BMW M5 Forum and M6 Forums banner

1 - 20 of 22 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
77 Posts
Quick condensed version for UK and US board members:

'Kerbside' car dealer ('Autobahnstormers') in Lancashire buys Estoril blue M5 at auction which is registered on plate no. M5 DFJ. Advertises it for sale on well known UK car forum describing it, for example, as "utterly pristine", "cannot be faulted", yadda, yadda + more over blown sales copy.

All normal car trade BS so far, so nothing new.

However, he then posts pictures in the ad of a different E39 M5, same colour, that had been through his hands earlier in the year. Not the car he's actually trying to sell right now.

Here's the ad:

Used 2001 BMW M5 M5 for sale in Lancashire | Pistonheads

The actual car the prospective buyer goes to see definitely not as described & not the same car as in the ad! Potential buyer describes his experiences this way:

"My brother and I set out at 9:30am for our 2hr and bit commute and when we get there on first impression the car looks very nice but at this point we haven't got out of my car. I get out the car and notice that there are a couple of aftermarket decals silver if my memory serves me right running through the middle of the car on both sides. I thought ok maybe I didn't notice them in the pictures but I did ask the question to which Ben replies this car isn't the same car featured in the pictures that was another car he had a while ago but because this was Estoril blue he used the pictures of that one. At no point did he tell me over the phone that the car I was going to view wasn't the car in the advert.

So my brother and I proceed to have a look at the bodywork and we find the following:

Rust on both sills
Rust on the boot lid were you have the number plate lights.
Rust above the rear boot where you have the bung
Over spray on the rear number plate light and boot lock
Front end needed a respray
The body work needed a good clay and detail
Interior needed a good clean and the boot looked like it had never been valeted
At this point I'm not happy to say the least so rather than kicking off with him we decide to leave, I get home and sent if a simple but effective message just in case if he decides to sell any more cars:

'It's probably worthwhile telling someone before they set off for a 5hr round trip that the car they saw in the advert isn't the car been viewed. Also you need to have a good look round the car before telling someone there is no rust on the car. Finally no point describing the car as mint when it quite clearly isn't because people usually have their eyes open when viewing a car'."


B10 Bomber - yes, you. You're out there somewhere on this forum and you've been outed, mate.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
30 Posts
I have recently bought a car from this dealer. All I will say is that it has been frustrating up till now - unfortunately I bought with rose tinted specs and will more than likely be coughing up to have wrongs put right :rolleyes: - I love the car but paid probably way too much considering its pitfalls and I still await the FBMWSH...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
318 Posts
Absolute disgrace.
A thought - Pistonheads have a very good reputation as a means of buying and selling decent cars; I doubt if they want to be knowingly associated with a fraudulent trader (and knowingly giving misleading information and photos claiming to be of the car for sale when in fact of a different vehicle is fraudulent trading.) Have you tried sending them a copy of what you've posted here?
Plus Trading Standards - not too difficult to find their contact details and send them a complaint.

Sorry to hear about your wasted trip and frustrations.

Another thought for member D6 - I believe it's possible to obtain the official service records through the BMW dealer network (maybe someone can confirm), which will prove the service history. If they're not what was claimed, and the full history was a significant reason for your buying that vehicle, you also have a case worth raising with Trading Standards - when the same trader comes across their radar more than once they take more notice.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
30 Posts
Absolute disgrace.

Another thought for member D6 - I believe it's possible to obtain the official service records through the BMW dealer network (maybe someone can confirm), which will prove the service history. If they're not what was claimed, and the full history was a significant reason for your buying that vehicle, you also have a case worth raising with Trading Standards - when the same trader comes across their radar more than once they take more notice.
I spoke to the premium call centre who confirmed which garages the car had been with (including dates and mileages) however, other than warranty work they did not offer much in terms of information. I am relatively happy that the car has been maintained however, I wanted a stamped book to keep with the car (just because I am anal with things like that). Ben has been sorting a replacement hwoever, I am still waiting.

As for trading standards - I have to take blame for some of my issues due to lack of diligence.

However, mine was also advertised rust free but on inspection I found some bubbles on the rear arch (O/S), a bit on the front O/S jack point and the standard black trim in and around the windows. There was overspray on one of the rear wings and evidence of some sill repair on the drivers side (hoping that if that was rust that it has been dealt with properly) and evidence of boot (trunk) lid repair. Obviously I used these as negotiating points and got a good amount off his original asking price however, had I noticed other issues (or taken an independent inspector as mentioned in another post) I would have either walked away or (and more likely considering the spec, mileage and look of the car) negotiated even more off the asking price (whether he would have dropped, who knows?). So for me to report to trading standards would be uncuth (in my opinion) as I should have picked up on things prior to buying - I just could resist and it was/is a beautiful machine!

Furthermore, in my experience I'll say Ben has been helpful since and we are approaching 2 months since I bought the car. Luckily for me I live relatively round the corner from Ben so its not as much hassle as for the guy in the story (travelling down from Scotland)... However, this said he should not be using pictures of another car to sell a less clean example. I think he know's he is asking top money for cars that are not always up to the standard that 'topmoneycars' are expected to be, I'd also say that he needs to becareful with this because one day he might just sell one of these 'topmoneycars', that is not top money standard, to the wrong person and that is a dangerous game especially when operating from your parents house.....hmmm
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
12,398 Posts
Anyone have VIN numbers to post? That way this thread will come up if anyone googles the vin...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,386 Posts
Pretty much means the total cost of repair would be more than the current value of the car.

The issue with buying and selling niche cars, is more often than not you are trying to sell to a niche market and clientele also.

That clientele is likely to be clued up on those cars, history of and rare ones, what to look for and general whats and hows of everything.

If they see a seller trying to forge a business in the market they are so interested in, it doesn't take long for reputations to be made or ruined by the conduct of said sellers.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
257 Posts
Category C and D are the most common ones to see for sale. A category D car is one (like mine) which just needed parts, the cost of which added up to more than the value of the car. Mine needed a bonnet, both bumpers, a wing and a headlight after being gently squeezed in a chain collision of 4 or 5 cars. Cat D cars are normally fine and safe, but you have to keep an eye out for poor fitment of cheaper replacement parts, or badly re-sprayed panels like my previously red bootlid from a 520i!

Category C is a bit more worrying - it indicates more major damage, normally some bent chassis components, which need proper mechanical work to rectify. In that case you want to know more about what happened to the car, what was damaged and how it was replaced and repaired.

Both categories can still be good, solid, beautiful cars, but only if the work's been done properly. Sadly there are plenty of people out there who buy these broken cars for peanuts, get some untrained idiots who have a welder and some spray paint to make it look vaguely OK to the brief inspection, and sell them for as high a profit as they can.

This car is TRAGIC though - that is absolutely perfect in my eyes, I am completely in love with the colour, seats, the trim. Such a shame it had a smash :-(
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,386 Posts
That's not correct. The Category C or D doesn't denote anything about chassis vs simple body damage, its categorized purely from a cost perspective.

A cat D will have cost enough for the insurance to write off, but the repair value would not have come to more than the cars market value

A cat C will have cost more to repair than the cars market value.

For example, insurers wouldn't pay out in repairs to the tune of £5000 if the car was only worth £6000, so although its less than its market value it would make more sense to write it off, and it would be given a CAT D moniker.

If that same car had an accident and cost £6500 to repair, it gets written off with a CAT D moniker


As a side note, you also have to remember that it depends on when in its life it was declared a CAT C/D by insurance. Early on in its life it would indicate a more substantial repair, as the car would have been worth more at that time. Fast forward that same car to when its 12 years old, its worth a lot less, so a simple bonnet/wing/bumper job would still come to the same amount at an insurance approved garage, but because the car is worth a lot less, its very likely it would fall into a category C/D for only minor panel damage.

I had an E30 325I in 2004 that suffered a bump as such and was categorized as a Cat C, even though it only needed a wing, fron t bumper and front valance.

Here's a lonk that explains cat c and d well

Cat D and Cat C cars: insurance write-offs explained | Auto Express
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
30 Posts
This Cat C is supposedly stolen / recovered… does that mean that the person who owned it, when it was stolen, was paid the full amount of the car value + additional costs (i.e. a hire car, recovery cost etc) or does it mean it was recovered but recovered damaged beyond economical repair?<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:eek:ffice:eek:ffice" /><o:p></o:p>
<o:p> </o:p>
Is the seller legally obligated to declare it as a Cat C?<o:p></o:p>
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
14 Posts
Update, this guy has returned as a new company called GERMANia

Now he is selling an "Individual" E39 M5 in Estoril that left the factory as Carbon Black. But apparently it is a mistake, despite the VIN saying otherwise.

This guy is a complete crook.
 
1 - 20 of 22 Posts
Top