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Thanks for the tip - I love the SuperSprints, that price from that seller is going to make me reconsider headers...
 

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RennSportSC'dKellenersM5 said:
Holy crap guys....

those who want headers should check out the group buy forum...i dont normally check it out but tonight i thought i would...
I just did!!! Unbelievable, I am calling Bill in the morning before he changes his mind!!! :thumbsup:
Regards,
Jerry
 

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I have the same set sitting here for sale; new. RD Sport tubular headers with Jet-Hot coating. I'll let it go for the same price as the 15+ GB price level if anyone wants them now. Never got around to putting them on, and I think the car may be for sale soon. PM me if anyone is interested. They can be shipped immediately.

'Rocket
 

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After all the wonderful comments here is a response to a few questions that have been asked several times;

The one question that I heard over and over was “what happens if I purchase SuperSprint headers and I want to add additional performance pieces later, can I add them or will I have to remove the SuperSprint headers and install another brand if I select one of their pieces?” Wow, I was surprised that this was even a concern. This told me that somebody is doing one heck of a marketing job around their name.

Folks, let’s be clear on this issue; Dinan, RDS, and yes even www.Discovery-Automotive.com are not only specialty tuning facilities but marketing companies too. Certainly each has developed their own opinions some as different as black and white however when all the dust settles we are truly very similar. The greatest difference to be found will be in the “WHY” something is being used and or marketed. Since I can not speak for them I will share “why we use and or market specific pieces and services”. Very simple, because they work and through the endless selection process we feel that that what we offer is the best. Certainly we incorporate pieces, ideas, and even services from others during the course of our projects however when the need arises and we are unable to find such a product or service we will design, engineer, and produce our own. Now having shared this it is not always the least expensive way but our marketing program dictates results before profit……this is because many years ago I was told that profit follows results…….. Unfortunately many believe that profit can produce results.

We make no grandiose claims, no promises that we can not duplicate, only solid advise based on personal in house experiences.

The SuperSprint headers are a solid (in my opinion the best) foundation for the basis of increasing the performance of your M5/Z8/540. Once the engine is able to breath properly then a litany of other items can be considered. Such as additional exhaust pieces like the SuperSprint X pipe, SuperSprint mufflers, Super Sprint small metal bed cats, cams, improved differential including alternate gearing, velocity stacks/air horns, and software DME tuning that supports your specific personalized performance modifications.

We can and would enjoy assisting you with any of your performance dreams.

There are many companies that solicit a performance growth programs and many even lead you to believe that what they offer are proprietary in nature and must be used in conjunction with only their pieces to be most effective. However in most cases this is simply not the case. As for the value of badges and lapel pins...... to me this is a kin to tee-shirts..... How about a badge that says "Shadow'd"............. I am just kidding.

We have and continue to research what is available and then in real time on cars just like yours we test to validate if in fact measurable gains can be solicited before we do.

Let me restate that the SuperSprint headers are a natural place to begin from which the pieces of the performance puzzle can be assembled. Our goal remains to move forward over time with you and your project so rest assured that you will not find yourself questioning the direction that we suggested.

Take care.

Shadowman
 
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It is nice to see that M5 owners are being offered discounted headers parts from several vendors. More options for less money is always a welcome concept.

However, please also take note, that the design of the Supersprint headers is quite different from the design of the Dinan and RDSport headers, and that if Dinan and RDSport had wanted to, they could have easily incorporated a design similar to Supersprint.

Also, please do not forget that the Supersprint headers will also require the $300+ Supersprint down-pipes, an item which is included at no extra charge by RDSport. Overall, the Supersprint headers a hundreds of dollars more than the RDSport headers.

Cheers, Daniel.
 

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BeastPower said:
It is nice to see that M5 owners are being offered discounted headers parts from several vendors. More options for less money is always a welcome concept.

However, please also take note, that the design of the Supersprint headers is quite different from the design of the Dinan and RDSport headers, and that if Dinan and RDSport had wanted to, they could have easily incorporated a design similar to Supersprint.

Also, please do not forget that the Supersprint headers will also require the $300+ Supersprint down-pipes, an item which is included at no extra charge by RDSport. Overall, the Supersprint headers a hundreds of dollars more than the RDSport headers.

Cheers, Daniel.
Daniel:

On several issues we agree...... for example the fact that the SuperSprint header system is quite different than the Dinan and the RDS headers. The SuperSprint header’s were in fact designed and engineered as a piece that can be successfully used by itself or as one the pieces of a completely tuned exhaust system This was done on purpose and by design. Many lessons have been learned over the years about the use of welded fixed flange and welded collector assemblies. After too many years to remember it not a matter of if it is simply a matter of when the welded collector systems fail and not a matter of if but when the flanges will tweak as the result of the welded collector design. Hot rodder’s and racers alike have been fighting this issue forever. FYI, stainless steel headers do not discourage this problem in fact they are even more prone to these concerns than conventional mild steel headers.

We also agree that the SuperSprint headers can use a mandrel bent connecting pipe to incorporate the SuperSprint headers to the OEM cats. Is this required....no, the piece can be fabricated and installed by any competent muffler shop however this piece makes the installation easier. As for the cost for this piece, it has a suggested retail price of $445.00 however because I see this as a component of the header system and not a secondary profit center it is being offered for $285.00 including all associated hardware, not the over $300.00 you inferred. The RDS headers may come with a similar piece however some including myself would conclude that the cost to produce the RDS headers is substantially less than the SuperSprint header system.

Now as for Dinan and RDS being able to produce the same or similar piece and how they mutually they elected not to..........hum.......this brings me back to my comment in the earlier post....the "why". I shared that I did not know for certain however if I were to guess at this time I think that it has to do with primarily only one thing.......the cost to produce a header system such as SuperSprint’s. The RDS header has been constructed based on the old tried true method used for years and is a very cost efficient way to manufacture headers. The Dinan header has similar attributes but with one major difference. The Dinan header (setting aside for the moment that they are 4-2-1) and then focus only on the number of welds and pieces required to assemble the headers. Each weld insures a hot spot, a potential for leaking, a potential for stress related cracking........ These, as wonderful as they must work are what I would have produced as a mock-up and then cut them apart and mandrel bent all the tubing so as to eliminate most if not all of the welding and associated related stress. I think the Dinan headers are impressive for the laymen to look at however if you understand welding and how metal responds to it you too would have to ask why. Besides, if I were a welder these headers would be a project to construct consistently everytime…..even with a fit gig assembly. Now if I were to speculate further, I would say that Dinan never expected to sell a gross of these headers therefore it was easier to simply hand build one set at a time as needed. So on the issue of whether Dinan and RDS could easily incorporate the SuperSprint design into their system.... the answer is no. The SuperSprint system is much more expensive to produce but because their goal was to produce only the highest quality system ..... SuperSprint uses the same thought process that we do........ profit follows results....... not profit to produce the results.

So if the question is "which system cost more......or is more expensive?" The think that the SuperSprint headers cost less and remain much less expensive as the years go by. Remember, purchasing the headers starts the process, installing them and or having them installed completes it. The SuperSprint headers by design will be much easier to install....... hence the reason that even the initial cost will be lower.

I am sorry to be so wordy but from the emails and PM’s I have received this is the information most are looking for.

As for the present pricing for the SuperSprint system please consider it as I shared an early Christmas, a personal thank you, because even though aggressive deals are found from time to time this one will not last.

Take care.

Shadowman
 

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Shadowman, Do you have a facility that can do the thermal coating on the headers, so they'd arrive ready to install? What cost would this add?
Thanks,
Mike
 

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mottati said:
Shadowman, Do you have a facility that can do the thermal coating on the headers, so they'd arrive ready to install? What cost would this add?
Thanks,
Mike
Cetainly that can be done...... best to call when you have a chance or PM me.

Best regards,

Shadowman
 
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shadowman said:
Daniel:

On several issues we agree...... for example the fact that the SuperSprint header system is quite different than the Dinan and the RDS headers. The SuperSprint header’s were in fact designed and engineered as a piece that can be successfully used by itself or as one the pieces of a completely tuned exhaust system This was done on purpose and by design. Many lessons have been learned over the years about the use of welded fixed flange and welded collector assemblies. After too many years to remember it not a matter of if it is simply a matter of when the welded collector systems fail and not a matter of if but when the flanges will tweak as the result of the welded collector design. Hot rodder’s and racers alike have been fighting this issue forever. FYI, stainless steel headers do not discourage this problem in fact they are even more prone to these concerns than conventional mild steel headers.

We also agree that the SuperSprint headers can use a mandrel bent connecting pipe to incorporate the SuperSprint headers to the OEM cats. Is this required....no, the piece can be fabricated and installed by any competent muffler shop however this piece makes the installation easier. As for the cost for this piece, it has a suggested retail price of $445.00 however because I see this as a component of the header system and not a secondary profit center it is being offered for $285.00 including all associated hardware, not the over $300.00 you inferred. The RDS headers may come with a similar piece however some including myself would conclude that the cost to produce the RDS headers is substantially less than the SuperSprint header system.

Now as for Dinan and RDS being able to produce the same or similar piece and how they mutually they elected not to..........hum.......this brings me back to my comment in the earlier post....the "why". I shared that I did not know for certain however if I were to guess at this time I think that it has to do with primarily only one thing.......the cost to produce a header system such as SuperSprint’s. The RDS header has been constructed based on the old tried true method used for years and is a very cost efficient way to manufacture headers. The Dinan header has similar attributes but with one major difference. The Dinan header (setting aside for the moment that they are 4-2-1) and then focus only on the number of welds and pieces required to assemble the headers. Each weld insures a hot spot, a potential for leaking, a potential for stress related cracking........ These, as wonderful as they must work are what I would have produced as a mock-up and then cut them apart and mandrel bent all the tubing so as to eliminate most if not all of the welding and associated related stress. I think the Dinan headers are impressive for the laymen to look at however if you understand welding and how metal responds to it you too would have to ask why. Besides, if I were a welder these headers would be a project to construct consistently everytime…..even with a fit gig assembly. Now if I were to speculate further, I would say that Dinan never expected to sell a gross of these headers therefore it was easier to simply hand build one set at a time as needed. So on the issue of whether Dinan and RDS could easily incorporate the SuperSprint design into their system.... the answer is no. The SuperSprint system is much more expensive to produce but because their goal was to produce only the highest quality system ..... SuperSprint uses the same thought process that we do........ profit follows results....... not profit to produce the results.

So if the question is "which system cost more......or is more expensive?" The think that the SuperSprint headers cost less and remain much less expensive as the years go by. Remember, purchasing the headers starts the process, installing them and or having them installed completes it. The SuperSprint headers by design will be much easier to install....... hence the reason that even the initial cost will be lower.

I am sorry to be so wordy but from the emails and PM’s I have received this is the information most are looking for.

As for the present pricing for the SuperSprint system please consider it as I shared an early Christmas, a personal thank you, because even though aggressive deals are found from time to time this one will not last.

Take care.

Shadowman
Bill,

I am glad that you and I can present our respective opinions without resorting to negativity. This is rare in the automotive industry!

I respect your opinion, and truely believe that the Supersprint headers are a great product, however, I don't agree that the RDSport or Dinan headers are inferior in any way. Quite the opposite actually, especially when it comes to the Dinan headers, as I am convinced that their 4-2-1 (Tri-Y) design is more appropriate for street driving. I also believe that the Dinan headers are a work of art, and are in no way deficient in their reliability due to the welding, as you propose.

I am a strong proponent of laying out information in a full-disclosure approach to customers, without sales BS. Just facts, and let customers decide for themselves.

Cheers, Daniel.
 

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BeastPower said:
I am glad that you and I can present are respective opinions without resorting to negativity. This is rare in the automotive industry!
Agreed. This is exactly how a detailed technical discussion by different companies should take place. Kudos to both of you!

Just to point out that both BeastPower and Discovery Automotive are also sponsors of this messageboard.
 

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RennSportSC'dKellenersM5 said:
Wheres Brad to chime in on this one since apparently they didnt want to be left out of the header thing
To be clear, the discount on SS was thought of by Supersprint, not evosport or Discovery Automotive. In fact Supersprint kind of played both of our companies and pushed us to offer this deal independently and in parrallel. As such, Bill and I have both independently been working on this deal since last week.

It was not till I went to make our post that I even saw Bill's. Since this time, our two companies have chatted and have seen what has occured. As such, we have set the price to be the same from either evosport or Discovery Automotive.

The goal is to give the M5 enthusiast the BEST header at a price that is compelling so as to keep people from feeling they have to buy a lessor product due to price.

Purchase from evosport or Discovery Automotive, makes really no difference to either of us, the goal was to get the best product out there at the best price. :cheers:

Thanks

Brad
 

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The Dinan M5 header is basically a prototype design that was never optimized/revised for a significant production run. It looks just like any one-off header you'd see in a customizing shop, built for an engine swap or hot rod. This is why it's constructed from a bunch of short pieces fit & welded together. It's also why the price is so high. Every weld encourages fatigue cracking after heat cycling, vibration and years pass, especially in stainless. High RPM, sustained track duty really tests exhaust systems. The harmonics and heat encourage cracking. The welds can also impact flow.

Dinan's primitive M5 header "construction methods" may or may not impact it's durability, mfg consistency & quality...only time will tell. Common sense tells me to choose production headers and exhaust systems with few welds & pieces. Product warranty may cover cracking, but the labor & hassle to replace a set is very significant.
 

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Lscman said:
The Dinan M5 header is basically a prototype design that was never optimized/revised for a significant production run. It looks just like any one-off header you'd see in a customizing shop, built for an engine swap or hot rod. This is why it's constructed from a bunch of short pieces fit & welded together. It's also why the price is so high. Every weld encourages fatigue cracking after heat cycling, vibration and years pass, especially in stainless. High RPM, sustained track duty really tests exhaust systems. The harmonics and heat encourage cracking. The welds can also impact flow.

Dinan's primitive M5 header "construction methods" may or may not impact it's durability, mfg consistency & quality...only time will tell. Common sense tells me to choose production headers and exhaust systems with few welds & pieces. Product warranty may cover cracking, but the labor & hassle to replace a set is very significant.
Thank you for supporting all of my earlier comments...... You are only to correct. They are a welders nightmare but from the uninformed they look wonderful........ however once a person has gone down this road they will never walk it again.

Regards,

Shadoman
 

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Just as a consideration...the supersprint headers have been sold under the Hamann label for almost 3 years. There performance and durability has been proven for a while now.

CW
 

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clauswagner said:
Just as a consideration...the supersprint headers have been sold under the Hamann label for almost 3 years. There performance and durability has been proven for a while now.

CW
Exactly

Which is why from the beginning we shared our experience with the product and the reason we chose it over the other designs.

The key word being install experience

If you take price out of the equation and weigh a product on fit form and function you should come to the obvious conclusion what product is best for you.
 

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I'm curious as to what is involved in installing headers on an M5. It looks like the Supersprint's have a coupler system of some sort allowing the primaries to be installed individually?? If this is the case, how does the coupler system work? Are there header coupler gaskets here as well as collector gaskets that must be replaced?

How about the other header manufacturers? I imagine nearly all require raising the engine or does it have to be removed?
 
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