[Fubar]

Holy Jesus , Mary and Jeseph... you've turned on me too? ouich

 

[DLSJ5 M3]

Holy Jesus , Mary and Jeseph... you've turned on me too? ouich

Come on Fubar don't be so sensitive! I never turned on you.:15:

 

[Fubar]

I explained it all in my last post, but here's a quick summery of what I mean, I don't hear Q hitting the rev limiter AT ALL, and I don't see the follow up Vids from 3rd gear up to 6th, as an *** kicking they look pretty close through 3 gears, no doubt Q starts to pull, but he doesn't start to walk until very high speeds and when he does it's not by alot.

It's there, at some point when I feel like cutting the video to bring out the sound I will, for your benefit. Right now I feel like I have wasted way to much energy arguing with someone on the Internet. ouich

That's a funny vid of the minivan, I'm not sure how it's relevant, but I guess I should have been more specific about the mods, if the M6 had some bolt ons, headers, exhaust, pullies, ECU flash, etc. he'd got me at that time, that's all Bro, just showing you that it's probable and the runs were damn close, he got me in another run. I saw one today, sounded unreal, I can't open my car up right now though a new clutch just went in.

I think you do understand how it is relative, hence your reply.

They are beasts, I was just showing you, not trying to say every SC'd M3 will win, clearly they won't. With an ECU flash that car would get me good, the 997TT is my favorite car, to beat one was a great feeling, no doubt it's possible that if I ran into another one he might get me, all cars are not created equal, maybe he hit the rev limiter in all those runs. A friend has a Tip, we plan on doing some runs soon, I'll be sure to post those up.... ect... ect... ect...

You beaten me with your need to have the last word. This discussion seems fruitless so I will end it with this...

As I have stated before:

Nothing has changed on Scott's car. The car is not any better than it was the day he made that first post. Please reread the part where I wrote "nothing has changed." He is still looking for answers to his power questions and why he is having problems beating a stock M5. Ask him... I am not making this stuff up. He has presented ALL the information he compiles (whether it helps make his case or not) in hopes of finding some help (not just a pat on the back when things seem to go his way). As far as I know no one from V/F has called him back. Do you have any suggestions as to why he is having problems beating a stock M5? No because you believe he can.

See you guys later, I'm gona go take my medication. (Scott, post some vids, we are running out of material)

 

[DLSJ5 M3]

It's there, at some point when I feel like cutting the video to bring out the sound I will, for your benefit. Right now I feel like I have wasted way to much energy arguing with someone on the Internet. ouich




I think you do understand how it is relative, hence your reply.





You beaten me with your need to have the last word. This discussion seems fruitless so I will end it with this...

As I have stated before:

Nothing has changed on Scott's car. The car is not any better than it was the day he made that first post. Please reread the part where I wrote "nothing has changed." He is still looking for answers to his power questions and why he is having problems beating a stock M5. Ask him... I am not making this stuff up. He has presented ALL the information he compiles (whether it helps make his case or not) in hopes of finding some help (not just a pat on the back when things seem to go his way). As far as I know no one from V/F has called him back. Do you have any suggestions as to why he is having problems beating a stock M5? No because you believe he can.

See you guys later, I'm gona go take my medication. (Scott, post some vids, we are running out of material)

We are going in circles, I don't think anything I post registers with you anyway. I'm sure you feel that same about me, fair enough.

As far as the vids, you don't need to Edit anything, rofl, you can turn the volume up yourself, and you can plainly hear the motor and the shifts in all 4 vids, there's nothing there that indicates hitting the rev limiter "hard", even with the laughing, cheering, talking, etc. the are consistantly the same in every vid and the car never loses momentum, as you would from hitting the limiter, hard.

 

[darren_dallas]

Drew,

Not sure what your problem is, but I can only tell you so many times that Q was not shifting correctly before it's just comical that you choose not to believe me, Mark, or Scott. How do I know? Well from being in the car with Q and having to give him instructional training on the proper shift points for the M5. Q was hitting the rev limiter, as do many drivers of the M5 because they don't realize peak hp is made right around 7600 rpm. There is technically no need to wait until 8000+ to shift. Additionally, Q told me he thought the HUD provides you with information on when to shift gears by "flashing" Unfortunately, the flashing means you've already hit the rev limiter and are bouncing off it.

Aside from a slight bog down if you're in the car, which is very suttle, there is not a discernable queue to pick up on for me to tell you to watch for in the video.

I have no reason to stretch the truth and have always conducted myself with integrity on this board. I would ask you go through my post history and find otherwise.

Give it a rest. For some reason you see what you want to see in the videos, plus you only choose to believe specific videos. So be it.

Regards,

Darren

 

[///Marshall]

Drew,

Not sure what your problem is, but I can only tell you so many times that Q was not shifting correctly before it's just comical that you choose not to believe me, Mark, or Scott. How do I know? Well from being in the car with Q and having to give him instructional training on the proper shift points for the M5. Q was hitting the rev limiter, as do many drivers of the M5 because they don't realize peak hp is made right around 7600 rpm. There is technically no need to wait until 8000+ to shift. Additionally, Q told me he thought the HUD provides you with information on when to shift gears by "flashing" Unfortunately, the flashing means you've already hit the rev limiter and are bouncing off it.

Aside from a slight bog down if you're in the car, which is very suttle, there is not a discernable queue to pick up on for me to tell you to watch for in the video.

I have no reason to stretch the truth and have always conducted myself with integrity on this board. I would ask you go through my post history and find otherwise.

Give it a rest. For some reason you see what you want to see in the videos, plus you only choose to believe specific videos. So be it.

Regards,

Darren

You make a good point. I think many people believe that the flashing
HUD means shift when it actually means you've hit the limiter. I guess in
a sense it's telling you to shift but only because you are too late. Of
course at this point you're already losing power and there's a slight delay
before you get it back again. I think this confusion came from an early
review video that showed the HUD flashing.

I've found that now that my car is modded the HUD is a very poor
indicator of when to shift. Due to the delay I am constantly hitting
the rev limiter.

 

[DLSJ5 M3]

Drew,

Not sure what your problem is, but I can only tell you so many times that Q was not shifting correctly before it's just comical that you choose not to believe me, Mark, or Scott.

Darren, with all due respect any logical person can look at the vids and come to the conclusion that the rev limiter was not hit hard, did he grace it? Maybe I don't know, but you're making it sound bigger than it is.

How do I know? Well from being in the car with Q and having to give him instructional training on the proper shift points for the M5. Q was hitting the rev limiter, as do many drivers of the M5 because they don't realize peak hp is made right around 7600 rpm.

Actually peak HP according to BMW is at 7750RPM, and the rev limiter is 8250, I actually thought it was 8100, but you learn something new everyday. Unless Q was hitting 8251, he was not bouncing off the rev limiter HARD as you claim.

There is technically no need to wait until 8000+ to shift. Additionally, Q told me he thought the HUD provides you with information on when to shift gears by "flashing" Unfortunately, the flashing means you've already hit the rev limiter and are bouncing off it.

Not according to BMW and the info I found out about the HUD on this board. If it blinks Red I believe you hit the limiter, how do you know he was on those runs? It seems you had no idea while they were taking place.

http://www.m5board.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=43551

M-specific HUD​

The head-up display has been designed in such a way as to allow the driver to decide for himself at the touch of a button whether he wishes to receive standard information or specific M information projected into his line of vision. The M-specific display highlights the dynamic engine speed range, this signalising to the driver by means of shift-light function when the optimum shift point has been reached. This function has been derived directly from Formula 1 racing. The display also gives information pertaining to the gear currently engaged and vehicle speed.​

Seems like Q's and many other M5 owners thoughts were right about the lights, who in their right mind would not know if they were hitting or bouncing off the rev limiter? I don't think M5 owners are that stupid.

Aside from a slight bog down if you're in the car, which is very suttle, there is not a discernable queue to pick up on for me to tell you to watch for in the video.

There was ZERO bogging in any of those vids, and it's not subtle when you bounce off the rev limiter HARD.

I have no reason to stretch the truth and have always conducted myself with integrity on this board. I would ask you go through my post history and find otherwise.

I don't think your'e stretching the truth I think you believe what you're saying.

Now if you're saying that shifting at 7600 is better for him than 8250, than that's fine and completely different than hitting the rev limiter hard, I still wouldn't agree with that, because he's still making more past 7600 then his next shift point and he's in the gear longer. But just because he shifts higher than 7600 does not equate to bouncing off the rev limter hard.

Give it a rest. For some reason you see what you want to see in the videos, plus you only choose to believe specific videos. So be it.

Regards,

Darren

I think all the vids make sense and have no reason to question them and I NEVER did, I questioned the excuse you made for the reason the M3 did better in the 1st two vids, because of what I see and hear in the vid, it seems no one believes my vids, lol, I think it's more about that than reality.

The two vids that were about even until higher speeds, could have changed for various reasons. You seem to believe the 1st two must not make sense, so I'm guessing you thought he was hitting the rev limiter using the HUD display, while this is possible the video suggests otherwise, IMHO, that's all I'm saying, not calling you a liar or saying anything "fishy" is going on either.

Again we can agree to disagree, I'm not questioning your integrity I think you sincerely believe what you're saying, I just think you're wrong about this and I've followed your posts and vids, and have always enjoyed them. Did you guys really do 1000's of pulls and comparo's?

My advice to you is this, maybe you should try the Hud shift lights the way other M5 owners do, the way the F1 guys do according to BMW. I mean if you're trapping at 117MPH with all your mods, maybe you should try shifting like Q does, as he matched your 117 trap, hitting the rev limiter and all according to you, while he was stock.

 

[///Marshall]

Seems like Q's and many other M5 owners thoughts were right about the lights, who in their right mind would not know if they were hitting or bouncing off the rev limiter? I don't think M5 owners are that stupid.

I actually don't think this is correct. The only times I ever see it
flash is when it gets stuck in between gears and when you've hit
the rev limiter.

It's very easy to hit the rev limiter. The cars revs up extremely
fast. Trust me, if you wait for it to flash you're too late. The HUD
is not ideal for optimal shifting.

 

[DLSJ5 M3]

You make a good point. I think many people believe that the flashing
HUD means shift when it actually means you've hit the limiter. I guess in
a sense it's telling you to shift but only because you are too late. Of
course at this point you're already losing power and there's a slight delay
before you get it back again. I think this confusion came from an early
review video that showed the HUD flashing.

I've found that now that my car is modded the HUD is a very poor
indicator of when to shift. Due to the delay I am constantly hitting
the rev limiter.

Agreed, good points. I'll admit I don't know the HUD that much, Darren and the rest of you guys would. I just think any logical enthusiast knows when they're hitting the rev limiter hard and the way a motor sounds and what the car does is very noticible, not subtle.

Regardless, you're a good example you saw what it was doing and changed your shifting. I'm just not sure how Q would do so well for a stock car, I mean a 117 traps are not gonna happen if you're hitting the rev limiter on every shift, from what he said on M3forum, his car was fast for a stocker.

I've hit the rev limiter quite a few times on my SC'd M3, with the SC'r it gets there fast, lol, but it's very noticible.

I think we're going in circles anyway, no hard feelings, Darren, Mark, Scott you guys can have the last word. :cheers:

I see you're in Socal Marshall, let me know if you're down for any runs. I might be at that meet on the 20th in Huntington Beach as well.

 

[darren_dallas]

Drew,

I'm simply going off what Q told me and I could feel the car sort of stall out at the higher RPM.

We're just relaying what Q told me and what I experienced in the car.

I on the other hand use the analog tach to switch gears and never use the head except in basic driving, if even then.

Regardless, given the fact I was there and participated I'm in a much better position to actually tell you what happened compared to your ability (or inability) to infer what is happening in the video.

Keep living in your dream world Drew, it's obviously a beautiful state of mind for you.

Cheers,

Darren

 

[///Marshall]

Agreed, good points. I'll admit I don't know the HUD that much, Darren and the rest of you guys would. I just think any logical enthusiast knows when they're hitting the rev limiter hard and the way a motor sounds and what the car does is very noticible, not subtle.

Regardless, you're a good example you saw what it was doing and changed your shifting. I'm just not sure how Q would do so well for a stock car, I mean a 117 traps are not gonna happen if you're hitting the rev limiter on every shift, from what he said on M3forum, his car was fast for a stocker.

I've hit the rev limiter quite a few times on my SC'd M3, with the SC'r it gets there fast, lol, but it's very noticible.

I think we're going in circles anyway, no hard feelings, Darren, Mark, Scott you guys can have the last word. :cheers:

I see you're in Socal Marshall, let me know if you're down for any runs. I might be at that meet on the 20th in Huntington Beach as well.

I like the HUD a lot. I couldn't imagine the car without it. The bad
thing about it though is that it doesn't give you your rpms in a numerical
form. I'm not sure why they opted for the color ramp. I'd rather see
numbers. Perhaps they figured it's easier to register color vs numbers?

I've been trying to reteach myself to drive by tach and sound again.
Sound is a bit tricky as I've been modifying my car so much everything
seems to change.

Over the next few months I'm looking to do several more mods. I've been
looking for a car as a baseline for some 30-xxx runs. I was planning
on "dragging" Kenny up or meet him halfway somewhere for some
safe runs. I'm pretty sure he's been itching to get a shot at me
since I smack him around a bit on the dyno! :7: Maybe we can all get
together for some comparison runs.

:cheers:

 

[///WALL_ST]

Holy Jesus , Mary and Jeseph... you've turned on me too? ouich

Mark,

Not turning on you man, just stating up the facts. The Ford GT is a great car and all but it basically looks faster than it is. Also I have some video documentation to back up my info.

ok, kidding aside, here's the runs with both cars WOT.

 

[keang24]

Oh, cheap shots on dyno don't count, steve:nono: lol:hihi:

Hope to see you on 20th. I have met Drew and would be fun for you to run against him, Mike,and others.

You MUST find some ways/whatever excuse to be at the meet on 20th.grrrrrrr

P.S. About the HUD, it's nice to have on daily driving. But when something on the line or nerve kick in, it's so useless(at least for me). It so easy to bounce of the rev. When rely to HUD, it's either too early or too late when shifting. Sometime even analog tach, if you try to shift at 8200-8250rpm, usually it's too late and bounce off the rev too that why I raised mine to 8500rpm to spare/minimize my error.

... I was planning
on "dragging" Kenny up or meet him halfway somewhere for some
safe runs. I'm pretty sure he's been itching to get a shot at me
since I smack him around a bit on the dyno! :7: Maybe we can all get
together for some comparison runs
:cheers:

 

[///Marshall]

Oh, cheap shots on dyno don't count, steve:nono: lol:hihi:

Hope to see you on 20th. I have met Drew and would be fun for you to run against him.

You MUST find some ways/whatever excuse to be at the meet on 20th.grrrrrrr

Sorry, couldn't help myself. :haha:
I hear you. I'll try to be out there on the 20th.

 

[DLSJ5 M3]

I like the HUD a lot. I couldn't imagine the car without it. The bad
thing about it though is that it doesn't give you your rpms in a numerical
form. I'm not sure why they opted for the color ramp. I'd rather see
numbers. Perhaps they figured it's easier to register color vs numbers?

I've been trying to reteach myself to drive by tach and sound again.
Sound is a bit tricky as I've been modifying my car so much everything
seems to change.

Over the next few months I'm looking to do several more mods. I've been
looking for a car as a baseline for some 30-xxx runs. I was planning
on "dragging" Kenny up or meet him halfway somewhere for some
safe runs. I'm pretty sure he's been itching to get a shot at me
since I smack him around a bit on the dyno! :7: Maybe we can all get
together for some comparison runs.

:cheers:

Sounds like fun, let's plan on it. I know Kenny is down in San Diego, where are you in Socal?

 

[DLSJ5 M3]

Drew,

I'm simply going off what Q told me and I could feel the car sort of stall out at the higher RPM.

We're just relaying what Q told me and what I experienced in the car.

I on the other hand use the analog tach to switch gears and never use the head except in basic driving, if even then.

Regardless, given the fact I was there and participated I'm in a much better position to actually tell you what happened compared to your ability (or inability) to infer what is happening in the video.

Keep living in your dream world Drew, it's obviously a beautiful state of mind for you.

Cheers,

Darren

Sorry, I'm going back on my word, lol.

Fair enough Darren, if I questioned your integrity I apologize Bro, keep doing your comparo vids, in all sincerity, I throughly enjoy them and have never questioned the results, including these recent runs with Scott, just the excuses made about the rev limiter, I didn't buy that one bit.

This dream world you're referring too, not sure what that means but I'll take that as you being frustrated.

11.5 at 123MPH and pulling on 997TT's, for me it's a reality Darren, for you it's still a dream.

 

[DLSJ5 M3]

Mark,

Not turning on you man, just stating up the facts. The Ford GT is a great car and all but it basically looks faster than it is. Also I have some video documentation to back up my info.

Very funny Scott you almost got me, lol, I'll take that as little friendly jab based on earlier comments, lol, but please don't take what I said out of context. I didn't know Mark's Ford GT was modded with more boost, and the fire extinguisher adds ALOT of power , no doubt that thing was GONE, now that's what I would call a crushing, 1 gear, gone. Very impressive Mark! :cheers:

What does he make to the wheels with those mods, smaller pulley, etc.? Stock one's trap about the same as C6 Z06's, 122 - 130, which is what I was referring too possibly running close with a STOCK one, based on my results at the track. A modded Z06 (Exhaust) was there that day as well, , he hit 12.2 at 122MPH, but I could be in la la land against the ford GT in the 1/4 mile, but they say traps don't lie. I'll see if I can find a stock one to run, maybe it will humble me up. I bet Mark traps high 130's, are you upset that you couldn't hang.

 

[///WALL_ST]

Sorry, I'm going back on my word, lol.

Fair enough Darren, if I questioned your integrity I apologize Bro, keep doing your comparo vids, in all sincerity, I throughly enjoy them and have never questioned the results, including these recent runs with Scott, just the excuses made about the rev limiter, I didn't buy that one bit.

This dream world you're referring too, not sure what that means but I'll take that as you being frustrated.

11.5 at 123MPH and pulling on 997TT's, for me it's a reality Darren, for you it's still a dream.

Drew,

I was there, Darren was there, Quninntin was driving the M5. All three of us have corroborated the events. (Q is in Miami as we speak at an M driving school, which is well overdue [sorry Q]). What the videos illustrate is an M5 losing, then beating the VF M3. The difference was a quick shifting tutorial by Darren. I will argue that even in the vids with Q beating me, he is far from utilizing the full potential of the car. When Darren gets back in town we will film some vids of my VF M3 vs my stock M5. I will drive my M3 (which after 4 years I hope you will trust my ability) and I will have Darren drive my stock M5. We will put one passenger in each vehicle for a fair comparison. I will be happy to post up the results (on the M5board, as well as the M3Forum) of both cars being driven to their potential so we can delete any questions you have as to driver ability and any resulting effect.

The VF Stage 2 car puts down 470 whp on 91 octane in Anaheim, CA on a Dynojet under extremely strict conditions. If you think this car is putting down that whp while you are driving down the road you need to go back and ask Nik to explain it you.

Also for future reference perhaps it would be less time consuming for you to offer a list of stock vehicles that the VF M3 can't beat (if there are any), than feeling compelled to argue about the rest of the cars that (according to your videos) it can. :dunno:

 

[DLSJ5 M3]

Drew,

I was there, Darren was there, Quninntin was driving the M5. All three of us have corroborated the events. (Q is in Miami as we speak at an M driving school, which is well overdue [sorry Q]). What the videos illustrate is an M5 losing, then beating the VF M3. The difference was a quick shifting tutorial by Darren. I will argue that even in the vids with Q beating me, he is far from utilizing the full potential of the car. When Darren gets back in town we will film some vids of my VF M3 vs my stock M5. I will drive my M3 (which after 4 years I hope you will trust my ability) and I will have Darren drive my stock M5. We will put one passenger in each vehicle for a fair comparison. I will be happy to post up the results (on the M5board, as well as the M3Forum) of both cars being driven to their potential so we can delete any questions you have as to driver ability and any resulting effect.

Why you choose now to back them up I don't know, took you long enough, lol, regardless those vids satisfy me, I think you did very well, you make it sound like they pulled on you by BLth's. Even though you weren't in Q's car, if you say Q hit the rev limiter than so be it, it's pointless to keep going now that part of the discussion has ran it's course, when Q gets back I'm positive he'll corroborate that as well.

The VF Stage 2 car puts down 470 whp on 91 octane in Anaheim, CA on a Dynojet under extremely strict conditions. If you think this car is putting down that whp while you are driving down the road you need to go back and ask Nik to explain it you.

You're still learning about dyno's so it makes sense you're confused, again peak power is not king, the power on the M3 is very linear, the M5 is at times making more power than you. The VF Stage 2 also puts down 489WHP at some dynojet in Marietta, Georgia as well, the kit just came out, give it some time, you'll see more #'s. I don't know why your car can't pull on M5's on every single run, I'm sorry Bro, maybe you should get the HPF kit and run race fuel, or meth, then you'll get your win.

There's a couple things I did notice from your M3 vs. M5 challange on the dynojet. The Plot on your 453WHP M3 cuts out at roughly 7700 RPM and I don't know why, never seen that on other dyno charts, if you could go to 8K there's a good 15-20WHP there.

ALSO and this would debunk this rev limit stuff as a major factor of why Q got you on the next round, on each run on the DJ your car is loosing power, why I don't know, but it's obvious you have a heatsoak issue, that would make more sense as to why you beat the M5 in the 1st two runs vs. the next ones where Q eventually pulled. Or is that theory less pragmatic than the rev limit stuff?

Also for future reference perhaps it would be less time consuming for you to offer a list of stock vehicles that the VF M3 can't beat (if there are any), than feeling compelled to argue about the rest of the cars that (according to your videos) it can. :dunno:

No idea what that means, or if it's even rational, a list WTF, I have no idea, I have not ran every car out there, but at times I make hypothectical guesses based on good info, mostly 1/4 mile traps, NOT dyno's like you guys obsessively do, and at times I've been wrong, but mostly right when comparing traps and how I'll do.

I post up my results, that's what happened, been doing it for a good while now, plenty of back up from the people there, there's never been any question or doubt from anyone but you and the Dallas crew when your M3 didn't quite deliver what you wanted it too and what that is I'm still not sure.

My 1/4 mile run was backed up by 335I and AMG owners who were there that day in Famoso CA, timeslips for you to gander at too, how about we do this? I'll believe your results if you believe mine? It's obvious your dyno's show something is awry, you're not reaching the rev limit and you have a heatsoak issue.

 

[///WALL_ST]

Why you choose now to back them up I don't know, took you long enough, lol, regardless those vids satisfy me, I think you did very well, you make it sound like they pulled on you by BLth's. Even though you weren't in Q's car, if you say Q hit the rev limiter than so be it, it's pointless to keep going now that part of the discussion has ran it's course, when Q gets back I'm positive he'll corroborate that as well.



You're still learning about dyno's so it makes sense you're confused, again peak power is not king, the power on the M3 is very linear, the M5 is at times making more power than you. The VF Stage 2 also puts down 489WHP at some dynojet in Marietta, Georgia as well, the kit just came out, give it some time, you'll see more #'s. I don't know why your car can't pull on M5's on every single run, I'm sorry Bro, maybe you should get the HPF kit and run race fuel, or meth, then you'll get your win.

There's a couple things I did notice from your M3 vs. M5 challange on the dynojet. The Plot on your 453WHP M3 cuts out at roughly 7700 RPM and I don't know why, never seen that on other dyno charts, if you could go to 8K there's a good 15-20WHP there.

ALSO and this would debunk this rev limit stuff as a major factor of why Q got you on the next round, on each run on the DJ your car is loosing power, why I don't know, but it's obvious you have a heatsoak issue, that would make more sense as to why you beat the M5 in the 1st two runs vs. the next ones where Q eventually pulled. Or is that theory less pragmatic than the rev limit stuff?



No idea what that means, or if it's even rational, a list WTF, I have no idea, I have not ran every car out there, but at times I make hypothectical guesses based on good info, mostly 1/4 mile traps, NOT dyno's like you guys obsessively do, and at times I've been wrong, but mostly right when comparing traps and how I'll do.

I post up my results, that's what happened, been doing it for a good while now, plenty of back up from the people there, there's never been any question or doubt from anyone but you and the Dallas crew when your M3 didn't quite deliver what you wanted it too and what that is I'm still not sure.

My 1/4 mile run was backed up by 335I and AMG owners who were there that day in Famoso CA, timeslips for you to gander at too, how about we do this? I'll believe your results if you believe mine? It's obvious your dyno's show something is awry, you're not reaching the rev limit and you have a heatsoak issue.

Drew,

Email me your dyno plots from 3 consecutive pulls within 5 minutes and we can talk.