been my experience around Denver at 5,000 ft elevation where the E55 supercharged engine should have the advantage over naturally aspirated.ffice:eek:ffice" /><?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com<img src=" /><o:p></o:p>
This is spot on at any elevation. 55's kompressor make it easy to find hp.
 

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How do you figure it will be lighter than the AMG cars? The 2012 CLS 63 with the new motor weighs 4300lbs. The direct competitor for the M5, the 2011 E63, has a curb weight of 4050. Unless their curb weight jumps massive, which I don't think it will, the 2012 E63 AMG will be lighter than the F10 M5, which will likely weigh at least 4300lbs.
I was comparing it with the CSL and the SL.

Time will tell a better tale my friend.
 
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