BMW M5 Forum and M6 Forums banner

1 - 20 of 49 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
71 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Hey all! I have been reading through endless Vanos threads on the forum, but haven't seen an issue quite like this; I'd like to ask your advice.

I have a 2000 M5 with 70k miles, and it has been running flawlessly for 2.5 years. I have had a CEL light on for a few months, but no issue with running. I also get a slight rattle during cold start, but once the pressure builds up in the chain tensioner, it quickly dissipates. Just recently, it began starting hard, mainly when warm, like the vanos is not returning the timing to optimal starting timing. I haven't witness a hard, cold start yet. It is setting a couple codes related to Bank1 cam timing.

My hubby owns an Indy shop, but doesn't want to get into the fine art of Vanos timing. I am a mechanical engineer, and would have no problems with many of the minor repairs, like replacing the timing chain tensioner (which I should have done a long time ago). I know these are bad from my old M3 days, when I replaced it twice on my E30 M3.

One other thing I have noticed on this car, is the tone from the exhaust is deeper while driving, sometimes. I like that sound better, but the car only achieve that about once every five trips or so. Is there some exhaust valve that allows this to happen? Am I missing something?

Thanks for the excellent M5 board! I will continue to pour through previous posts. Any help would be appreciated.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,531 Posts
F the exhaust sound deep and rumbling like an American muscle, it usually points Crank position sensors or vanos. You may want to do a vanos test to figure out what's going on. My exhaust was less deep sounding when I had someone to do vanos solenoids refreshment. I would replace the guides to be sure it's not affecting the timing.

Bank one should be on right side.

I meant camshaft position sensors (2 intake and 2 exhaust).
 
  • Like
Reactions: M3shelly

·
Registered
Joined
·
71 Posts
Discussion Starter #4
Thank you DeafM5. While pouring through the posts on Vanos systems, I hear everyone mentioning this Vanos test, but haven't yet found the actual procedure. The hubby has a Snap-On analyzer. I have only used it to check the codes. I didn't dig deeper to see if it performed the Vanos test.

Is the vanos test done electronically, with a specific brand of analyzer?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
268 Posts
The exhaust note being deeper, is the camshaft position sensor. Its best if you would replace all 4, 1 intake and 1 exhaust camshaft sensors on each bank. Make sure to go with OEM sensors, cheap knocks fail quickly. Learned my lesson lol

The vanos noise is the oil building up because the pressure accumulator is not holding pressure while the car is off. Since yours is a 2000 model it is the non-eletric valve accumulator. It's a bit costly repair I believe $250-$300 for the accumulator, but pretty strait forward install.


Most of the time when the crank shaft position sensor is faulty, the car won't even crank.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
71 Posts
Discussion Starter #6
Great news! And great info! I am sitting here fretting about a massive, costly repair.

Now, back to the Vanos test; I just saw an embedded video on another thread where the PCB holding four solenoids was remove from the car, and power applied to various points to ensure solenoids are all active. Is this test vanos test everyone's been talking about? The reason I'm skeptical is 'cause some people were reporting back numbers, in the form of output voltages, after completing this test. If the solenoid test is accurate, I am assuming these people are reporting back CPS feedback voltages.

Thanks again MS39!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,531 Posts
Thank you DeafM5. While pouring through the posts on Vanos systems, I hear everyone mentioning this Vanos test, but haven't yet found the actual procedure. The hubby has a Snap-On analyzer. I have only used it to check the codes. I didn't dig deeper to see if it performed the Vanos test.

Is the vanos test done electronically, with a specific brand of analyzer?
It is done electronically. I am not sure if snap on can do it but try to see if you can find that function on your snap on.
 
  • Like
Reactions: M3shelly

·
Registered
Joined
·
71 Posts
Discussion Starter #8
Great. Thanks!

I will report back before the end of the weekend on whether the Snap-On has this function. I highly doubt it though, since we had to purchase additional software/hardware with the Snap-On scanner just to use it with Bimmers.

If it isn't a big deal to remove the PCB holding the solenoids, and check it by applying VDC to solder joints on the board, I would be up for that method (as long as the labor to remove that board isn't four hours!).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,531 Posts
Great. Thanks!

I will report back before the end of the weekend on whether the Snap-On has this function. I highly doubt it though, since we had to purchase additional software/hardware with the Snap-On scanner just to use it with Bimmers.

If it isn't a big deal to remove the PCB holding the solenoids, and check it by applying VDC to solder joints on the board, I would be up for that method (as long as the labor to remove that board isn't four hours!).
If you and your husband had to buy extra things for snap on for bmws, I am sure it will have that function. If not, it is always a good idea to replace those aging rubber gaskets and clean up if they are clogged.
 
  • Like
Reactions: M3shelly

·
Registered
Joined
·
71 Posts
Discussion Starter #10
I am trying to avoid tearing off the entire front of the engine. I have researched Dr. Vanos' kits for refreshing to vanos seals a couple years ago, but he didn't have the kit I needed at the time. I think that was for my 540i before I mis-shifted the thing on a highway off-ramp, and wrecked the engine by floating the valves. That one runs great now with a new(used) engine.

I have also read the manual on vanos removal, and the photos are vague, but it appears that the entire timing chain is exposed. That would be great if the guides were bad, kill two birds, but I can't hang up a rack in the hubby's shop for > 2 days (or so).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
457 Posts
Vanos test is a software function of the BMW DIS44 tool you run on a laptop. its based on SCO Unix so has to run in an emulator/virtual machine on Windows. it also needs a specific BMW cable. DIS originally ran on dedicated hardware for BMW dealers and is now considered ancient in IT terms. it was updated to v57 however this does not do all the same tests, specifically the vanos one iirc.

basically the software instructs the vanos to do different things and times the response and how long it takes the oil to drain and allow the vanos to return to 'home position'. records angles reached with cams using cam and crank sensor inputs etc. its a bit hit and miss - my car fails test on both banks despite new cps and seals, but still goes very well. the test is very, very fussy down to tiny tolerances.

the sw can be downloaded for free however its a faff to get setup + you need cable. this cable can also be used with other bmw tool Inpa which queries other modules in the car. this can be installed directly on various ver of Windows.

Simon
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
457 Posts
forgot to add - a friends shop has snapon diag tools and limited bmw specific support available beyond usual stuff. BMW software is old but then so are these cars! the software functionality is impressive and of course specific to this generation of bmw tech.

Simon
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
71 Posts
Discussion Starter #13
Thanks Curtis. If the special cable connects to the round diag under the hood (or even the OBDII), I have that with the Snap-On. The Snap-On connects to that via a standard 15-pin dsub, which could easily be reproduced and modified to adapt to the DIS need.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
186 Posts
Bank 2 is always US driver's side.

I think solenoid boards are interchangeable so you can move the board originally in Bank 1 to Bank 2 and vice versa. In the case the VANOS board is the problem, then the fault codes should also move from Bank 1 to Bank 2.

Installation of the updated Accumulator equipped with electronic shut-off valve is "bolt-on" of the mechanical parts if your car is early facelift (09/2000 - 11/2000). Cars with factory dates 8/2000 or earlier you need also wiring and DME programming.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
71 Posts
Discussion Starter #15 (Edited)
I will have to confirm, since I can't keep the 540i and M5 straight in my head, but I *think* the production date is in early 2000; 6/2000 pops in my mind for some reason.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
71 Posts
Discussion Starter #16
Yep; it's an early 2000. I have the four new CPS's on order from the dealer, along with the timing chain tensioner piston replacement. I will try the Snap-On diagnostic tool this weekend, and report back on the functionality regarding Vanos tests and such. I will also look into swapping the solenoids. If that's not too big of a deal (i.e., not a full day's work), I will try that too right away, and see if the codes change, bank-to-bank.

Thanks everyone for their help on this. I love this car so much, I would hate to think of selling. Just reading some of the horror stories on this site, I am considering it though. I have an old M3 that needs a revival - those were so much simpler to work on.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,496 Posts
Shelly,

The "vanos test" you watched online was a solenoid test, checking to see if the solenoids are working or if they're clogged, etc.
The actual VANOS test is exactly what Simon said, it is electronically done with a BMW diagnostics software called GT1 or DISv44 (interchangeable names, achive the same sh!t). You can get the softwares online, but yes, the install is a huge PITA. However, I have recently installed BMW's newest software which should have everything in all the old ones and it runs much much faster than GT1 because it doesn't need to run in a virtual machine (VMWare).
I'm having trouble connecting it to MY personal car, but it ran just fine on the other BMWs I scanned.

SOOOOOOO....replace your CPS's and I'll report back once I get the new software running on my car and can confirm that it has the VANOS test. Then I'll show you what to do to get it. Regardless, the BMW softwares will be of much more use than your Snap-On tool due to being extremely specific in diagnosing your car and giving you proper torque specs for each nut, etc.

You'll need to buy these for your car:
For BMW Inpa Ediabas K Dcan USB Interface OBDII OBD2 Car Diagnostic Tool Cable | eBay (will need a very small soldering modification)
Diagnostic Connector Tool Adapter Cable for BMW 20 Pin to OBD2 Female 16pin New | eBay (because you have a pre-facelift)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
186 Posts
I would say it is nearly essential to order following items if the current ones in your car are still from the factory:

11367830828 x 8 (Solenoid O-Rings)
11367830829 x 8 (Solenoid O-Rings)
11361406838 x 2 (VANOS Cover gaskets)

The original ones are brittle and easily break during removal/installation of the solenoid boards.
 
  • Like
Reactions: M3shelly

·
Registered
Joined
·
71 Posts
Discussion Starter #19 (Edited)
Thanks so much TheShafro and ea_M5! I will follow your advice. This forum has been a god-send, and I wish I could help everyone out as much as I'm being helped.

Hey, if anyone is in the area of S.E. Wisconsin, I also own a small business using my husband's shop, tinting cars. The addition of even a light film really makes these cars look fantastic. If you're intersted, let me know, and I will give you more information. I typically give people a 10% discount just for paying in cash, but I will extend that to 15% (which is the discount I give to auto dealerships for high quantity work) if you are from a member of this forum. I have been doing that for >25 years and only use a lifetime warranty, high-quality film, so I can guarantee a nice, professional job. I would like to help others out as much as possible, since you are spending time helping me out on this (among other) issue.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,116 Posts
You are going about this backwards. Your CEL is on, this is step one, read the codes and report them. It is undoubted that a single exhaust CPS is causing this. It is also true that all of what is mentioned is good standard practice, but approaching auto problems without reading the codes? The DME is the smartest adviser .
Here is the vanos test, how we interpret it not how to do it. Since we have trouble interpreting it all that is important is you don't fail it.
http://www.m5board.com/vbulletin/e39-m5-e52-z8-discussion/372465-reading-vanos-test-results-specifications.html?highlight=vanos+test

Your Snap on will not do the vanos test. I paid $2500 for extra updates to read everything on a BMW including all diagnostic test, on a scanner that already cost $4000. Did not does not work. They did take all of that back but not until court. The test is the last thing to worry about.
Get the codes read.
 
1 - 20 of 49 Posts
Top