[CSBM5]

Tonight at the BMW CCA raffle drawing, Larry Koch, BMWNA M-brand manager said that he has driven the 6-spd E60 M5 and raced against the SMGIII car. I got the impression he was talking about either a long straight on a test track or at an airport-type venue. It was hard to hear as there was lots of noise in the room (vendor reception area). In any event, paraphrasing his words, he said that he was shifting as fast as he could but the SMGIII car just walked away from him and that by the time he got to the speed limiter it was practically out of sight. (he actually said it was "like a 1/4 mile away").

I didn't get a chance to talk with him last night, but I hope to get some time on Friday to speak with him about it, so I'll post back then. He did confirm that it will be available for the 2007 model year. The message was just don't expect it to be as fast as the SMGIII car.

With regard to the E90 M3...he said that here in the USA, if you bought a new E46 M3 now on a "30-month lease", you should be timed just about right to swap into the new one.

Cheers,
Chuck

 

[freddydi]

Tonight at the BMW CCA raffle drawing, Larry Koch, BMWNA M-brand manager said that he has driven the 6-spd E60 M5 and raced against the SMGIII car. I got the impression he was talking about either a long straight on a test track or at an airport-type venue. It was hard to hear as there was lots of noise in the room (vendor reception area). In any event, paraphrasing his words, he said that he was shifting as fast as he could but the SMGIII car just walked away from him and that by the time he got to the speed limiter it was practically out of sight. (he actually said it was "like a 1/4 mile away").

Yeah, but he probably felt so "connected" to his car while the SMG pulled away... hiha

of course, im just pulling the chains of the 6-speed holdouts!

 

[MEnthusiast]

Thanks for the report!

A question is also did the SMG car use its LC and did he do a burn out type launch? On one hand, this is not entirely fair since LC is optimized already and he probably was driving this for the first time in 6 speed variant; on the other hand, if you had a SMG car and some guy (or gal) just got their 6 speed M5 and pulled up next to you it would probably be the same conditions. I can tell you I was very pleasantly surprised by the SMGIII transmission. I still enjoy a good stick shift, but on this car, given how it was designed, I think I would advise the SMGIII unless you truly love the stick shift. I am sure BMW M will not disappoint and the stick will be good.

 

[Wolverine]

This really isn't surprising if the gear ratios are higher. You're basically transmitting less torque to the wheels through part of the rev range with the 6sp just because you have fewer gears. Anyone know what the gearing is?

 

[m5floyd]

I would bet 3.32 or around that ratio.

FLOYD

This really isn't surprising if the gear ratios are higher. You're basically transmitting less torque to the wheels through part of the rev range with the 6sp just because you have fewer gears. Anyone know what the gearing is?

 

[MLOCO]

If you really think BMW will let the 6sp version get its doors blown off by the smg3 you ARE NOT a true bemmer fan. Remember BMW still needs to make its top M faster/quicker/more Alive than MB/RS6. So for those of us waiting, WE will wait and we will see the final numbers.. Worst case I can still get a 07 SMG. :biggrin:

 

[bernhtp]

The SMG benefits from an extra gear resulting in a smaller RPM drop on shifts and faster shifts. However, I doubt this would result in the dramatic differences reported here, and my bet is this story was leaked out to push the SMG, which is a strategic and differentiating BMW performance technology.

Tom

 

[Gustav]

Could be hmmm

my bet is this story was leaked out to push the SMG, which is a strategic and differentiating BMW performance technology.
Tom

 

[Wolverine]

I would bet 3.32 or around that ratio.

FLOYD

Sorry, I meant the individual gears. I imagine they'll they keep the same differential.

If they kept the first 5 gears the same, I'll bet the manual will get the same or possibly better times in carmag testing. That's because a good driver can always get a better launch with a manual than an smg. Perhaps the SMG III is that much better than the SMG II, but with the 'dumbing down' of the LC for the US cars, I doubt it.

 

[stominovich]

My bet - we never see a 6 speed manual

BMW M will say - there was just too much performance lost with the 6 speed and the car was built around 7 speeds. Too much hedging on this already...

 

[m_five]

and my bet is this story was leaked out to push the SMG, which is a strategic and differentiating BMW performance technology.

Tom

The cynic in me thinks they did it because they don't any more US buyers waiting for the manual trans in MY07 than already have passed on their MY06 build slots.

 

[vndkshn]

Yeah, the whole thing sounds a bit off. 1/4 mile? I doubt it. That would make the E60 M5 with manual slower than the E39 M5. This definitely sounds like BMWNA trying to get people to buy the current cars. I think they have seen the handwriting on the wall with so many people dropping off the lists, many using the same reason... a manual.

 

[stominovich]

I think this "dropping of the list" is a bit exagerated. We have not had one car delivered in the U.S. and the demand for SMG has diminished? I think the 6-speed contingent is going a bit overboard. They can sell SMG M5s for the next 4 years without worrying about a 6 speed. Demand is high for this car - given the fact it costs 90K. The audience for this car is SMALL.

 

[vndkshn]

Then explain why nobody in the top 10 spots at the dealer that I have my spot with is taking their car? They are not even sure that their first car is sold. Cars 2 and 3 went to "people in the high teens on the list". So I don't think it is overboard or exagerated. I don't think the demand for SMG diminished, it not have been there from the start. I also find it interesting that dealers that were demanding huge premiums are backing away from them and offering the cars at or close to MSRP.

 

[celsius]

C'mon guys, please. Let's be real.

There is no less demand for this car. People dropping off lists?!! B.S! The lists are still huge. In Southern california if you ain't on a list now then maybe you'll see a car by next christmass. The Santa Monica dealer is charging 30k over sticker and I've heard that's a DISCOUNT to other dealers around here.

The reality is that this group is on the bleeding edge of the enthusiast market and this car is at the bottom end of the high-end performance car bracket. What happens here on the board is not in any way indicative of what happens out in the market (US or otherwise) nor does it represent what the average M5 consumer wants.

Put it this way, my local dealer is marking the car up more than ANY BMW to date. AND PEOPLE ARE BUYING IT!!! This does not suggest that BMW can't sell an M5 with an SMG and/or that they made any kind of mistake not offering a clutch pedal out of the box.

The major reason they are offering a clutch pedal is because they heard that the MEDIA (the automotive press) was knocking the car for not having one. I have a pal who works in one of the LA BMW design labs who told me this.

Guess who runs the automotive press??!!!!! Guys on the "bleeding edge" - guys like you reading this post - old (or only old-sounding) men brimming with too much nostalgia to know what the REAL customer wants.

BMW fears the the _media_ because they have power. This happens in my buisness (video games), in the movie biz. Everywhere. The Media is filled with UBERenthusiasts who with every year of tenure creep farther and farther out of touch with the market's real desires.

The number of people who will "track" the M5 this year could be counted with the cigarettes in a pack of Camels.

I read a post a while back that suggested that this board was responsible for the inclusion of the clutch pedal. That's quite frankly laughable.

SMG bashing is fine. Dillusional conspiracy thories in which BMW publicly bashes their own cars to satisfy some deep personal gripe with the M5Board and those wacky yanks is lunacy. BMW executives are annually renumerated handsomely (bounsed with big BUCKS) for selling cars.

To come full circle - please, let's be real.

Celsius :typing:

PS. Put it this way - If you think BMW want's you to _think_ that the manual is slower... they have the power to make it true.

 

[e60beast]

celsius,

very true.

Couldnt have said it better myself!...
:viking:

 

[stominovich]

If people are dropping off - it is most likely because of the cost. We are not talking about a $45K car. All said and done - taxes and tags you are looking at $90+K. People get cold feet...

 

[desualt]

If people are dropping off - it is most likely because of the cost. We are not talking about a $45K car. All said and done - taxes and tags you are looking at $90+K. People get cold feet...

True, plus it is easier to say that you want a clutch pedal when none is offered than say anything else $wise, to bail out.

 

[freddydi]

True, plus it is easier to say that you want a clutch pedal when none is offered than say anything else $wise, to bail out.

haha very true. I doubt very highly that *many* people have dropped out solely because it has an SMGIII. While some actually may, the majority won't. I think most M5 owners would rather have the SMGIII. It is after all, a daily driver for many. SMGIII just makes more sense. I think BMW agrees.

 

[Leadfoot]

Nicely done, Celsius:cheers: