[delirium45]

I took a video on the way home. Surprisingly, you can hear what the vibration sounds like, particularly when I put in the clutch or let my foot off the gas. The shifter vibrates at that exact cadence.

BMW E39 M5 vibration noise at 2K RPMs - YouTube

very similar to mine.

 

[mattmor]

I'm afraid I don't have any experience with that noise. Mine was more of a physical vibration - less sound. What does it feel like? Your shifter looks great by the way.

 

[goodmaj]

I'm afraid I don't have any experience with that noise. Mine was more of a physical vibration - less sound. What does it feel like? Your shifter looks great by the way.

Thanks for the props on the shifter! Standard F10 shifter using the e39 boot.

As for what it feels like thru the shifter, say you had a very thin and flat piece of wood and you rested your hand on that wood. Under the wood is a wheel with a very small nub on the outer surface. Put the wheel so it's touching the wood and start spinning the wheel. You can feel the wheel spinning around and when the nub passes the wood you feel a slight bump.

Other thing to note. I've also noticed a whoom-whoom resonating sound as well through the same RPM band (2-2.5K). I was hoping it'd show up in the video but not so much.

 

[mattmor]

Thanks for the props on the shifter! Standard F10 shifter using the e39 boot.

As for what it feels like thru the shifter, say you had a very thin and flat piece of wood and you rested your hand on that wood. Under the wood is a wheel with a very small nub on the outer surface. Put the wheel so it's touching the wood and start spinning the wheel. You can feel the wheel spinning around and when the nub passes the wood you feel a slight bump.

Other thing to note. I've also noticed a whoom-whoom resonating sound as well through the same RPM band (2-2.5K). I was hoping it'd show up in the video but not so much.

I'd put money on center support bearing. Obviously, you'll want to take a peek before ordering anything. I attached a couple documents that could be helpful :biggrin:

 

[goodmaj]

How would I know upon visual inspection that the bearing is/was bad? Wouldn't you have to somehow simulate the driving conditions in order to confirm?

 

[mattmor]

How would I know upon visual inspection that the bearing is/was bad? Wouldn't you have to somehow simulate the driving conditions in order to confirm?

That would probably make it easier to know it's bad. You can still see cracks, etc. from a simple look though. You can also verify if there is butyl installed above the bearing. Mine didn't have it (or the sound at the time), but I put the butyl strip in anyways with new driveshaft. It could be as simple as loose nuts. I think I remember someone saying that was all that was wrong with theirs. The trouble is that you have to remove exhaust and heat shields to see/fix it.

 

[68FB]

A couple of months ago I started noticing a vibration coming up through the shifter at around 2000-3000 RPMs. Since then I've replaced the tires (needed to go anyway) and the vibration is still there. The problem presents itself when the car is up to temperature and is under load. If the car is dead cold I get nothing. It's most predominant in 6th gear right at 2000 RPMs but is there in 3rd-5th as well. It's probably there in 1st and 2nd as well but it's harder to pinpoint. The tempo of the vibration appears constant no matter what gear I'm in.

I think what a lot of people are missing here is, based on the description above, the noise is engine speed related, not drive shaft speed related. The OP hears the noise at 2000-3000 rpm no matter what gear he is in. So I wouldn't worry about driveline stuff, I'd be concentrating on engine speed stuff, like those pesky oil filter mounts. From the video, it's also very dependent on engine load, but not likely to be from the engine itself, IMO, so maybe a transmission bearing on the input shaft (that whoom-whoom sound on the video is quite common when a ball/roller bearing is going bad). Or the exhaust mounts (engine torqued over under load bringing exhaust closer to the support). Or the engine mounts.

OP, if you have an hour or two to spare, read this. It describes just about every cause for noise and vibration on these cars. Spoiler alert - the OP never does get to the bottom of it.


http://www.m5board.com/vbulletin/e39-m5-e52-z8-discussion/132848-anyone-solve-3k-vibration.html

 

[goodmaj]

I think what a lot of people are missing here is, based on the description above, the noise is engine speed related, not drive shaft speed related. The OP hears the noise at 2000-3000 rpm no matter what gear he is in. So I wouldn't worry about driveline stuff, I'd be concentrating on engine speed stuff, like those pesky oil filter mounts. From the video, it's also very dependent on engine load, but not likely to be from the engine itself, IMO, so maybe a transmission bearing on the input shaft (that whoom-whoom sound on the video is quite common when a ball/roller bearing is going bad). Or the exhaust mounts (engine torqued over under load bringing exhaust closer to the support). Or the engine mounts.

OP, if you have an hour or two to spare, read this. It describes just about every cause for noise and vibration on these cars. Spoiler alert - the OP never does get to the bottom of it.


http://www.m5board.com/vbulletin/e39-m5-e52-z8-discussion/132848-anyone-solve-3k-vibration.html

I actually read through that thread quite a bit before posting. It was the fact that he never got down to the bottom of it that was discouraging.

I actually replaced the oil filter mounts a couple of months ago. The whoom-whoom has been there for a few months and was happening before the vibration started happening. Admitting my lack of transmission knowledge, would that bearing be inside the transmission or external (I suspect inside).

I'm going back to see Indy #2 next Tuesday to see if they have any ideas.....perhaps I'll have them check the engine and exhaust mounts as well.

 

[68FB]

Even though you replaced the oil filter mounts, check the banjo bolt on the filter housing close to the inner fender is not touching the fender. I had to pull the filter off to the side and massage the inner fender gently with a ball peen hammer to get some clearance.

Yes, the two bearings that support the input shaft are inside the transmission. If they are the cause of the noise, you could just learn to live with it because the bearings will probably last for years.

I have the noise and shifter vibration at 2500 rpm but not the whoom-whoom. Try pushing the shifter forward gently if in 2nd or 4th or backwards if in 3rd or 5th. Do you feel the vibration a lot more? I do, but I don't know what it means.

I changed the engine, transmission, and exhaust mounts but no difference. Like nightkrawler says in the War and Peace thread, it may be just a characteristic of the car.

Long shot, but it could be VANOS. Bad VANOS on one bank would cause different combustion pressures from the other bank and unbalance.

And as far as the noise is concerned, check for exhaust leaks around the header/pipe flanges and splits in the seams just in front of the cats.

If your indy fixes it, let us know.

 

[mattmor]

Listen to 68FB. The fact that it sounds like a wheel turning (certain frequency) doesn't necessarily rule out areas that aren't usually associated with "wheel turning."

 

[goodmaj]

This morning on my way to work there was traffic. I noticed that it happens in 1st gear as well and I could replicate it at will.

Also, when I was at a light I decided to rev the engine with the clutch in. I don't know if I'm just hypersensitive to the issue, but I would say the vibration was definitely there, at the same cadence, albeit muted. I pulled into the garage, put it in N, and took this video. If you compare the cadence heard here to the cadence in my earlier video, they appear identical.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JlIUv33krzQ

I'm having a bit of a hard time with the idea it could be one of the mounts. It would seem to me that if it was a mount(s) there wouldn't be a very regular cadence to the vibration, it would instead be a bit more random?

I pulled slightly back on the shifter while in 3rd/5th and slightly forward while in 2nd/4th. No appreciable difference in the vibration.

I'm wondering if it's time to focus on the engine as the source vs. the driveline......

 

[delirium45]

thanks for taking the time to make and post the videos, once i get my gauge cluster back i'll do the same.

 

[goodmaj]

After thinking more about my new discovery, I went downstairs with a friend and took the attached. Car was still a little warm, about half the lights are on. There's a couple of spots where you can hear the vibration (though at this point I'm not sure if I can keep calling it a vibration). That is, you can hear something at the same cadence as the vibration. At the 11-13 second mark you can hear it slightly. The 29-35 second mark is a little more pronounced. VANOS?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NoO1GId0wpQ

 

[JoeFromPA]

Ok so I heard it in the 29-35 second range and I'm not gonna be very helpful. The fact it emerges within distinct RPM ranges, isn't constant, happens when revving in neutral...

Real PITA.

but it does narrow it down alot. You can pretty much remove steering/driveshaft/transmission from the list. And to me, this sounded like something with a bearing that's failing.

A relatively simple, cheap, and DIY friendly thing I'd recommend is to take off your pulleys and inspect them and then re-grease them. I mention this because it's so easy, they can be the source of weird noises when they dry out, and it's helpful to eliminate things AND do something useful.

IMHO, do a quick fan-clutch test to make sure it's out too. I doubt that's the case, but again it's so easy and those videos make it impossible to determine direction of sound. Why miss something easy in the hunt for something difficult?

After those easy things you are getting into VANOS/Timing Chain Noises based upon what I heard in the video between 27-35 seconds in.

last real question: Did whomever was revving the engine have the clutch pedal depressed to the floor during this?

 

[goodmaj]

Joe! Great to hear from you, thanks for chiming in.

Based on the fact that the cadence of "vibration" at idle is the same as when driving, I'm inclined to agree with you that it isn't a drivetrain issue. The noise is certainly louder when driving but of course there's more load on the engine. By the same token, I'd be really, really, surprised if the fan clutch would produce the problem. First, it's pretty cold here in STL so I'm not even sure how much the fan is spinning up anyway. Plus, something so small, producing something so distinct....seems like a longshot. THAT SAID, when I was at Indy #1 last week getting new thrust rods and rear upper arms, they did say my fan clutch was leaking a bit and advised a swap when the weather got warmer.

When my friend was revving the engine, I'm pretty sure the clutch pedal was not in, but I will ask him.

 

[JoeFromPA]

I threw fan clutch out there because I can't tell direction of sound and what not and it's really simple to test and a rotational part. Do the newspaper (or bare hand) test to see if it's failed or not. If it passes, great. If it fails, you need to replace it anyway.

 

[goodmaj]

And just for good measure here's another one of the engine when it was up to temperature. Will be doing the newspaper test.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5zgBtkK1-2c

 

[delirium45]

i require a little edification here... what is this 'newspaper test' ?

 

[goodmaj]

Lots of posts on this both on this board and other places. Basically, when the car is up to running temp, i.e., gauge is in the middle, take a piece of rolled up newspaper and slowly stick it in the fan. If the fan is stopped by the newspaper, you need a new fan clutch.

 

[delirium45]

Lots of posts on this both on this board and other places. Basically, when the car is up to running temp, i.e., gauge is in the middle, take a piece of rolled up newspaper and slowly stick it in the fan. If the fan is stopped by the newspaper, you need a new fan clutch.

ah okay, the test is easy enough to understand, just never heard it referred to as 'newspaper test'... maybe fan clutch viscosity test