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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Wrapping up timing chain, guides, vanos refresh and rattle (with Beisan seals) job. Checking timing marks at full retard after a couple of full rotations and everybody is dead on except for bank 1 exhaust just by a tad. Question is, is it a tad too much or within tolerance.
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Note sure if I'm the best, or worst person to comment on this issue right now.... but

It looks like this could be caused by slack in the vanos chains. In your photos the chains look original and the cam sprockets also look original with some wear developing between the teeth. I can't comment on how many degrees of advance/retard are safe, but this looks like the cause of the additional travel

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The simple answer to this question is whether or not you can insert the cam locking pin.
 
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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
I can not insert the cam lock. What I have noticed it that the Bank 1 exhaust cam is tightening the drive chain slack completely as I bring it to a full retard position. The piston looks to be fully retracted and is the same depth as the Bank 2 when I removed the caps to check. Seems there should be some slack on the chain as there is on bank 2.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Went back in and re-did the CCW crank turn before tightening the cam bolts (to compensate the play in the helical gears) procedure and that looks to have brought the marks in line. I marked the cam hub to see the difference the adjustment made. I can make bank 2 intake and exhaust go through the vanos piston travel fairly easily using the 27 mm wrench. Bank 1 has quite a bit of stiction to overcome before they move. I'll be really honest here, this engine scares the crap out of me.
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@twacker
Are you saying the cam is rotated as far as it will go in the CCW direction?

From your photo it looks like it was able to rotate too-far in the CCW direction, indicating the vanos chain might have worn down creating extra slack.

I just looked at the photos of my bank 1 exhaust cam and the lobe in your photo, for cyl 1, looks like it's closer to the 12 o'clock position than mine.

Can you take a more overhead picture of the TDC notch?
 

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Seems there should be some slack on the chain as there is on bank 2.
Interesting but I thought no, still not sure what is correct. I did my timing extravaganza a long time ago and did it a few times because then the info was not detailed. What I found when I opened it up was a hidden mark on one bank and the other marks in various positions. I will give the punch line now, all things said and done this work made no difference in my car because the vanos is fully capable of adjusting the cams to the correct position. Might start a tad faster measured in 10ths of a second.
I redid things after X miles driven because in my head everything seemed to rely on chain tension and I was not sure if I even had any, and knew that I would not have the tension that the car has running with the oil pressure tensioners working. Fear of having done it wrong and unanswered questions made me open it again. Car drove fine though. IIRC third time was the final one and I noticed every time I looked at things the timing was just slightly different. My last time had a brand new main tensioner and I made up some clamping jigs to make the chains as tight as they would be running. Satisfied my urges and I have tried to forget the whole ordeal.
 

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Here is a chain with 320,000 miles on it next to a new one. It's possible that it's even closer to the same length. Just depends on getting it lined up.
 
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Sorry for the belated response, but the easy and right thing to do in that circumstance is loosen the three visible vanos bolts and put a 27mm crescent wrench on the flat of the cam and move the cam into the correct position, then pin the cams and torque the vanos bolts. Then remove the pins and spin the motor around a couple of time to TDC firing at cylinder 1 and see if the timing marks line up. Sometimes have to do this a couple of times to get it perfect. Sometimes, don't have to do it at all.

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Sailor, I understand the feelings express in your post all too well! My general philosophy is: Before torquing the vanos bolts, put the motor in as close a state as possible to what it will be when running. So: Install solenoid board in vanos, leave the end caps on the vanos, install the chain tensioner, THEN pre-tension the springs and install the vanos. Although I always crank the engine backward to take up the chain slack to be careful, when following this procedure, with a new chain, there is very little if any slack to be taken up.

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Vanos Action This is the Vanos action on Bank 2. Pistons go through their travel with ease. Bank 1 requires a lot of effort on the exhaust side and barely moves on the intake. Is Bank 2 what I need to get Bank 1 to operate like?
 

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Vanos Action This is the Vanos action on Bank 2. Pistons go through their travel with ease. Bank 1 requires a lot of effort on the exhaust side and barely moves on the intake. Is Bank 2 what I need to get Bank 1 to operate like?
That's just not a substantive diagnostic test. IMHO it says absolutely nothing. That said, if when the vanos is removed and you manually are pushing the pistons with the splined gears in and out of the vanos, there is a significant difference in the resistance level, I would advise replacing your seals with the Beisan kit. When replaced, they take a little bit of effort to move, and that's what you want. It means they are sealing. Conversely, you shouldn't have to muscle the Hell out of the thing to get it to move either. Either way, replacing the seals is the remedy.

--Peter
 

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That's just not a substantive diagnostic test. IMHO it says absolutely nothing. That said, if when the vanos is removed and you manually are pushing the pistons with the splined gears in and out of the vanos, there is a significant difference in the resistance level, I would advise replacing your seals with the Beisan kit. When replaced, they take a little bit of effort to move, and that's what you want. It means they are sealing. Conversely, you shouldn't have to muscle the Hell out of the thing to get it to move either. Either way, replacing the seals is the remedy.

--Peter
Came across this video of someone installing the Beisan kit, not really a DIY, but visuals always help clear up some of the wording on the Beisan website and DIY's in general:

 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
That's just not a substantive diagnostic test. IMHO it says absolutely nothing. That said, if when the vanos is removed and you manually are pushing the pistons with the splined gears in and out of the vanos, there is a significant difference in the resistance level, I would advise replacing your seals with the Beisan kit. When replaced, they take a little bit of effort to move, and that's what you want. It means they are sealing. Conversely, you shouldn't have to muscle the Hell out of the thing to get it to move either. Either way, replacing the seals is the remedy.

--Peter
Thanks Peter.
This was after timing chain, guides, vanos refresh and rattle repair (all with Beisan/OEM BMW parts). New to the S62, probably being too cautious but it just doesn't feel right on Bank 1. I am going to pull the Vanos unit back off and try again.
 

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Thanks Peter.
This was after timing chain, guides, vanos refresh and rattle repair (all with Beisan/OEM BMW parts). New to the S62, probably being too cautious but it just doesn't feel right on Bank 1. I am going to pull the Vanos unit back off and try again.
Hmmmm. That concerns me. I would pull the pistons and check the Beisan seals to ensure that none of them was twisted and that each of them properly seated. That isn't entirely easy to accomplish. I've done it a million times now, but the first time was a bit hair raising, stretching the PTFE outer seals just enough to install, but not so much as to permanently deform them, then properly squeezing them back into shape.

--Peter
 

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Came across this video of someone installing the Beisan kit, not really a DIY, but visuals always help clear up some of the wording on the Beisan website and DIY's in general:

NB: He does NOT leave the splined gears in the hubs to do this. That is correct. Don't ever leave the splined gears in the hubs. 9/10 times, doing so results in screwed up timing. The right way to do this is to pull the splined gears with the vanos and reinstall them with the vanos. You should be changing the vanos diaphragm springs when you do this anyway, which requires that you pull the hubs off, which in turn requires that you pull the spline gears out with the vanos.

--Peter
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Hmmmm. That concerns me. I would pull the pistons and check the Beisan seals to ensure that none of them was twisted and that each of them properly seated. That isn't entirely easy to accomplish. I've done it a million times now, but the first time was a bit hair raising, stretching the PTFE outer seals just enough to install, but not so much as to permanently deform them, then properly squeezing them back into shape.

--Peter
I went back in and verified/recorded the piston travel. It feels the same on both banks. Piston Movement

I also spent more time on making sure I was in the sweet spot on the helical gears. The intake side was off by one position. It goes in smooth on one I was on but there was one tooth further it could go before it goes to no-figgin-way zone on the tooth after. If you follow me. What would be the outcome if she were started on tooth off of the sweet spot?

At any rate. She consistently lines up within the marks on all cams when brought into initial position after more rotations than I care to count. Any other words of wisdom or things I can check before I start final re-assembly?

Thanks for sharing your time and talent.

John
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Any last comments on this one before I put her back together?
 
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