I just did!!! Unbelievable, I am calling Bill in the morning before he changes his mind!!! :thumbsup:RennSportSC'dKellenersM5 said:Holy crap guys....
those who want headers should check out the group buy forum...i dont normally check it out but tonight i thought i would...
Daniel:BeastPower said:It is nice to see that M5 owners are being offered discounted headers parts from several vendors. More options for less money is always a welcome concept.
However, please also take note, that the design of the Supersprint headers is quite different from the design of the Dinan and RDSport headers, and that if Dinan and RDSport had wanted to, they could have easily incorporated a design similar to Supersprint.
Also, please do not forget that the Supersprint headers will also require the $300+ Supersprint down-pipes, an item which is included at no extra charge by RDSport. Overall, the Supersprint headers a hundreds of dollars more than the RDSport headers.
Cetainly that can be done...... best to call when you have a chance or PM me.mottati said:Shadowman, Do you have a facility that can do the thermal coating on the headers, so they'd arrive ready to install? What cost would this add?
On several issues we agree...... for example the fact that the SuperSprint header system is quite different than the Dinan and the RDS headers. The SuperSprint header’s were in fact designed and engineered as a piece that can be successfully used by itself or as one the pieces of a completely tuned exhaust system This was done on purpose and by design. Many lessons have been learned over the years about the use of welded fixed flange and welded collector assemblies. After too many years to remember it not a matter of if it is simply a matter of when the welded collector systems fail and not a matter of if but when the flanges will tweak as the result of the welded collector design. Hot rodder’s and racers alike have been fighting this issue forever. FYI, stainless steel headers do not discourage this problem in fact they are even more prone to these concerns than conventional mild steel headers.
We also agree that the SuperSprint headers can use a mandrel bent connecting pipe to incorporate the SuperSprint headers to the OEM cats. Is this required....no, the piece can be fabricated and installed by any competent muffler shop however this piece makes the installation easier. As for the cost for this piece, it has a suggested retail price of $445.00 however because I see this as a component of the header system and not a secondary profit center it is being offered for $285.00 including all associated hardware, not the over $300.00 you inferred. The RDS headers may come with a similar piece however some including myself would conclude that the cost to produce the RDS headers is substantially less than the SuperSprint header system.
Now as for Dinan and RDS being able to produce the same or similar piece and how they mutually they elected not to..........hum.......this brings me back to my comment in the earlier post....the "why". I shared that I did not know for certain however if I were to guess at this time I think that it has to do with primarily only one thing.......the cost to produce a header system such as SuperSprint’s. The RDS header has been constructed based on the old tried true method used for years and is a very cost efficient way to manufacture headers. The Dinan header has similar attributes but with one major difference. The Dinan header (setting aside for the moment that they are 4-2-1) and then focus only on the number of welds and pieces required to assemble the headers. Each weld insures a hot spot, a potential for leaking, a potential for stress related cracking........ These, as wonderful as they must work are what I would have produced as a mock-up and then cut them apart and mandrel bent all the tubing so as to eliminate most if not all of the welding and associated related stress. I think the Dinan headers are impressive for the laymen to look at however if you understand welding and how metal responds to it you too would have to ask why. Besides, if I were a welder these headers would be a project to construct consistently everytime…..even with a fit gig assembly. Now if I were to speculate further, I would say that Dinan never expected to sell a gross of these headers therefore it was easier to simply hand build one set at a time as needed. So on the issue of whether Dinan and RDS could easily incorporate the SuperSprint design into their system.... the answer is no. The SuperSprint system is much more expensive to produce but because their goal was to produce only the highest quality system ..... SuperSprint uses the same thought process that we do........ profit follows results....... not profit to produce the results.
So if the question is "which system cost more......or is more expensive?" The think that the SuperSprint headers cost less and remain much less expensive as the years go by. Remember, purchasing the headers starts the process, installing them and or having them installed completes it. The SuperSprint headers by design will be much easier to install....... hence the reason that even the initial cost will be lower.
I am sorry to be so wordy but from the emails and PM’s I have received this is the information most are looking for.
As for the present pricing for the SuperSprint system please consider it as I shared an early Christmas, a personal thank you, because even though aggressive deals are found from time to time this one will not last.
Agreed. This is exactly how a detailed technical discussion by different companies should take place. Kudos to both of you!BeastPower said:I am glad that you and I can present are respective opinions without resorting to negativity. This is rare in the automotive industry!
To be clear, the discount on SS was thought of by Supersprint, not evosport or Discovery Automotive. In fact Supersprint kind of played both of our companies and pushed us to offer this deal independently and in parrallel. As such, Bill and I have both independently been working on this deal since last week.RennSportSC'dKellenersM5 said:Wheres Brad to chime in on this one since apparently they didnt want to be left out of the header thing
Thank you for supporting all of my earlier comments...... You are only to correct. They are a welders nightmare but from the uninformed they look wonderful........ however once a person has gone down this road they will never walk it again.Lscman said:The Dinan M5 header is basically a prototype design that was never optimized/revised for a significant production run. It looks just like any one-off header you'd see in a customizing shop, built for an engine swap or hot rod. This is why it's constructed from a bunch of short pieces fit & welded together. It's also why the price is so high. Every weld encourages fatigue cracking after heat cycling, vibration and years pass, especially in stainless. High RPM, sustained track duty really tests exhaust systems. The harmonics and heat encourage cracking. The welds can also impact flow.
Dinan's primitive M5 header "construction methods" may or may not impact it's durability, mfg consistency & quality...only time will tell. Common sense tells me to choose production headers and exhaust systems with few welds & pieces. Product warranty may cover cracking, but the labor & hassle to replace a set is very significant.
Exactlyclauswagner said:Just as a consideration...the supersprint headers have been sold under the Hamann label for almost 3 years. There performance and durability has been proven for a while now.