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Barry Lausch said:
Vanos pump has been replaced, No workee! Now we replaced the oil accumulator for the vanos system. I'll keep you posted...........today is day 19. can anyone spell LEMON.
Just read all your posts. I'm having the same problem with my '07 M5 manual. I'm going on week 11 with my car sitting in the service dept. at BMW Manhattan. First they told me that they weren't manufacturing and stocking the parts yet (they are pulling the parts from M5s on the assembly line; am I to assume that they will not have the same problem?), then when they got the parts and attempted to repair the car, they noticed that the faulty pump had caused additional damage. Now waiting for the second set of parts to come in and for those to be installed.

I had the car for about a month before the problem came up. Now it's been out of my hands for nearly 3 months. BMW customer relations has basically nothing of value to say when I call to complain.
 

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pcl1977 said:
Cant you forward this thread to a BMWNA rep? i dont see why not
What happened to the guy who always posted "I'm with BMW NA and will pass along your message. Someone will be in touch with you"? Never around when you need him.

I feel for you. I would certainly talk to a lemon law attorney cause there is something seriously wrong with the car you got. Wishing you the best of luck for a positive outcome.
 

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Discussion Starter #25
Barry Lausch said:
Vanos pump has been replaced, No workee! Now we replaced the oil accumulator for the vanos system. I'll keep you posted...........today is day 19. can anyone spell LEMON.
The service manager left a message for me yesterday in regard to the aforementioned vanos oil accumulator patch and went on to say that prior to this repair he drove the car about 40 miles to create the fault light scenario. Wonderful. (By the way the only reason he called me is because I bitched to the owner that this guy does not communicate. When it comes to a 100K investment I want to know what's going on, good, bad or ugly).

I arrive home last evening and my youngest son asks if I got my car back to which I replied NO. He proceeds to tell me that he saw my car on the interstate moving at an aggressive rate of speed. He knows cars (probably better than me) and he knows my car even better Sepang Bronze with tinted glass. Location and time check with my Service Managers' little expedition. I'm beginning to lose my brand loyalty and my patience.
 

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Discussion Starter #26
Well guys here's the latest. We rplaced the vanos pump, no workee. We replaced the oil accumulator in the vanos system, that no workee. Now we have not only the front suspension, oil pan and related hardware disassembled, now we're tearing the front of the engine apart to check the internal vanos oil supply lines to the top of the engine. I'm in a state of shock, I still don't believe this is really happening. If it wasn't so serious it would be hilarious.

Anyway, I told the service manager when there all done experimenting with my vehicle just go ahead and button her up, give her a good wash and put her in the showroom.
 

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I wouldn't stop complaing to BMWUSA. They have to know what you complaint is. Keep on them about this, tell them you exactly what your thinking. I would get an attorney who specializes in Lemon Law for the state of, PA.
 

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Barry Lausch said:
Well guys here's the latest. We rplaced the vanos pump, no workee. We replaced the oil accumulator in the vanos system, that no workee. Now we have not only the front suspension, oil pan and related hardware disassembled, now we're tearing the front of the engine apart to check the internal vanos oil supply lines to the top of the engine. I'm in a state of shock, I still don't believe this is really happening. If it wasn't so serious it would be hilarious.

Anyway, I told the service manager when there all done experimenting with my vehicle just go ahead and button her up, give her a good wash and put her in the showroom.
Sounds like the thing to do -- don't you have an 08 on order? Hard to believe you get to stumble through a disaster scenario on an 06 and an 07 at your great expense while BMW does field engineering work.

Clearly you are past all limits on lemon law claims (at least here in NC after 20 days in the shop, your car would qualify), so BMW NA should step up here and make a major deal with you on the 2008. Personally, given what you've been through now on your second E60 M5, I believe they should simply provide the new 2008 with no money changing hands. If they didn't come close to meeting that objective, I would just lemon the car on them and move on to a 997TT -- they have a chance here to make things as right as they can be, and they should step up to the plate and deliver.

Given that you are providing them with great knowledge they apparently didn't have about their product all at your continued expense, I would think a personal phone call to Tom Purves requesting their complete assistance on the 2008 deal would be in order.

Good luck and keep us posted.

Chuck
 

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Discussion Starter #29
As of today the service manager claims that the problem appears to be on of the internal vanos supply lines..........a braided high pressure hydraulic hose that was leaking. This reminds me of the external vanos line that caused so much trouble such a short time ago. If this is the cause it certainly has become a very, very expensive part. We shall see.

As to the PA state lemon law statute the short version goes like this.....Loss of thirty days of non continuous use and/or three unsucessful attempts to fix the same problem. Today is day 20. It ain't over yet.
 

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Barry Lausch said:
As of today the service manager claims that the problem appears to be on of the internal vanos supply lines..........a braided high pressure hydraulic hose that was leaking. This reminds me of the external vanos line that caused so much trouble such a short time ago. If this is the cause it certainly has become a very, very expensive part. We shall see.

As to the PA state lemon law statute the short version goes like this.....Loss of thirty days of non continuous use and/or three unsucessful attempts to fix the same problem. Today is day 20. It ain't over yet.
When I was ready to lemon a 2004 V70R, I found out that the sum total of shop days in the first two years was what was counted to meet the 20 day requirement. So if the car has any prior shop visits (including all not related to this specific problem in NC anyway), you can add those days to the total requirement. Volvo ended up making a too good to be true offer to buy a 2005 V70R, so I didn't lemon the car btw (of course we sold the 05 after 11 months since it was a POS too, but that's a long story).

Chuck
 

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Discussion Starter #31
CSBM5 said:
When I was ready to lemon a 2004 V70R, I found out that the sum total of shop days in the first two years was what was counted to meet the 20 day requirement. So if the car has any prior shop visits (including all not related to this specific problem in NC anyway), you can add those days to the total requirement. Volvo ended up making a too good to be true offer to buy a 2005 V70R, so I didn't lemon the car btw (of course we sold the 05 after 11 months since it was a POS too, but that's a long story).

Chuck
Like I said , it ain,t over yet............and I mean that in many ways. That's not intended to be a veiled threat, just a fact. They've made some noise in regards to help of a substantial nature on the new 08 now in production. I will continue to post the events as they evolve.
 

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Barry Lausch said:
As of today the service manager claims that the problem appears to be on of the internal vanos supply lines..........a braided high pressure hydraulic hose that was leaking. This reminds me of the external vanos line that caused so much trouble such a short time ago. If this is the cause it certainly has become a very, very expensive part. We shall see.

As to the PA state lemon law statute the short version goes like this.....Loss of thirty days of non continuous use and/or three unsucessful attempts to fix the same problem. Today is day 20. It ain't over yet.
After nearly 3 months with my M5 in the shop, I decided to lemon it. BMW has a decent reputation when it comes to repurchasing lemons. As long as you can document that the car was in the shop for the same problem for the requisite number of days (varies state by state, obviously), they'll repurchase it. Now I just have to decide what car is going to replace the M5.
 

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aschwartz said:
After nearly 3 months with my M5 in the shop, I decided to lemon it. BMW has a decent reputation when it comes to repurchasing lemons. As long as you can document that the car was in the shop for the same problem for the requisite number of days (varies state by state, obviously), they'll repurchase it. Now I just have to decide what car is going to replace the M5.
This was on a 2007 6spd M5, right? You surely didn't get much time to use the car -- BMW should just buy the car back from you and make you whole on the deal.
 

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CSBM5 said:
This was on a 2007 6spd M5, right? You surely didn't get much time to use the car -- BMW should just buy the car back from you and make you whole on the deal.
Yep, an '07 manual. It was in my garage for just over 3 wks and then went to the dealer and never came back. I paid a premium over sticker and a "wait list fee" to get the first M5 that was allocated to the dealer that I bought the car from. That worked out well for me.
 

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Discussion Starter #35
aschwartz said:
Yep, an '07 manual. It was in my garage for just over 3 wks and then went to the dealer and never came back. I paid a premium over sticker and a "wait list fee" to get the first M5 that was allocated to the dealer that I bought the car from. That worked out well for me.
I am being offered the repurchase program, I had 2,500 miles on my 07 6 speed, we are trading even up for the 08 that is currently in production. I still can't believe this whole chain of events. I should have held onto my 06 SMG.
 

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Barry Lausch said:
I am being offered the repurchase program, I had 2,500 miles on my 07 6 speed, we are trading even up for the 08 that is currently in production. I still can't believe this whole chain of events. I should have held onto my 06 SMG.
Have you been told when they expect the first '08 M5s to hit port in the US? Are they using the '07 body style on the '08s or are they using the new 5 series body style that was announced on the bmwusa.com website?
 

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Discussion Starter #37
It's new mostly tweaks............the "new" body for the non-M 5 series is relly just bolt on stuff for the sport package options. When we spec'd it a week and a half ago it went into 150 phase production immediately and I recieved A VIN number on Monday.
 

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An amazing chain of events. Particularly like the part about your son seeing your car on the highway. They should spec your '08 with an extra or two for you pain, suffering, and lost investment on the payments you made for the other car. BTW, is your service center really as incompetent as they come off being in this thread???

Good luck with the new car.
 

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Discussion Starter #39
pvr said:
An amazing chain of events. Particularly like the part about your son seeing your car on the highway. They should spec your '08 with an extra or two for you pain, suffering, and lost investment on the payments you made for the other car. BTW, is your service center really as incompetent as they come off being in this thread???

Good luck with the new car.
When a problem goes into PUMA stage service, the factory is in control and the dealership's hands are tied. Anything they do outside of BMW factory instruction they own literally. It's avery time consuming and might I add frustrating process for the consumer. My major complaint was with communication coming back to me from point of service.

The end of the story (I hope!) goes like this. Yesterday I stop to pick up the car, it has been in their possession for 31 days. the problem was an internal high pressure vanos line which feeds oil @ 1,646 psi through a braided ss hose to the top of the engine internally to actuate the vanos variable valve timing mechanism on each cylinder bank. Unlike the previous vanos line issue BMW had a year and a half ago this is internal so the leak drains back to the main oil sump, so there is no outward indicator. I asked to see the line but it was already back in Germany. I suggested they should have taken a picture, a $30. part that's creating a $20,000. expense for BMW.

As I load my personals in the car, crawl inside and caress my steering wheel I realized just how much I had missed this vehicle. (I'm going to give it a name, well maybe the next one.) I was driving a 3 series loaner, OK for getting around but you guys know what I mean...... I crank her up and I hear a buzz, I jump outside, its louder and pop the hood it sounds like a mini-me chain saw. The service guys run outside looking as perplexed as me, although a small smile is beginning to appear on my face because the Owner of the dealership had driven the car approx 60 miles the day before to bless the repair. I felt around the top of the engine and found the buzz was eminating from the front of the left valve cover. The "M" specialist rushed my car back into surgery and i went to the customer lounge to watch Dr. Phil (I hate that guy) Turns out the vanos system had entrained air which needed to be bled off with a canned 18 minute program that puts the engine through a series of exercises via the ECU. Drove her home, end of story......

New 08 with SMG is manufactured and @ the port waiting for ship assignment. Past experience tells me in about two weeks I'll have a new car compliments of BMWNA. I'm 54 years old and have never experienced anything like this before. The process was a bit trying but BMW did the the right thing, that's what matters to me.

The names of specific individuals have been omitted to protect the innocent (or guilty) as necessary.
 

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Barry,

I'm glad to hear that you have reached a nice conclusion to your issue. I can only imagine how the guys at the service department felt when you started up the car, but thankfully it was a minor issue and was quickly resolved.

The bright side of this story is that you get to take delivery of a THIRD E60 M5. :) That part is always fun, even if you have to keep your fingers crossed the 2008 doesn't let you down somehow. I guess its too late to have them ship it to Spartanburg for Performance Center Delivery -- that part is a heck of a lot of fun, and would be a nice treat after what you have put up with.

Chuck
 
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