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Discussion Starter #1
Some quick thoughts -

My 88 has a moonroof
540i rear brakes
older center vent control
Euro 7"/5.25" headlights / citylights
two button fog light switch - one for fog (front and back)other for citylights
16 x 8 BBS RK (not sure of style)running 245/45/16
heated front seats
Kmac camber control units front
3.25 LSD

Am looking at upgrades like -
control arms (7 series)
urethene bushings
strut brace (front and back)
removal of SLS

Other thoughts ?
I have not listed every upgrade available
My thought is to stay affordable - use BMW parts as much as possible
I know some dump the 4 piston front brakes ( I just have not found them limiting with the rear upgrade )
Am hearing that they are soon to become NLA
caliper kits as well? anyone Know?

How much do upgrades detrack from value or are some desirable ?

Let me know what you think - and what you have done that you consider as a desirable upgrade

I always think better with a black hood out in front of me ...
John
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Thanks -
My car was chipped by PO - I always forget to mention because I did not have a role in it

I should check it to be sure ... And problem with cracking into it...
TIA
John
 

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Discussion Starter #6
:2:
BM5W said:
I'd definately get a Conforti chip... it is good for another 48 extra horses and 32 ft/lbs of torque increase. It is only 250 bucks.

http://www.turnermotorsport.com/html/detail.asp?PRODUCT_ID=079-000

There really is no reason not to get this upgrade.
I never forget a garage I would want - Love the lift (custom roof and all)
Moonroof works much better then I had imagined ... "really opens it up"
you were right ...
Fixed the cruise control with help of your wiring diagrams
Thanks again
John
PS am looking to visit the Lucky Labador (E21 and 02 gatherings) some time in Jan if things work out..
interested ?
 

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John,
I just purchased an e28 M5 and it has the non-functioning cruise control option. Otherwise the car is in pretty good shape, any suggestions as to how to go about rooting out the problem would be great. Thanks.
-Will:wroom:
 

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john lucas said:
Some quick thoughts -

Am looking at upgrades like -
control arms (7 series)
urethene bushings
strut brace (front and back)
removal of SLS

Other thoughts ?
I have not listed every upgrade available
My thought is to stay affordable - use BMW parts as much as possible
I know some dump the 4 piston front brakes ( I just have not found them limiting with the rear upgrade )
Am hearing that they are soon to become NLA
caliper kits as well? anyone Know?

How much do upgrades detrack from value or are some desirable ?

Let me know what you think - and what you have done that you consider as a desirable upgrade

I always think better with a black hood out in front of me ...
John
John,

I would not consider using the control arm bushings from the 7. I realize this is a common "upgrade," but going with the OEM bushings will produce better results than the 7 busings will. The 7 bushings are slightly more mushy than the E28 M5 bushings.

I would consider a step up to 17" wheels. You can fit 255's on the rear end. If anything besides improved handling performance, looks might improve. There might be increased rotating mass, but the stock wheels are not light, and some of the aftermarket wheels are light.

I removed the SLS as soon as I bought my car. I picked up Dinan's SLS removal kit, slapped on a Dinan Stage IV suspension and have not looked back. The SLS is not a real problem, but I do not want to deal with upkeep and the cost of upkeep on the system. Plus, removing the SLS dropped some weight off of the car (off of the rear end, less traction maybe ?????? ) as the accumulators are heavy as hell.

More to come later. Gotta go back to work for a few :mad:

Willie, Ill be on AIM tonight some...talk to you then hopefully.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
M5Willie said:
John,
I just purchased an e28 M5 and it has the non-functioning cruise control option. Otherwise the car is in pretty good shape, any suggestions as to how to go about rooting out the problem would be great. Thanks.
-Will:wroom:
Sendt this to you as private message - thought others might benefit

I replaced the light in my dash computer and lost all cruise control after installation -

Lived with it for sometime then found a discussion on roadfly about how it hooks up on the back side of the instrument cluster -

The connection is a slip-on alligator like clip that needs to be facing the driver (wires) when re-installed

My natural tendency was to clip the other way - seemed obvious to me as it might to most everyone else -

I would look here first - I have a spare cruise control computer from ebay that I ended up not needing - advise if you might need it -

second place to look for trouble is the cut out switches on the clutch and brake -

HTH
John
 

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CGA said:
I have a Dinan Chip in mine. I was wondering if the JC chip is better. I installed a JC chip on my 87 325 and loved it.
I've read that the jc chip pulls better from 2-5k, and the dinan chip (especially with the exhaust cam) pulls better from 5k to the red. Personally, I think the 2-5 is range is more practical for daily driving, while racing/high speed would benefit from the dinan chip more. Anyone going for top speeds on places other than a track is a little crazy, I've read 170 is possible...
 

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Randomg said:
I've read that the jc chip pulls better from 2-5k, and the dinan chip (especially with the exhaust cam) pulls better from 5k to the red. Personally, I think the 2-5 is range is more practical for daily driving, while racing/high speed would benefit from the dinan chip more. Anyone going for top speeds on places other than a track is a little crazy, I've read 170 is possible...
Perhaps on a modified M, but from my understanding of things they're only good to around ~150 actually. The speed indicated on the speedo is obviously another story though. Maybe I'll see the next time I'm in Eastern Washington.:haha:
 

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I upgraded from an early generation Dinan chip to a JC chip and did notice a difference. The JC chip enhances the lowend torque over the Dinan chip subtely, nothing huge but enough to notice. The shop just finished removing my SLS system in favor of a ground control setup, added front and rear strut braces from IE, and 540i rear brakes so I'm very, very excited to pick up the M5 next week.
IMO, I don't think any upgrades that are easily reversible detract from the value of the car at all. I will keep all my SLS components as they work perfectly, I won't cut my trunk liners for the rear strut brace, etc. Basically, other than the aluminum flywheel and the cut front spring perches for the coilovers, the car can be returned to stock quite easily. As far as adding value, IMHO, most modifications add so little additional value to the car that it isn't a factor worth considering. I would pay just as much for a pristine stock M5 as a modified one. Even if you dropped a $20K 3.9L stroker in there, the added value to me as a buyer would be minimal since not knowing anything about the motor and the quality of the build creates added risk.
 

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M5Willie said:
Perhaps on a modified M, but from my understanding of things they're only good to around ~150 actually. The speed indicated on the speedo is obviously another story though. Maybe I'll see the next time I'm in Eastern Washington.:haha:
Yeah, I haven't tested top speed, but if the chips' ratings aren't bs'd (which seems to be against the general concensus) then it should be capable of 155 just like the euro. I figured that the extra rpm would give you a higher top speed, but I guess I forgot about both the speedo inaccuracy and the aerodynamics of the thing.

ajw45 said:
I upgraded from an early generation Dinan chip to a JC chip and did notice a difference. The JC chip enhances the lowend torque over the Dinan chip subtely, nothing huge but enough to notice. The shop just finished removing my SLS system in favor of a ground control setup, added front and rear strut braces from IE, and 540i rear brakes so I'm very, very excited to pick up the M5 next week.
IMO, I don't think any upgrades that are easily reversible detract from the value of the car at all. I will keep all my SLS components as they work perfectly, I won't cut my trunk liners for the rear strut brace, etc. Basically, other than the aluminum flywheel and the cut front spring perches for the coilovers, the car can be returned to stock quite easily. As far as adding value, IMHO, most modifications add so little additional value to the car that it isn't a factor worth considering. I would pay just as much for a pristine stock M5 as a modified one. Even if you dropped a $20K 3.9L stroker in there, the added value to me as a buyer would be minimal since not knowing anything about the motor and the quality of the build creates added risk.
Wow, you basically did all the mods I've wanted to do, and all at the same time. I'm sure you'll notice a big difference. I've heard much better turn in from the strut braces (I wasn't sure if I needed a rear) and of course the rear brakes really help fade. The only reason I'm skeptical about getting rid of sls is due to the fact that the weight back there gives the m5 it's great balance. I'm not sure what that puts the percentage at, but the sls and the battary are what put it at 52/48 compared to the twitchy, regular e28s.
 

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I agree about the balance issue. I asked the mechanic to leave the accumulators and all the hardware for the SLS system intact since I figured the weight back there isn't much of an issue and makes future conversion back to stock that much easier. That said, I really don't know whether that weight helps or hurts the stability of the rear of the car. On one hand I do know that the rear of the car with the stock suspension is twitchy at the limit but I'm not sure how the front/rear weight bias contributes to that. If anything, I would think the additional weight makes it that much harder to get the rear back under control once it has stepped out. I would guess that if you really wanted to go fast, you would go for the weight reduction and then compensate for changes in balance with changes to the suspension. Anyway, ground control sent me the wrong height springs so it looks like it'll be a little while longer before the car comes back...
 

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ajw45 said:
I agree about the balance issue. I asked the mechanic to leave the accumulators and all the hardware for the SLS system intact since I figured the weight back there isn't much of an issue and makes future conversion back to stock that much easier. That said, I really don't know whether that weight helps or hurts the stability of the rear of the car. On one hand I do know that the rear of the car with the stock suspension is twitchy at the limit but I'm not sure how the front/rear weight bias contributes to that. If anything, I would think the additional weight makes it that much harder to get the rear back under control once it has stepped out. I would guess that if you really wanted to go fast, you would go for the weight reduction and then compensate for changes in balance with changes to the suspension. Anyway, ground control sent me the wrong height springs so it looks like it'll be a little while longer before the car comes back...
A few things, 1st, I read a quick reference to a euro e28 m5 not being that well balanced (sls was an option, I'm assuming that the car he tested didn't have one). 2nd, I've read about the other e28s being really twitch, and the near 50/50 balance is mainly what separated the m5 from the 535. 3rd, semi-trailing arms are fairly twitchy at the limit period, you get camber changes when you lift, that you don't want. Just tightening up the suspension would get rid of that problem. While a heavier rear is harder to control once it slips, with better balance, it's going to be slipping later, and it's going to be more near the front slipping point... leading me to the fact that the m5 had a bit of understeer built in stock, I'm not sure what you're talking about with the backend actually, unless you were doing crazy lifting midturn (I did that at my first track day, and the backend felt like it was starting to come around, but held on, maybe that's what you meant by twitchy). The reason I would try to keep sls is mainly that I don't want the car to understeer more, I don't want the back to be more likely to come out, and I know that it's hard to take away weight from the front short of replacing the seats.
 

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I agree on both accounts! My M5 definitely is biased towards understeer though not nearly as much as most new BMW's I've driven and yes, I've done the unfortunate newbie lift mid-turn which was not fun. Perhaps I'm just wanting for a little more rubber in the back but I just feel the M5's rear adhesion to be much more sensitive than other cars I've driven. In quick transitions like slaloms especially I find the rear to be very loose and quite a handful which I hope the GC and removal of the SLS will fix. For comparison, I can run faster slolom times in my 850i. It isn't a totally fair comparison with eibach springs, bilstein sports, custom swaybars, and much bigger rubber on the 8er but despite the 800+ lbs of additional weight over the M5 the 8 is flatter, more controllable, and very composed through transitions. Tht's what I want from my M5... and more.

I made a call and apparently one of the other mechanics pulled all the SLS hardware but for the hydraulic resevoir so I guess we'll get to see just how much weight the SLS system adds. Maybe I'll do a few runs with and without the spare at the next auto-x test and tune to see if I can find/feel a difference of an extra 50 or so pounds in the rear.

I'm certainly not a professional racer or an engineer but my approach is to drop weight where convenient/cost effective, then balance the rear. Gain as much adhesion in the front as possible given the front weight bias of the car, then balance the rear which can be done via swaybar settings, spring rate changes, or even adjusting the rake of the car. What do you think?
 

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ajw45 said:
I agree on both accounts! My M5 definitely is biased towards understeer though not nearly as much as most new BMW's I've driven and yes, I've done the unfortunate newbie lift mid-turn which was not fun. Perhaps I'm just wanting for a little more rubber in the back but I just feel the M5's rear adhesion to be much more sensitive than other cars I've driven. In quick transitions like slaloms especially I find the rear to be very loose and quite a handful which I hope the GC and removal of the SLS will fix. For comparison, I can run faster slolom times in my 850i. It isn't a totally fair comparison with eibach springs, bilstein sports, custom swaybars, and much bigger rubber on the 8er but despite the 800+ lbs of additional weight over the M5 the 8 is flatter, more controllable, and very composed through transitions. Tht's what I want from my M5... and more.

I made a call and apparently one of the other mechanics pulled all the SLS hardware but for the hydraulic resevoir so I guess we'll get to see just how much weight the SLS system adds. Maybe I'll do a few runs with and without the spare at the next auto-x test and tune to see if I can find/feel a difference of an extra 50 or so pounds in the rear.

I'm certainly not a professional racer or an engineer but my approach is to drop weight where convenient/cost effective, then balance the rear. Gain as much adhesion in the front as possible given the front weight bias of the car, then balance the rear which can be done via swaybar settings, spring rate changes, or even adjusting the rake of the car. What do you think?
I think that sounds like a good deal. It's just that from what I've learned about cars, having 50/50 is the best way to give the car neutral handling (I think bmw believes this too). You can do it with rubber and suspension and it seems like in the case of this car, when the alternative is keeping the car heavier, as in hurting acceleration and brake times, you should do it with rubber and suspension. I just don't like the time and money it takes to explore what works best with those two. After asking a question about handling in another forum, the answer was bushing replacement. Because I need to do this, I don't know what the car feels like with the suspension being like it's supposed to be, so my knowledge stops here. I do know that the semi trailing arm toe-in moves around with weight shifts and bumps in the road, and if the e28's rear end wasn't a little twitchy, there would be no reason to switch to the multilink that they switched to.

I just found out about US bumper "liposuction" where you take out the oil of the 5 mph bumpers to save weight. I've heard people say they are around 40-50 lbs each, so if you want a better balance, the front bumper seems to be a good way to lose weight.
 

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I've finally had the opportunity to put some miles on the new coilover suspension and I am very, very happy. The rear end feels completely different without the SLS... much more solid and stable. The coilovers have also tamed the way the rear of the m5 seemed to lift during quick transitions. I've not had a chance to really test the car at the limit so I can't yet comment on overrall balance (the sls components were removed weighing in at about 30 lbs) but the control provided by the new suspension is nothing short of amazing!
 

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ajw45 said:
I've finally had the opportunity to put some miles on the new coilover suspension and I am very, very happy.
Where did you get the coilovers? I have desperately been looking for suspension upgrade for my Euro E28 M5. DINAN suspension seem to be the only option so far.

- m
 
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