[m_petrov22]

Hi, I’ve got P0012 code, “Bank 1: Intake Camshaft position timing - over-retarded”. Does anyone know which of the intake solenoids (upper or lower) causing over-retarded timing?
Thanks

 

[Sailor24]

That code does not translate well to BMW diagnostics. If you scanned it with a device that read the BMW hex or decimal codes you would get out of position code which is sort of the same but minus the over retarded. Take the over retarded with a grain of salt.
Generally that is a CPS code if the CPS have not been replaced with the updated version. Have your CPS been changed? Are you getting any other codes? Has your exhaust note changed since this code came up? How long have you had the code?

 

[m_petrov22]

So initially I purchased the entire Vanos unit for Bank 2 from Dr.Vanos including solenoids. After assembly the car was running perfect for about 50 miles. After that SES light came on with P0025 “Bank 2: Exhaust Camshaft Timing Over-Retarded”. After reading related posts here, I thought one of my solenoids failed, so I send solenoids back to Dr.Vanos to replace one of them as a warranty (they said one of them was stuck and they replaced it). When I put it back together, car was running fine for about 20 minutes, and then same symptoms( SES light and rough idle, etc). Now it was showing P1532: “B Camshaft Position Actuator Control Open Circuit Bank 2” and P0024 “Bank 2: Exhaust Camshaft Position Timing - Over-Advanced”. I thought it was a board issue so I send it back again to Dr.Vanos to replace the board. After I got it back, nothing changed, same issue and codes came back immediately (also now there was pending codes for 5-8 cylinders misfire). I decided to replace my Bank 2 exhaust cam sensor, and while working there discovered unplugged knock sensor connector ( however later when I plugged it back in, it didn’t made any changes). After replacing my exhaust cam sensor, once again nothing changed, same symptoms and same codes. So I decided to swap solenoids sides, and now I was getting P1525 “ Bank 1: “A” Camshaft position Actuator Control Open Circuit” and P0012 “Bank 1: Intake Camshaft position timing - over-retarded” along with pending codes for 1-4 cylinders misfires. After that I swap solenoids couple more time just to make sure, and codes were jumping from one bank to another as I swapped them. Also, if you look at the solenoids location on the board, Bank 1 “Intake Camshaft Over-Retarded” and Bank 2 “Exhaust Camshaft Over-Advanced” caused by the same solenoid( in the lower-right corner”.
So now I suspecting that it wasn’t board problem in the first place, more like second solenoid failed or stuck. Now sending solenoids back to Dr.Vanos to replace another solenoid

 

[m_petrov22]

That code does not translate well to BMW diagnostics. If you scanned it with a device that read the BMW hex or decimal codes you would get out of position code which is sort of the same but minus the over retarded. Take the over retarded with a grain of salt.
Generally that is a CPS code if the CPS have not been replaced with the updated version. Have your CPS been changed? Are you getting any other codes? Has your exhaust note changed since this code came up? How long have you had the code?

Yes, along with rough idle, exhaust note changed as well

 

[Sailor24]

The fact that the codes move with the boards says it is boards. If you are skilled enough to do what you have done, I would suggest you work on the boards yourself, I guess if you get them back and they are not working. The boards are not hard to work on many a first timer have done them, might take them twice but there is no skill except for soldering and care required.

 

[m_petrov22]

I already replace boards on both banks

 

[Sailor24]

I already replace boards on both banks

I did not get what you typed, I will read it again. Part of the problem is your post is a wall of text. Very hard to read so I will quote it and add some spaces.

So initially I purchased the entire Vanos unit for Bank 2 from Dr.Vanos including solenoids. After assembly the car was running perfect for about 50 miles.
After that SES light came on with P0025 “Bank 2: Exhaust Camshaft Timing Over-Retarded”. After reading related posts here, I thought one of my solenoids failed, so I send solenoids back to Dr.Vanos to replace one of them as a warranty (they said one of them was stuck and they replaced it).
When I put it back together, car was running fine for about 20 minutes, and then same symptoms( SES light and rough idle, etc). Now it was showing P1532: “B Camshaft Position Actuator Control Open Circuit Bank 2” and P0024 “Bank 2: Exhaust Camshaft Position Timing - Over-Advanced”.
I thought it was a board issue so I send it back again to Dr.Vanos to replace the board. After I got it back, nothing changed, same issue and codes came back immediately (also now there was pending codes for 5-8 cylinders misfire).

I decided to replace my Bank 2 exhaust cam sensor, and while working there discovered unplugged knock sensor connector ( however later when I plugged it back in, it didn’t made any changes). After replacing my exhaust cam sensor, once again nothing changed, same symptoms and same codes. So I decided to swap solenoids sides, and now I was getting P1525 “ Bank 1: “A” Camshaft position Actuator Control Open Circuit” and P0012 “Bank 1: Intake Camshaft position timing - over-retarded” along with pending codes for 1-4 cylinders misfires.
After that I swap solenoids couple more time just to make sure, and codes were jumping from one bank to another as I swapped them. Also, if you look at the solenoids location on the board, Bank 1 “Intake Camshaft Over-Retarded” and Bank 2 “Exhaust Camshaft Over-Advanced” caused by the same solenoid( in the lower-right corner”.
So now I suspecting that it wasn’t board problem in the first place, more like second solenoid failed or stuck. Now sending solenoids back to Dr.Vanos to replace another solenoid

So you have a board problem, you seem to be separating solenoid from board, but they are all one. You have a bad solenoid or plug, maybe a failed joint somewhere. All those things are included in board problem. No one can say what the actual problem is without testing the board. You could test them it is simple. When someone around here says boards the solenoids and everything else on the board is included.
You are just another case of bad board work from DR Vanos, not uncommon there are a few posts about this. Some of the pics are just amateur hour for the solder work. I also don't like the choice of orings but that is just me.
So you have done the right thing, sending the boards back to him, but I sure as heck would not do it a third time. We will teach you or give you threads on doing it yourself.

 

[m_petrov22]

Well, maybe I didn’t explained it properly, but I meant the green board itself.
Based on what a guy from Dr.Vanos told me, he tested board, plug as well as solenoids. Maybe he missed on one of them. I also found a post here where all 4 solenoids were actuating properly, and it ended up one of the solenoids blocked from inside. Maybe that’s also my case.
Anyway, I already send him the board to replaced that solenoid, so hopefully that will solve the issue. I just decided give him a try first since I bought them from Dr.Vanos and it’s no charge for me to replace each of these solenoids.
And myself I have no experience with soldering, so I was hesitant to try it, didn’t want to messed up anything, especially with stuff like M5 solenoids.

 

[m_petrov22]

I did not get what you typed, I will read it again. Part of the problem is your post is a wall of text. Very hard to read so I will quote it and add some spaces.

So you have a board problem, you seem to be separating solenoid from board, but they are all one. You have a bad solenoid or plug, maybe a failed joint somewhere. All those things are included in board problem. No one can say what the actual problem is without testing the board. You could test them it is simple. When someone around here says boards the solenoids and everything else on the board is included.
You are just another case of bad board work from DR Vanos, not uncommon there are a few posts about this. Some of the pics are just amateur hour for the solder work. I also don't like the choice of orings but that is just me.
So you have done the right thing, sending the boards back to him, but I sure as heck would not do it a third time. We will teach you or give you threads on doing it yourself.

By o-rings did you meant the one that Dr.Vanos selling? Is there any other better choices?

 

[AHDP3Y]

O-rings from BMW have flat inner walls. Not sure about Dr Vanos. Pretty sure the same.
Where do you have oil on the board? Back (towards grubs) or front ?
Oil should not damage your board and I guess you will have some but not much of oil on your boards as VANOS boards designed to work with oil.
Also, o-rings might look ok but they harden over time. Most cases you will not see the difference until you "feel" them.

 

[m_petrov22]

O-rings from BMW have flat inner walls. Not sure about Dr Vanos. Pretty sure the same.
Where do you have oil on the board? Back (towards grubs) or front ?
Oil should not damage your board and I guess you will have some but not much of oil on your boards as VANOS boards designed to work with oil.
Also, o-rings might look ok but they harden over time. Most cases you will not see the difference until you "feel" them.

Yeah, they felt ok, I’m assuming Dr.Vanos replaced them before selling.
Just in general some signs of oil on inside part of the board

 

[AHDP3Y]

You know what happens when we ASSume things....
But again that's how he makes money so probably wouldn't want to sacrifice his reputation by selling solenoids with old seals....
But again he did sell you some crap that failed, so who knows.
You will not know until you do it yourself.

 

[Sailor24]

Pretty sure the same.

Not even close to the same rings. He supplies a standard round Vitron oring.There should never be signs of oil on the boards, except from removal.

 

[AHDP3Y]

Not even close to the same rings. He supplies a standard round Vitron oring.There should never be signs of oil on the boards, except from removal.

That would explain why there is oil on boards.

 

[scye39]

I also had the open control circuit code. the solenoid housing was shorting to one of the solenoid wires. solution was to turn the suspect solenoid within the board slightly so the wires wouldn't touch the housing upon reinstall

 

[m_petrov22]

Not even close to the same rings. He supplies a standard round Vitron oring.There should never be signs of oil on the boards, except from removal.

Yeah, it was after I removed them so probably that’s the reason

 

[m_petrov22]

So, an update. I got the solenoids back this week, and nothing changed. They replaced another solenoid which I suspected faulty (right lower corner) Same rough idle and same codes (except now doesn’t show codes for misfires).

Also now the solenoids won’t go in completely inside vanos unit on their own. Never had an issue with it in the past. Used to be just a click and they stay in place, now it’s like something forced them back out as I trying to install them in. Could that affect the function of the board and relate to this issue and codes?

The solder joint on that solenoid they replaced is kind of “twisted” and doesn’t seem sitting right( compared to other three joint).Could that joint be the reason it still cause these codes?
Not sure if I should send it back to them after three unsuccessful tries. Was think about giving it a try myself, however never done a soldering before and don’t mess anything up even further. Any thoughts? Is there any other good place you can send these solenoids for repair besides Dr.Vanos?

 

[AHDP3Y]

View attachment 972028 View attachment 972029
So, an update. I got the solenoids back this week, and nothing changed. They replaced another solenoid which I suspected faulty (right lower corner) Same rough idle and same codes (except now doesn’t show codes for misfires).

Also now the solenoids won’t go in completely inside vanos unit on their own. Never had an issue with it in the past. Used to be just a click and they stay in place, now it’s like something forced them back out as I trying to install them in. Could that affect the function of the board and relate to this issue and codes?

The solder joint on that solenoid they replaced is kind of “twisted” and doesn’t seem sitting right( compared to other three joint).Could that joint be the reason it still cause these codes?
Not sure if I should send it back to them after three unsuccessful tries. Was think about giving it a try myself, however never done a soldering before and don’t mess anything up even further. Any thoughts? Is there any other good place you can send these solenoids for repair besides Dr.Vanos?

It's easy work man. Buy your seals from dealership. But first try to get your money back from DR Vanos.if solenoid doesn't go in, it will have issues and you will have oil coming from all over the place.

 

[AHDP3Y]

Looking at the pictures, this is some horrible work, for a company that charges money. solder points are crap. This is equivalent of the same **** I did to my solenoid first time I soldered it. Connector to the noid is twisted/bent. Could be messed up on the inside as well. I'm pretty sure Sailor has more to say about this, but this is some mediocre job from a company that does this for a living.
Get your money back man

 

[AHDP3Y]

Also, it seems that your seals on the noids are failing. If you are able to drive the car for 20-50 miles with no issues and then it comes up, maybe, just maybe, those things don't hold up to pressure that Vanos is putting out.