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Discussion Starter #1
I recently purchased the UUC Stage 1 ultimate clutch and flywheel combo not more than 5000 miles ago, and now my car is in the shop because of slippage. This just happened. One day I'm pedalling along fine and the next I feel a huge slip in 1st and 2nd gear. Next time it's up to 4th gear. Yesterday I pull of the line at a stop light; I feel the slip and smell the burn.

This doesn't seem right at all. I may not be an experianced raced driver but I've had my fair share of clutched performance cars. I've never blown a clutch in 4k miles.

One note: I followed the reccomended break-in, I think. No hard shifting for 1000 miles. My mechanic actually had a problem putting it in as we had to call UUC many times during intallation. He states he won't warrant it as it's aftermarket.

Could this be from driver error (it's only 5k miles) or installation error? I doubt it's UUC error as I have heard nothing wrong with their clutches on any board.

Opinions please, so I know what to discuss with my mechanic.
 

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Stryder69 said:
I recently purchased the UUC Stage 1 ultimate clutch and flywheel combo not more than 5000 miles ago, and now my car is in the shop because of slippage. This just happened. One day I'm pedalling along fine and the next I feel a huge slip in 1st and 2nd gear. Next time it's up to 4th gear. Yesterday I pull of the line at a stop light; I feel the slip and smell the burn.

This doesn't seem right at all. I may not be an experianced raced driver but I've had my fair share of clutched performance cars. I've never blown a clutch in 4k miles.

One note: I followed the reccomended break-in, I think. No hard shifting for 1000 miles. My mechanic actually had a problem putting it in as we had to call UUC many times during intallation. He states he won't warrant it as it's aftermarket.

Could this be from driver error (it's only 5k miles) or installation error? I doubt it's UUC error as I have heard nothing wrong with their clutches on any board.

Opinions please, so I know what to discuss with my mechanic.
What was the friction material on your clutch?

What types of problems did your tech have with the install?

I'm beating the heck out of my UUC clutch and loving it...


Mark
 

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Discussion Starter #3
It is I beleieve the standard kit. Stage 1.

The installer was not familiar with the bolting or something. He said initialy it did not fit but after discussing it with UUC they were able to adjust the degree.

I've beat it up a little, but 5000 mi slippage. Not nearly have I beat it that bad
 

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Stryder69 said:
I recently purchased the UUC Stage 1 ultimate clutch and flywheel combo not more than 5000 miles ago, and now my car is in the shop because of slippage.

The stage 1 clutch kit you bought uses the weak OEM organic non-race materials which is susceptible to glazing on hard runs eventhough it is larger in diameter.........

LSCMAN please provide your clutch wisdom on this one....
 

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Stryder69 said:
Could this be from driver error (it's only 5k miles) or installation error? I doubt it's UUC error as I have heard nothing wrong with their clutches on any board.

Opinions please, so I know what to discuss with my mechanic.
I would contact Rob directly. He may want to talk to your mechanic, but if Rob walked him through the install, the install should have been OK. Rob may want some pics to see what it looks like. Good luck.
Regards,
Jerry
 

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marcvip said:

The stage 1 clutch kit you bought uses the weak OEM organic non-race materials which is susceptible to glazing on hard runs eventhough it is larger in diameter.........

LSCMAN please provide your clutch wisdom on this one....
Stage 1 uses OEM organic non-race materials for stock pedal feel. It is indeed the lightest duty 11" setup available. The Sachs organic performance disk option is a reasonable upgrade for abusive street drivers that want to maintain good pedal feel. An 11" OEM street clutch is not weak, since it holds up behind ZO6, Ferrari and other supercars that get flogged. That said, it is DEFINITELY suseptible to glazing & slip with abuse or repeated drag racing. It is virtually identical to the clutch found in a Corvette in both size and compound. Luk makes OEM organic clutches for Corvette and BMW.

A clutch can fail from various causes, including driving method, duty and ancillary hardware failures such as throwout bearing, fork, pivot, bearing retainer (trans snout worn) or hydraulics. Many parts are involved. In rare cases, a mechanic wrongly assumes a fresh clutch kit install is the fix.

It is very difficult to tell from afar. In my opinion, high RPM launches for repeated drag racing require a higher temp material such as stage 3.

As I've mentioned before, I watched a friend's spouse eat several 11" organic OEM clutches in a Corvette...one in a single summer. I might add this was autocross where clutches should not be overtaxed. This was driving technique, not bad clutches. The launch method was tough on the clutch...although I should note this driver won National SCCA Solo II events at Salina using this method. My Corvette had the same clutch and saw 50K street miles plus thousands of track miles shifting at WOT & heel and toe downshifting perhaps 20 times per lap. Organic 11" Luk worked like a champ for me. Experiences will vary.

A person "can" smoke an organic clutch of any diameter or pressure plate rating. All it takes is high RPM, heavy throttle, heavy load and a foot held on the pedal preventing engagement. A race disk will hold up a lot longer in an abusive scenerio. In some cases, they can transmit enough heat to the flywheel & pressure plate to cause major cracking, warpage and even grenade action.
 

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Simple answer.. maybe this one is just defective? Every manufacturer expects a certain number of defective units per X hundred or thousand units. Maybe you "lucked" into the bad unit?
 

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hmmm
 

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Stryder69 said:
One day I'm pedalling along fine and the next I feel a huge slip in 1st and 2nd gear. Next time it's up to 4th gear. Yesterday I pull of the line at a stop light; I feel the slip and smell the burn.
You mention "huge" slip that spans several outings...continuing to drive it until it smells. The first gear slip you felt and described would require a new $300 disk, no more. The repeated slippage and odor are symptomatic of driver-induced meltdown & total destruction. You need to react quickly to minimize repair fees when clutches or flat tires are involved. An extra 1/2 hour of driving can cost you bux.

I would stop driving the setup & pray the flywheel and pressure plate survived. Hopefully it's not too late. A new disk will generally address slip, unless you run it to failure. The opportunity to substitute a stage 3 disk may be available, unless you overheat the setup. I have felt slip before, but always stop driving long before I could smell it. Flywheel and pressure plate destruction caused by uncontrolled slip is measured in seconds.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Lscman said:
You mention "huge" slip that spans several outings...continuing to drive it until it smells. The first gear slip you felt and described would require a new $300 disk, no more. The repeated slippage and odor are symptomatic of driver-induced meltdown & total destruction. You need to react quickly to minimize repair fees when clutches or flat tires are involved. An extra 1/2 hour of driving can cost you bux.

I would stop driving the setup & pray the flywheel and pressure plate survived. Hopefully it's not too late. A new disk will generally address slip, unless you run it to failure. The opportunity to substitute a stage 3 disk may be available, unless you overheat the setup. I have felt slip before, but always stop driving long before I could smell it. Flywheel and pressure plate destruction caused by uncontrolled slip is measured in seconds.
Thanks very much for the information. You are correct; I should have headed straight home and parked it. The driving span was a day with 3 different occassions and honestly i think my brain could not accept the fact that had slippage. It was just to ugly a thought to face. The odor lent itself to reality. My car is now in the shop and I'm just awaiting the dreadful news. I posted this topic so that I may get some clear possibilites so as tro arm myself for the bad news. I've heard much to often consumers being raked over transmission/clutch issues. I want to save myself that headache by knowing some symptons. You've all been helful.
 

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Discussion Starter #12 (Edited)
I'm hosed

After a week in the shop I finally get the call from my mechanic; it wasn't pleasant news. He states my cluctch is hosed, toasted, put a fork in it. He states that the cluctch itself has no padding or clamping material left and the flywheel is burnt. He confims my mileage at just under 5k miles. Man my wife is gonna kill me.. :grrrrr: I'm going down to take a look at it but I don't know why. I know not what I'll be looking at. He says I need a complete clutch flywheel all over and that my old package at 37k miles looked better.

Man...:sad2: I don't drag or anything. Most of my driving is done on the highway as I go between Oregon and Washington. I mean... sure I've gotten on it a few times:wroom: But nothing major, like wheels smoking. I got to think of a good thing to tell my wife, cuz I can hear her now:nono: "I hate that car!!!!!! I should have never bought that silly thing for your birthday... it's all about that stupid car... and what makes it so special anyway.

That's what she'll say, and I'll just look at her with all the love and understanding I can muster; I love my wife with all my heart, but I know She'll never understand....so I decide instead to grab my pillow and go sleep in my car..without a word... BUT #$%$ I Can't to that now because she's not at home. :sad3:
 

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It should only be replaced if it can be confirmed that it was a hardware failure or improper installation (I suspect the installation). Otherwise, the clutch died as a result of too much slippage by the driver. The 11" clutch is a substantial monster than can take a huge heat input (much larger heat input than the stock sized discs), so if it was not defective, and it was installed correctly, the driver has to own up to the outcome.
 

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Re: I'm hosed

Stryder69 said:
... it wasn't pleasant news...
I am so sorry. Reading your account of what happened reminds me of when my pristine M5 was recently wrecked (while parked) by an uninsured crackhead. Both are gut-wrenching.

You should contact Rob at UUC. He's a reasonable man, give him a chance.

Good luck, let us know.
 

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Re: I'm hosed

Stryder69 said:
After a week in the shop I finally get the call from my mechanic; it wasn't pleasant news. He states my cluctch is hosed, toasted, put a fork in it. :
I'm just gonna say that the mechanic, IF HE SCREWED UP, has a $3700 incentive to keep his culpability quiet.

You need to get with Rob at UUC and see what failed. There are three possibilities:

driver abuse
UUC product failure
Installion mistake

My bet is #3, based on your assertions you don't drag race.

You need to get some info outside of the mechanic... ask Rob/UUC what he needs- pictures, parts, etc heck, if something was installed incorrectly and the clutch never fully engaged it might look toasted...

My 2 cents

A
 

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As I posted in your indentical thread on another message board, this is really quite surprising... the V12 clutch conversion has been proving itself for at least two years now in several cars with many times the mileage of yours.

As others have posted, there's a good chance that an installation error was made, but let's review the situation when you call tomorrow.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Rob Levinson said:
As I posted in your indentical thread on another message board, this is really quite surprising... the V12 clutch conversion has been proving itself for at least two years now in several cars with many times the mileage of yours.

As others have posted, there's a good chance that an installation error was made, but let's review the situation when you call tomorrow.
Yes indeed Rob. I got your message from the other forum and planned on giving you a call. I do thank you for the time that you've spent helping me out; both here on the different forums and when we spoke a few days ago.

I am in no way asserting that my clutch failure was due to a bad product such as UUC. I do believe it was due to faulty installation as was mentioned in my earlier post because they had to call UUC on several occassions during my installation, I had doubt then.

I don't know what can come as this as I don't see a shop ponying up for a new package plus instal. They have admitted very frequently since this all came about that they have little experiance in aftermarket clutches most ironically with UUC.

Thanks for your help!
 

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Stryder69 said:
I don't see a shop ponying up for a new package plus install

Why not? One of the reasons shops charge what they charge is to cover the occasional screw up. They may not want to, and you may need to threaten them.. they may want to negotiate a lower price from UUC... they may claim that you got 5k miles (thats worth 5%)... could be they are only out $2k in the end...

but all of this is AFTER you determine if they screwed up.
 

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Stryder69 said:
.........I do believe it was due to faulty installation as was mentioned in my earlier post because they had to call UUC on several occassions during my installation, I had doubt then.

I don't know what can come as this as I don't see a shop ponying up for a new package plus instal. They have admitted very frequently since this all came about that they have little experiance in aftermarket clutches most ironically with UUC.

Thanks for your help!
You are faced with several issues:

1) Generally speaking, a shop will never admit to fault with their work, unless the problem is glaringly apparent and the car owner has undeniable evidence/proof. The could only occur if you took the car to another shop for autopsy. It is too late to go that route.

2) The flywheel and pressure plate should have been saved. This is driver-induced damage that occurred after slippage became evident. Flywheel and pressure plates generally "need" replaced when they get heat checked or hot spots from logging many miles or the clutch kit has seen a full lifecycle and/or the disk wears to near zero clearance and rivets gouge the swept surfaces. Good luck finding someone to cover damage to a newer flywheel from prolonged, premature slip. If you want to save big bux in the future, get the car towed next time you sense slip or any functional degradation. Let a professional mechanic test drive the car to diagnose whether the symptom is significant.

3) Everyone's driving behavior varies radically. For added insurance, you would be wise to choose a race duty non-organic Stage 3 clutch disk next time. Some folks dump the clutch at lower RPM and walk out of the hole using engine torque. Clutches in these cars see little wear & heat, unless they slip on upshifts. Other folks rev their motor during launch and slip the clutch under high loads at higher HP & RPM....this REALLY generates heat & beats upon any organic clutch. Other folks have bad habits like using the clutch as a brake or slipping it for long durations as a hill-holder at stoplights (yuk). Clutches that see extended slip at higher RPM may not survive with organic compounds. Generally speaking, non-drag racers should have excellent results with an oversized organic clutch. That said, a very small percentage of folks "will" find a way to burn an 11" organic clutch to the ground within months in a non-drag environment....I've seen it in the Corvette community.

4) Hopefully the shop has the skill to check for pedal linkage, crank snout, clutch fork, fork pivot, throwout bearing, seal leak or hydraulic issues that could prevent the clutch from fully engaging. If you have ANY of these problems, NO clutch will survive. A big clutch will never help, if the root cause is some other hardware.
 

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What is so difficult/different with this clutch package that is so hard to install? Having installed dozens of clutches in cars of all types and power levels, I really haven't had a system that was so different and difficult to understand and install. Sounds like installation error is a very likely suspect.
 
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