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Discussion Starter #1
Hi there,


I'm looking for some technical advice for an issue I currently have related to both Vanos units and the oil feed system on my E60 M5 (2005).


I took the car into the dealership a couple of weeks ago to investigate a rattle on startup. To cut a long story short it turns out that the oil feed pipe that runs from the oil pump in the sump, through the V in the block up to both Vanos valves is leaking and has been slowly starving the Vanos units of oil over a long period of time.


The cost to rectify the fault falls just short of £7k however, my car apparently has an error in the historical log for low Vanos oil pressure, probably before my ownership. As such, the Warranty company are saying they will not cover the cost of the repair as it falls outside of time I took up the warranty (I have the full BMW comprehensive warranty).


I'm wondering what my options are here, has this oil feed pipe been known to fail or is historically known to be a weak point in the oil feed system (my car only has 50k miles on it, low miles for 2005 I think)? Could this be a manufacturing defect or incorrect fitting when the car was manufactured which has resulted in this failure?


Obviously I cannot afford the £7k repair bill and I would be forced to move the car on, which I don't want to do as its my pride and joy.


I've asked the dealership to provide dates and mileage for the error log and also a copy of the report sent to the warranty company but I desperately need some experienced advice on my options?


Many Thanks


BobbaFett
 

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Yes this oil pipe, or actually braided hose is known for leakage issues. There is too much bending stress and the braid may crack, hose may start leaking. Replacement is often taken care off in conjunction with road bearings. These job are done for anywhere between 2000 - 4000 US from my observations. But not 8500 US like you got quotes. You are getting ripped off. Additionally, have they diagnosed it right? My advise: Go somewhere else.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Hi rt7085,


Thank you so much for your reply and information. I appreciate that the repair cost is high but this is due to the dealership looking to replace all the Vanos oil feed lines in conjunction with both Vanos units on each bank (the drivers side bank ergo your equivalent passenger side is the source of the rattle). As I have the BMW warranty I believed that this would all be sorted out under warranty with no qualms but the dealership are pushing for this to be done outside of warranty.


My own personal view on this is that the oil feed line should not fail in general on a car with such low mileage that has been fastidiously cared for all its life in line with BMW requirements.


The fault they have also referenced was not a permanent fault and the car actually had no faults or warning messages other than the rattle that started to manifest itself on start up.


I was under the impression that dealerships fall over themselves for warranty work as they can charge at premium rates but I get the feeling that this is not the case in the UK.


Many thanks


BobbaFett
 

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Hi there,


I'm looking for some technical advice for an issue I currently have related to both Vanos units and the oil feed system on my E60 M5 (2005).


I took the car into the dealership a couple of weeks ago to investigate a rattle on startup. To cut a long story short it turns out that the oil feed pipe that runs from the oil pump in the sump, through the V in the block up to both Vanos valves is leaking and has been slowly starving the Vanos units of oil over a long period of time.


The cost to rectify the fault falls just short of £7k however, my car apparently has an error in the historical log for low Vanos oil pressure, probably before my ownership. As such, the Warranty company are saying they will not cover the cost of the repair as it falls outside of time I took up the warranty (I have the full BMW comprehensive warranty).


I'm wondering what my options are here, has this oil feed pipe been known to fail or is historically known to be a weak point in the oil feed system (my car only has 50k miles on it, low miles for 2005 I think)? Could this be a manufacturing defect or incorrect fitting when the car was manufactured which has resulted in this failure?


Obviously I cannot afford the £7k repair bill and I would be forced to move the car on, which I don't want to do as its my pride and joy.


I've asked the dealership to provide dates and mileage for the error log and also a copy of the report sent to the warranty company but I desperately need some experienced advice on my options?


Many Thanks


BobbaFett

Has the dealer advised the warranty company that the repair should not be covered? Almost sounds like the dealer is not independent of the warranty company.


I had a similar situation where my warranty company refused to pay out in a similar situation, my oil lines were blocked due to debris in the oil from a damaged timing chain. The warranty company sent an 'independent' inspector who wrote a report, which was complete BS. I challenged the report and threatened legal action and strangely the warranty company made an offer which was about 75% of the maximum claim. To save potential legal cost I accepted. However I still have a substantial bill for a full engine rebuild.


Warranty in the UK seems to be a scam, where any substantial claim is rejected as standard. Only way to get anything is to fight. Firstly insist on a having an inspection report from an independent company. In my experience there get-out clauses would be wear and tear or bad servicing. If you can show the servicing is all in order, you have a chance.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Hi feedthegoat25,


Thanks for your feedback. If the dealership persist with not repairing under warranty I will take your suggestion and have the car independently inspected and a report produced.


The car has been serviced by BMW throughout its life apart from the last two services (before my ownership) where it was serviced in accordance with BMW guide lines by the garage directors (who owned the car) team.


The paperwork for the above two services outside of a BMW dealership caused me no end of pain from the dealership and the hoops I was forced to jump through, not to mention paperwork being accepted then backtracking to it then not being accepted where numerous :grrrr:


Many thanks


BobbaFett
 

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VANOS units on the heads do not need to be replaced. This is a common shotgun approach by dealerships who have little understanding of how these engines work. These actuators are literally the two simplest miniature hydraulic cylinders you could possibly construct.

If you have low VANOS pressure, it's useful to know the car doesn't have any means to know actual VANOS pressure. There is no pressure transducer anywhere on the VANOS. It measures response time of the VANOS timing changes and if response time is slow on both banks, it *assumes* it must be because of low oil pressure.

Steps:
1) physically measure VANOS pressure. This can be done by the dealer with ISTA/D and the IMIB pressure transducer adapter. This can also be done by anyone with a 200 bar pressure gage and banjo fitting.
2) If VANOS pressure is low, replace the internal VANOS high pressure line. While the oil pan is off for this, disassemble and inspect piston faces, piston race, needle bearing, and piston wheel of the VANOS pump.
3) Once VANOS pressure is corrected, run VANOS ventilation multiple times to clear air from the system. If VANOS problems persist, remove and clean solenoids and replace o-rings.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
As part and parcel of this whole debacle I've been doing some research on recalls issued for the 2005 E60 M5's and noticed that there was a recall issued for the Vanos oil feed system for cars manufactured up to and including Nov 2005.

I've checked my VIN using bmwvin.com and my cars production date is 25th Nov 2005.

Does anyone know if the recall effected cars produced on this date, I've read some threads that say up to 22nd Nov and then some that say up to 28th Nov?

Also, is there a place where I'd be able to check if my car has had any recall related repairs applied - there is no paperwork in the cars extensive history file relating to any recall repairs?

Many thanks

BobbaFett
 

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As part and parcel of this whole debacle I've been doing some research on recalls issued for the 2005 E60 M5's and noticed that there was a recall issued for the Vanos oil feed system for cars manufactured up to and including Nov 2005.

I've checked my VIN using bmwvin.com and my cars production date is 25th Nov 2005.

Does anyone know if the recall effected cars produced on this date, I've read some threads that say up to 22nd Nov and then some that say up to 28th Nov?

Also, is there a place where I'd be able to check if my car has had any recall related repairs applied - there is no paperwork in the cars extensive history file relating to any recall repairs?

Many thanks

BobbaFett


Im sure you can use the carfax app to look up any recalls that apply to your car (if any). I also found this a service bulletin from BMW just in case its any use to anyone here
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Thanks for the above Jomar1494,
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I spoke to BMW Warranty directly and they advised me that they are unaware of any issues with my vehicle and that the retailer / dealership are the ones that refuse or grant warranty work :eek


The dealership have said that they will not repair my car under warranty due to the historical error log entry (which was not a permanent error) that has been logged in the cars ecu before my warranty was valid.


My argument is that the high pressure oil feed pipe should not fail on my car as its been serviced by BMW for all but the last two services (before my ownership) with them now also disputing the paperwork for the engine oil on the last two services - after providing them the paperwork and them speaking with the director who owned the car directly.


Am I right in thinking the only way forward for me now is to pursue this down legal avenues and get the car independently inspected and oil in the sump analysed?


BobbaFett:frown
 

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Thanks for the above Jomar1494,
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I spoke to BMW Warranty directly and they advised me that they are unaware of any issues with my vehicle and that the retailer / dealership are the ones that refuse or grant warranty work :eek


The dealership have said that they will not repair my car under warranty due to the historical error log entry (which was not a permanent error) that has been logged in the cars ecu before my warranty was valid.


My argument is that the high pressure oil feed pipe should not fail on my car as its been serviced by BMW for all but the last two services (before my ownership) with them now also disputing the paperwork for the engine oil on the last two services - after providing them the paperwork and them speaking with the director who owned the car directly.


Am I right in thinking the only way forward for me now is to pursue this down legal avenues and get the car independently inspected and oil in the sump analysed?


BobbaFett:frown


Your welcome, Im honestly with you on this one. I would think if the car was serviced by Bmw that it should be covered to an extent or fully by warranty. Especially knowing that your car is not the only one known to this failure of the high pressure oil feed line.

I would probably threaten them with a legal action if all else fails and see if they give in. Or just take it to another dealer and see if they will perform the warranty work.
 

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Is there actually a recall on the feed line for cars that were produced 11/22/05? I checked carfax and there is nothing there. I have over 50 service records on carfax but none of them have anything to do with recalls? anyone? is it too late?
 

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I guess i meant to say that, the dealer did the oil feed line at 28k miles. Is it normal for the line to fail again?
It is all depending on the factor of how extremely you drive in hot temperature(thermal expansion) and how clean you maintain your chemicals (oil) in complex, I assume.
Rubber in nature tends to crack or rupture due to age and its exposure to heat and chemical oxidation.
the more you run bad oils (acidic and chemically active) in the system, the greater chance and sooner the time will come that you have to change your rubber parts.

Think about the rubber or the system bathed in your bad acidic oil overnight after so many hot runs you spirited with smiles on your face. this is why I don't believe oil interval that BMW recommends for the intricacy it manufactured
 

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Mine was replaced at 38k although the car was manufactured march 07,
10 years of driving at the above distance has enough to cause the leak at the terminal end of a braided line, not whole line.
The effect of the leak at such size was marginal short distance after i do vanos ventilation function via ISTA.
However, if your butt experience the progressive change of your car into poor throttle response afterward, and poor low end torque, that is the sign that your vanos system is start leaking.

I ended up get it replaced because I was tired of bleeding the system for every 20 miles and every cold start-up

This maybe one way without all pressure testing tools to eliminate the hose leak factor while you diagnose your vanos.
 
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